Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:01 pm

TripTrip wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote: For Corps and Evidence, is there anyone who also needs to be ranked 1/2 in order to have a realistic chance at getting in?

Since neither Hanson nor Subramanian are teaching Corps next year, Clark will be more competitive than normal.


I don't think you will need to rank Clark 1 or 2 to get his corporations class, though.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:22 pm

TripTrip wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote: For Corps and Evidence, is there anyone who also needs to be ranked 1/2 in order to have a realistic chance at getting in?

Since neither Hanson nor Subramanian are teaching Corps next year, Clark will be more competitive than normal.


I understand Hanson and Subramian were the crowd favorites. Without them teaching, would it be fair to assume most people will split relatively evenly between the other Corps profs, thus I could get away with pref'ing the Corps classes around 5-8? Maybe a little higher for Clark since he seems to have somewhat of a fan base.

Also, thoughts on Fallon for FedCourts?

Thanks guys.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:29 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote: For Corps and Evidence, is there anyone who also needs to be ranked 1/2 in order to have a realistic chance at getting in?

Since neither Hanson nor Subramanian are teaching Corps next year, Clark will be more competitive than normal.


I understand Hanson and Subramian were the crowd favorites. Without them teaching, would it be fair to assume most people will split relatively evenly between the other Corps profs, thus I could get away with pref'ing the Corps classes around 5-8? Maybe a little higher for Clark since he seems to have somewhat of a fan base.

Also, thoughts on Fallon for FedCourts?

Thanks guys.


I've heard great things about Fallon. He was highly recommended to me.

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:22 pm

I'm sure it's been asked in varying forms, but more responses are always helpful. Who to take for Con Law?

Feldman 1A vs. Feldman 14A vs. Klarman 14A vs. Minow 14A?

While we're at it, might as well ask how people feel about:

Whiting for Evidence
Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW
Sunstein vs. Stephenson for Admin Law
Manning vs. Fallon for Fed Courts

Thanks!

ETA: Say, you're really interested in getting a good LOR for clerkships. Would you go after the Prof with the bigger name? The one who knows more judges? Or the one more open to building relationships with students?

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:33 pm

Warren 6th...Is that something that is so pointless I may as well not put it because I'm not gonna get it and it is just going to decrease the chance I get my 7th choice? How high does Warren have to be? 1 or 2?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:34 pm

wert3813 wrote:Warren 6th...Is that something that is so pointless I may as well not put it because I'm not gonna get it and it is just going to decrease the chance I get my 7th choice? How high does Warren have to be? 1 or 2?


Well it might put you higher up on the waitlist. That's something to think about too.

As an aside, not having to sign up for classes ever again is a really awesome feeling.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:06 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:I'm sure it's been asked in varying forms, but more responses are always helpful. Who to take for Con Law?

Feldman 1A vs. Feldman 14A vs. Klarman 14A vs. Minow 14A?

While we're at it, might as well ask how people feel about:

Whiting for Evidence
Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW
Sunstein vs. Stephenson for Admin Law
Manning vs. Fallon for Fed Courts

Thanks!

ETA: Say, you're really interested in getting a good LOR for clerkships. Would you go after the Prof with the bigger name? The one who knows more judges? Or the one more open to building relationships with students?

In case you haven't already looked these ones up, they're on HLS Dope:

http://hlsdope.org/course-catalog
Last edited by TripTrip on Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:31 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW


I don't think comparing profs here really makes sense because for TAW you're not mostly listening to lecture or having class led by the main instructor. Each day you have 2 hours with your small group leader, for 2 hours with your large group leader, and 2 more hours watching star attorneys demo various skills. You'll hear a little bit from Sullivan or Ogletree, but actually not much.

The real question is, do you want to take TAW in the fall or winter? In the winter you get to really concentrate on the course without the distraction of other classes or student groups, so you might get more out of it. Also, it's 3 credits, which is one more than you're required to take in the winter, so in theory you could slightly relax your course load in fall or spring. On the other hand, you're giving up the opportunity to travel or relax, as many of your classmates will be doing for J-term.

Taking it in the fall is crazy stressful because you're trying to balance it with all your normal September commitments. But then of course you get to relax for the rest of the semester because you're only taking two more classes. Also, if you haven't taken evidence yet or are taking it concurrently, that can be quite a challenge because the class assumes you're familiar with what's hearsay, rules for evidence of character and past bad acts, etc.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:35 pm

despina wrote:
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW


I don't think comparing profs here really makes sense because for TAW you're not mostly listening to lecture or having class led by the main instructor. Each day you have 2 hours with your small group leader, for 2 hours with your large group leader, and 2 more hours watching star attorneys demo various skills. You'll hear a little bit from Sullivan or Ogletree, but actually not much.

The real question is, do you want to take TAW in the fall or winter? In the winter you get to really concentrate on the course without the distraction of other classes or student groups, so you might get more out of it. Also, it's 3 credits, which is one more than you're required to take in the winter, so in theory you could slightly relax your course load in fall or spring. On the other hand, you're giving up the opportunity to travel or relax, as many of your classmates will be doing for J-term.

Taking it in the fall is crazy stressful because you're trying to balance it with all your normal September commitments. But then of course you get to relax for the rest of the semester because you're only taking two more classes. Also, if you haven't taken evidence yet or are taking it concurrently, that can be quite a challenge because the class assumes you're familiar with what's hearsay, rules for evidence of character and past bad acts, etc.


Also, the course offerings for winter are much more limited than the fall and spring course offerings.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:10 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Do clinical hours count toward the min. 52 hours upper-level requirement? I'm wondering whether you're still on track if you take a 4-hr clinic and maybe 7 or 8 more hours of traditional classes?

Yes. It's the 36 classroom credits that exclude clinics. The 52 credits includes everything: classroom, clinic, writing, and cross-registration.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Feldman 1A vs. Feldman 14A vs. Klarman 14A vs. Minow 14A?

I have gone to the occasional event where Feldman and Minow speak, and I am in Klarman's 14th class now. All are good, particularly Feldman and Klarman. 1st Amendment is a different class (and is what Feldman usually teaches) — Feldman for 14th is a little weird, but could be really good (I don't know, and probably no one knows). He's brilliant; it's unlikely to be bad either way.

Klarman's 14th is lecture-based (no cold calls) and goes pretty fast over a lot of stuff; you learn a lot, it's pretty entertaining, and, well, it's every bit as good as everyone says it is. He's a historian and very inclined toward the idea that doctrine doesn't tell you a lot; you cover doctrine, but he doesn't put a lot of faith in it, so you might want to go to a different class if this will annoy you. For being such a good teacher and having such a huge number of students, he's remarkable accessible, too.

Other than that Minow is a capable public speaker, I don't know anything about her class.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Whiting for Evidence

Highly respected. Everyone I've talked to strongly recommends this class. (He's not the only good Evidence person, but he is definitely a good Evidence person.)
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW

Don't know anything.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Sunstein vs. Stephenson for Admin Law

Stephenson. It's not close. Sunstein is a great scholar with tremendous experience doing interesting things. But you want Stephenson for this class.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Manning vs. Fallon for Fed Courts

Both are very, very good. I had Manning for Leg Reg, and I think he's great. Everyone I've talked to who took Fallon also highly recommends him. Both are also likely to need to be preferenced fairly high; HLS dropped from 4 Fed Courts classes in 2012-13 to 3 Fed Courts classes in 2013-14 to 2 Fed Courts classes in 2014-15. (I don't know why.)

If it makes a difference, I expect Fed Courts waitlists for the spring to move a lot more than for the fall. This is the sort of class that 3Ls talk other 3Ls out of taking unless they have to take it because, say, they're clerking. Thus, my guess is that you have to preference Fallon pretty close to #1 to get the class, but you might be able to get Manning a little lower. That said, I'm just guessing.
wert3813 wrote:Warren 6th...Is that something that is so pointless I may as well not put it because I'm not gonna get it and it is just going to decrease the chance I get my 7th choice? How high does Warren have to be? 1 or 2?

I can't remember whether I ended up getting into Warren or not. I put him #9 last year, just to see what would happen, and I ended up over 300 on the waitlist and it didn't move really at all until right before the semester started. Then a bunch of people started dropping, presumably because they didn't want to wake up that early. (Come to think of it, I must not have gotten in, because otherwise I probably would've taken the class; I had nothing that conflicted with it.)

My guess would be that if you put him in the top 3 or so, you stand a decent chance, but be prepared to deal with being on a waitlist for a loooooooong time.
Last edited by tomwatts on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:13 pm

tomwatts wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:Do clinical hours count toward the min. 52 hours upper-level requirement? I'm wondering whether you're still on track if you take a 4-hr clinic and maybe 7 or 8 more hours of traditional classes?

Yes. It's the 36 classroom credits that exclude clinics. The 52 credits includes everything: classroom, clinic, writing, and cross-registration.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Feldman 1A vs. Feldman 14A vs. Klarman 14A vs. Minow 14A?

I have gone to the occasional event where Feldman and Minow speak, and I am in Klarman's 14th class now. All are good, particularly Feldman and Klarman. 1st Amendment is a different class (and is what Feldman usually teaches) — Feldman for 14th is a little weird, but could be really good (I don't know, and probably no one knows). He's brilliant; it's unlikely to be bad either way.

Klarman's 14th is lecture-based (no cold calls) and goes pretty fast over a lot of stuff; you learn a lot, it's pretty entertaining, and, well, it's every bit as good as everyone says it is. He's a historian and very inclined toward the idea that doctrine doesn't tell you a lot; you cover doctrine, but he doesn't put a lot of faith in it, so you might want to go to a different class if this will annoy you. For being such a good teacher and having such a huge number of students, he's remarkable accessible, too.

Other than that Minow is a capable public speaker, I don't know anything about her class.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Whiting for Evidence

Highly respected. Everyone I've talked to strongly recommends this class. (He's not the only good Evidence person, but he is definitely a good Evidence person.)
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Ogletree vs. Sullivan for TAW

Don't know anything.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Sunstein vs. Stephenson for Admin Law

Stephenson. It's not close. Sunstein is a great scholar with tremendous experience doing interesting things. But you want Stephenson for this class.
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Manning vs. Fallon for Fed Courts

Both are very, very good. I had Manning for Leg Reg, and I think he's great. Everyone I've talked to who took Fallon also highly recommends him. Both are also likely to need to be preferenced fairly high; HLS dropped from 4 Fed Courts classes two years ago to 3 Fed Courts classes last year to 2 Fed Courts classes this year. (I don't know why.)

If it makes a difference, I expect Fed Courts waitlists for the spring to move a lot more than for the fall. This is the sort of class that 3Ls talk other 3Ls out of taking unless they have to take it because, say, they're clerking. Thus, my guess is that you have to preference Fallon pretty close to #1 to get the class, but you might be able to get
Manning a little lower. That said, I'm just guessing.


There were three sections of federal courts this year.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:14 pm

ph14 wrote:There were three sections of federal courts this year.

My bad; I meant for preferencing last year, etc. I'll amend that.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby whippersnappery » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:23 pm

This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:24 pm

whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


Probably happier than the average law student.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BlakcMajikc » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:04 pm

ph14 wrote:
whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


Probably happier than the average law student.


Very damn happy. We're at Harvard.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:20 pm

ph14 wrote:
whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


Probably happier than the average law student.

I thought he meant you, ph14, specifically and was very confused.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:21 pm

wert3813 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


Probably happier than the average law student.

I thought he meant you, ph14, specifically and was very confused.


Doesn't everyone care about my happiness, specifically? :P

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:27 pm

whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


I loved my law school years at Harvard. It was fun and the only real tough part was consistently being away from my fiance (now wife) for those 3 yrs. But I've always loved school in general and imagine I might have liked law school anywhere (virtually). Most people at HLS, though, did seem quite happy and few were downright miserable.

Unlike biglaw...

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:34 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
whippersnappery wrote:This might be sort of a fluffy question, but, in general, how happy are you and how happy would you say your classmates are?


I loved my law school years at Harvard. It was fun and the only real tough part was consistently being away from my fiance (now wife) for those 3 yrs. But I've always loved school in general and imagine I might have liked law school anywhere (virtually). Most people at HLS, though, did seem quite happy and few were downright miserable.

Unlike biglaw...


:(

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:41 pm

Hey DoubleChecks thanks for all your info in this thread so far. I have a Texas specific-question for you:

How difficult is it to get a 1L SA in Texas coming from Harvard? I was born and raised here, though not in or near any major markets (think Lubbock etc.) and am wondering if it would be worth it to try to get one. I went to community college / UT-Austin for undergrad and have limited work experience during UG (PI focused, but not overtly so). Have never lived anywhere except for my hometown and Austin.

Secondly, do firms care if you do one? My understanding that not having a 1L SA isn't a negative factor for EIP, whereas having one might be a slight positive, is this correct? Thanks for your help!

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:09 pm

Law school isn't perfect. There are a fair number of things to complain about. But that's true of any complicated system, and the legal system is complicated, and law school is part of it.

That being said, I have been fairly happy with my time here. I've made some great friends, had some pretty fun times, had enough free time to grow as a person, and I'm going to be a weee bit sad to leave when we graduate. Probably dramatically more sad when I start working in the fall.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:33 pm

bumping my thread..any idea on how easy grades are in clinics?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:36 pm

BelugaWhale wrote:bumping my thread..any idea on how easy grades are in clinics?


I believe it is easier to get an H in a clinic. IIRC, clinic grades are excluded from latin honors calculations.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gottago » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:37 pm

edit
Last edited by gottago on Thu May 15, 2014 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:42 pm

gottago wrote:2 questions:

1. Does an HLS degree provide an advantage and job security after getting that first job? For example, if I get a firm gig but I get pushed out in 5 years, will HLS still have a leg up or will I be pretty much the same as any other 5th year from a lowerT14?

Similarly, if I go to say Simpson Thatcher, and at year 5 I try to lateral to F500 inhouse, will an HLS degree help, or will I be viewed as any other STB 5th year?

2. Given its large size, have any of you felt that the administration is impersonal in helping you handle tricky situations? Not "academic advisement" like "what class do I take" but more like personal stuff.


1. To some degree, yes. Subsequent employers will care about school, grades, firm, relevant experiences, etc. It's difficult to speak about this with any degree of precision.
2. The administration isn't that great in some respects. But they're solid in others. This shouldn't be even a factor in deciding where to attend.




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