Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:05 pm

Below median is pretty difficult to swing in basically all of the D.C. market, and certainly doesn't make NorCal or L.A. any easier, which doesn't include the firms listed so far. If you didn't do D.C, NorCal, or L.A., then it probably seemed like "very few" firms had grade cutoffs, while if you did, it probably seemed like many did. Most top NYC law firms don't have grade cutoffs, but medium-tier D.C. firms certainly still do.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:58 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Below median is pretty difficult to swing in basically all of the D.C. market, and certainly doesn't make NorCal or L.A. any easier, which doesn't include the firms listed so far. If you didn't do D.C, NorCal, or L.A., then it probably seemed like "very few" firms had grade cutoffs, while if you did, it probably seemed like many did. Most top NYC law firms don't have grade cutoffs, but medium-tier D.C. firms certainly still do.


This may very well be the case too. I just always imagined smaller markets that were in demand did not have hard grade cutoffs (or ones that were high enough to note), just that they were that much more competitive to get because, again, high demand and low supply. But yes, SF and DC firms I can absolutely see having grade cut offs at median or even higher than median. I have no way of knowing lol. From anecdotal evidence though, I think slightly below median is not a cutoff for most of Cali/LA. I know a number of people with median and below median grades who landed a lot of offers from LA firms.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BlakcMajikc » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:58 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Below median is pretty difficult to swing in basically all of the D.C. market, and certainly doesn't make NorCal or L.A. any easier, which doesn't include the firms listed so far. If you didn't do D.C, NorCal, or L.A., then it probably seemed like "very few" firms had grade cutoffs, while if you did, it probably seemed like many did. Most top NYC law firms don't have grade cutoffs, but medium-tier D.C. firms certainly still do.


But, outside of W&C, DC firms will look past grades if the candidate has a great resume and great interviewing skills -- that's what makes blanket statements about the job market kind of hit or miss.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:50 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:Does anyone know how much waitlist movement there is for clinics? I put Transactional first and didn't get it, but now I'm not sure how to structure the rest of my schedule. (Not sure where I am on the waitlist yet, but presumably I will find that out later today)

You should be able to find out now. Just click on the "Waitlist" button in HELIOS. I suspect that Transactional will move a decent amount, but I can't say that I know for sure.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:42 pm

Question about clinicals...how easy are they to get an H in? I'm in one where only a few students are accepted and apparently has no substantive component (no final paper etc)....also how easy are the companion courses we have to take?

I guess I should add im in veterans clinic

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:32 pm

I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:32 pm

TripTrip wrote:I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

Ha. I did this too. Course I hogged it.

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:34 pm

Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:37 pm

wert3813 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

Ha. I did this too. Course I hogged it.


It would be interesting to know the distribution here.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:01 pm

ph14 wrote:
wert3813 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

Ha. I did this too. Course I hogged it.


It would be interesting to know the distribution here.


Yeah by market would be really enlightening.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.


Don't know Coates for Corp but he did teach one version that was in part taught with the business school. I heard that one was a joke. Easy but you didn't learn as much law because it was with business students. Generally a softball class.

Halperin I've always heard bad things about, but I know friends who took Kaplow and liked him. I don't think the horrible reviews for Kaplow are warranted.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:05 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.


Don't know Coates for Corp but he did teach one version that was in part taught with the business school. I heard that one was a joke. Easy but you didn't learn as much law because it was with business students. Generally a softball class.

Halperin I've always heard bad things about, but I know friends who took Kaplow and liked him. I don't think the horrible reviews for Kaplow are warranted.


I've heard that Fried was decent for corporations. The casebook he uses isn't that great. But you should be okay especially with some business background.

Is Coates still teaching the class where you spend one day at HBS? I had a friend who took it who said it was okay but they were not a huge fan of the impact that had on the class and the traveling aspect.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:08 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.

Kaplow has pretty decent reviews. Not Alvin Warren-level reviews, but good reviews.
ph14 wrote:
wert3813 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

Ha. I did this too. Course I hogged it.


It would be interesting to know the distribution here.

I ran this analysis for every firm I bid on at EIP. The bid/interview ratio determined my bid preferences. The CBA/offer ratio was a means of elimination for the firms in a geographically distant market; I was only going to be able to go to a few callbacks there, and I refused to do any where the odds of getting an offer were too low, so I didn't even bid on them. Occasionally the interview/CBO offer was another means of elimination (didn't want too many where the likelihood of a callback was too low), and the CBO/CBA offer at least raised my eyebrows: if they were giving a ton of callback offers but no one was accepting, I wanted to know why.

Come to think of it, I also chose the number of firms to bid on based on the expected number of callbacks and expected number of offers (sum of CBO/bid and offer/bid, respectively, for every firm on the list); I think I aimed for 8 expected CBOs and 3 expected offers, if I remember correctly, though I don't remember why those numbers. They just sort of seemed safe.

Now that I say that, it sounds sort of ridiculous, but it seemed reasonable at the time.

Er, it's a little hard to break this out by market, because some firms interview all markets together in one giant pile and some break up the markets into different interviewers. And some do IP separately, or (rarely) other specialties separately. That said, someone could probably do an approximation.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:37 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.


I had Shay for PSW, so perhaps the experience in his Tax class is different, but I will say he was extremely boring during PSW. He liked to repeat himself an excessive number of times and often brought up anecdotes that were a) not particularly relevant to the subject and b) boring. I think it would be a struggle to take a subject like Tax with him.

ETA: Just looked on HLSDope and he is the 4th lowest-ranked prof on "Makes class interesting" ... seems about right lol.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:43 pm

tomwatts wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:Has anyone taken Corps with Fried or Coates? Or Tax with Halperin, Kaplow, or Shay? I know all these professors have horrible reviews but is it worth waiting until Spring 2015 to take Corps or Taxes just to avoid these guys? I have already taken Corporations and Taxation in undergrad, so I do have some background in the material.

Kaplow has pretty decent reviews. Not Alvin Warren-level reviews, but good reviews.
ph14 wrote:
wert3813 wrote:
TripTrip wrote:I've been compiling some OCS data. Here's a few quick stats on HLS's EIPs 2010-2012:

Percentage Bid-->Interview: 69.76%
Percentage Interview-->CBO: 40.22%
Percentage CBO-->CBA: 67.04%
Percentage CBA-->Offer: 65.77%

Percentage Bid-->Offer: 12.37%
Percentage Interview-->Offer: 17.74%


This isn't really in response to any particular question, I just assume this is the Harvard General Knowledge thread now.

Ha. I did this too. Course I hogged it.


It would be interesting to know the distribution here.

I ran this analysis for every firm I bid on at EIP. The bid/interview ratio determined my bid preferences. The CBA/offer ratio was a means of elimination for the firms in a geographically distant market; I was only going to be able to go to a few callbacks there, and I refused to do any where the odds of getting an offer were too low, so I didn't even bid on them. Occasionally the interview/CBO offer was another means of elimination (didn't want too many where the likelihood of a callback was too low), and the CBO/CBA offer at least raised my eyebrows: if they were giving a ton of callback offers but no one was accepting, I wanted to know why.

Come to think of it, I also chose the number of firms to bid on based on the expected number of callbacks and expected number of offers (sum of CBO/bid and offer/bid, respectively, for every firm on the list); I think I aimed for 8 expected CBOs and 3 expected offers, if I remember correctly, though I don't remember why those numbers. They just sort of seemed safe.

Now that I say that, it sounds sort of ridiculous, but it seemed reasonable at the time.

Er, it's a little hard to break this out by market, because some firms interview all markets together in one giant pile and some break up the markets into different interviewers. And some do IP separately, or (rarely) other specialties separately. That said, someone could probably do an approximation.

I did offer to cbo once by market. nyc was 1 and texas was 2. Course that is no surprise and I can't remember after that and I don't have time to redo because I haven't done shit this year for exams. Helpful i know.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:25 am

FWIW, I bid SF/LA in 2011. I had a high Screener--->CB and a low CB--->Offer in SF (11----7 O/4 A---->1), and vice versa in LA (14----->3O/3A---->2). I don't know how typical that is or if that reflects anything about those markets, but just another data point.

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:22 am

Does anybody know if there are any common rental scams on Craigslist in the Cambridge area?

I'm trying to avoid using an agent, but some of these Craigslistings are sketch.

I have one guy right now who wants me to wire him $1,000.00 for a deposit before he "mails me the keys" from another state that his job relocated him to.

I want to believe that it's just informal and unconventional (because he sounded super foreign), but too many red flags are popping up....

Obviously I told him to fly a kite and that I needed entry to the apartment and a proposed lease agreement before I would send any money.

Anybody with experience with this? Second, does anybody have any ideas on how I can better vet this place, especially when the owners claim to be in another state, and want to deal virtually?

The pricing/size is just too good to write-off without putting in my due diligence first.

Thanks!

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:01 am

sjgonzalez3 wrote:Does anybody know if there are any common rental scams on Craigslist in the Cambridge area?

I'm trying to avoid using an agent, but some of these Craigslistings are sketch.

I have one guy right now who wants me to wire him $1,000.00 for a deposit before he "mails me the keys" from another state that his job relocated him to.

I want to believe that it's just informal and unconventional (because he sounded super foreign), but too many red flags are popping up....

Obviously I told him to fly a kite and that I needed entry to the apartment and a proposed lease agreement before I would send any money.

Anybody with experience with this? Second, does anybody have any ideas on how I can better vet this place, especially when the owners claim to be in another state, and want to deal virtually?

The pricing/size is just too good to write-off without putting in my due diligence first.

Thanks!

Total scam. Not as common around here as other places I've looked for housing but what you just described is an old CL scam.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:07 am

The pricing/size is just too good to write-off without putting in my due diligence first.


If it's too good to be true...

love4life29
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby love4life29 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:26 am

Is the interview/career fair thing held every August after 1L? Do all students attend - even those who are set on doing public interest?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:19 am

love4life29 wrote:Is the interview/career fair thing held every August after 1L? Do all students attend - even those who are set on doing public interest?


Yes, every August after 1L (2Ls can go as well but it's not common to do so). No, only students who want to work at a law firm attend. There is a separate public interest job fair, which I believe is in the fall after EIP (in September). Also, there is the spring interview program, but i'm not sure if any 2Ls or 3Ls do it and whether any public interest organizations attend.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:15 pm

ph14 wrote:There is a separate public interest job fair, which I believe is in the fall after EIP (in September).

Also, it could charitably be described as "limited." PI students apply throughout 2L year for their second summer internships and throughout 3L year for their jobs upon graduation. (There might be a clerkship/fellowship app process in there, too.)

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:47 pm

Do clinical hours count toward the min. 52 hours upper-level requirement? I'm wondering whether you're still on track if you take a 4-hr clinic and maybe 7 or 8 more hours of traditional classes?

Also there seems to be a clear consensus for some of the multi-sections like 1A w/ Feldman that you probably have to rank it first in order to get it. For Corps and Evidence, is there anyone who also needs to be ranked 1/2 in order to have a realistic chance at getting in?

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:53 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
The pricing/size is just too good to write-off without putting in my due diligence first.


If it's too good to be true...


Yeah... it's just close enough that it is realistic on the pricing/size, it's just on the better side of what i've seen.

Given the obnoxious red flags though, i'm pulling back. Just now when I asked him for a proposed lease, he asked me to draw it up haha.

I may just pursue this far enough to report him to the police/craiglist.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:59 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote: For Corps and Evidence, is there anyone who also needs to be ranked 1/2 in order to have a realistic chance at getting in?

Since neither Hanson nor Subramanian are teaching Corps next year, Clark will be more competitive than normal.




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