Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:13 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Thanks for the very informative thread everyone!

I was wondering is there any other place to gather information on HLS besides this thread and HLS's official website? I am currently working on a LOCI as I am waitlisted but I found the website to be rather bare-boned in terms of information, compared to Columbia and Chicago.



Sorry to be repeating the question, but it looks to be ignored.

Mind any one telling me if any other sources of information exist?


Doubt a LOCI will do anything, but i'll throw out a few ideas:
https://twitter.com/Harvard_Law
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03074
https://www.facebook.com/harvardlaw
http://hlrecord.org/
Individual student organization websites, e.g., http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/bsa/ & --LinkRemoved--

lawschool2014hopeful
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawschool2014hopeful » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:41 pm

ph14 wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Thanks for the very informative thread everyone!

I was wondering is there any other place to gather information on HLS besides this thread and HLS's official website? I am currently working on a LOCI as I am waitlisted but I found the website to be rather bare-boned in terms of information, compared to Columbia and Chicago.



Sorry to be repeating the question, but it looks to be ignored.

Mind any one telling me if any other sources of information exist?


Doubt a LOCI will do anything, but i'll throw out a few ideas:
https://twitter.com/Harvard_Law
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03074
https://www.facebook.com/harvardlaw
http://hlrecord.org/
Individual student organization websites, e.g., http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/bsa/ & --LinkRemoved--


Great, thank you.

It probably wont help much, but I figure, when you are this close, is a game of inches, hopefully to be joining you soon!

Is actually really cool to see how some posters have asked questions in earlier pages and now responding to questions (ATL,BA,DK). It took me 2 days to read through everything!

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:47 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
ph14 wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Thanks for the very informative thread everyone!

I was wondering is there any other place to gather information on HLS besides this thread and HLS's official website? I am currently working on a LOCI as I am waitlisted but I found the website to be rather bare-boned in terms of information, compared to Columbia and Chicago.



Sorry to be repeating the question, but it looks to be ignored.

Mind any one telling me if any other sources of information exist?


Doubt a LOCI will do anything, but i'll throw out a few ideas:
https://twitter.com/Harvard_Law
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03074
https://www.facebook.com/harvardlaw
http://hlrecord.org/
Individual student organization websites, e.g., http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/bsa/ & --LinkRemoved--


Great, thank you.

It probably wont help much, but I figure, when you are this close, is a game of inches, hopefully to be joining you soon!

Is actually really cool to see how some posters have asked questions in earlier pages and now responding to questions (ATL,BA,DK). It took me 2 days to read through everything!


I hear ya. Well good luck to you.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:20 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
ph14 wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Thanks for the very informative thread everyone!

I was wondering is there any other place to gather information on HLS besides this thread and HLS's official website? I am currently working on a LOCI as I am waitlisted but I found the website to be rather bare-boned in terms of information, compared to Columbia and Chicago.



Sorry to be repeating the question, but it looks to be ignored.

Mind any one telling me if any other sources of information exist?


Doubt a LOCI will do anything, but i'll throw out a few ideas:
https://twitter.com/Harvard_Law
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... sity-03074
https://www.facebook.com/harvardlaw
http://hlrecord.org/
Individual student organization websites, e.g., http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/bsa/ & --LinkRemoved--


Great, thank you.

It probably wont help much, but I figure, when you are this close, is a game of inches, hopefully to be joining you soon!

Is actually really cool to see how some posters have asked questions in earlier pages and now responding to questions (ATL,BA,DK). It took me 2 days to read through everything!

You probably know this but, assuming it's true, "If admitted I will come" pro slot the only thing that even might move the needle a tick. See JS1B in last year's admission thread.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:24 pm

lawschool2014hopeful wrote:
lawschool2014hopeful wrote:Thanks for the very informative thread everyone!

I was wondering is there any other place to gather information on HLS besides this thread and HLS's official website? I am currently working on a LOCI as I am waitlisted but I found the website to be rather bare-boned in terms of information, compared to Columbia and Chicago.



Sorry to be repeating the question, but it looks to be ignored.

Mind any one telling me if any other sources of information exist?
1L but got an email from a partner today asking me to apply. Unsolicited (ie I went But had not emailed anyone thanking them). Also no one should freak out I'm sure it means nothing and that plenty of partners just haven't got around to it.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby TripTrip » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:02 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:For 2Ls and 3Ls who've done the Quinn Emanuel thing, how do callbacks work? Is it if you get an email from one office asking for grades and resume, you have a shot at a callback, if you don't, you don't? Or can you initiate a follow-up without the office asking?

Thanks!

Wert's response notwithstanding, Quinn has a rep as a go-getter firm. If you want the job, applying seems like a good bet even if they don't reach out.

viacavour
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby viacavour » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:56 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:For 2Ls and 3Ls who've done the Quinn Emanuel thing, how do callbacks work? Is it if you get an email from one office asking for grades and resume, you have a shot at a callback, if you don't, you don't? Or can you initiate a follow-up without the office asking?

Thanks!

Wert's response notwithstanding, Quinn has a rep as a go-getter firm. If you want the job, applying seems like a good bet even if they don't reach out.



I didn't attend the reception, sent them an email in mid July saying I was interested in the firm, they asked for my resume and grades, got a callback the next day and eventually an offer. Takeaway: the reception REALLY doesn't matter. If you want to apply, apply.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:16 pm

Quinn, compared to most other firms, cares more about resume/grades. So EIP didn't really make sense to them, because students would bid for and have screeners with them whose resume+grade combinations made them auto-rejects at Quinn. This isn't to say that Quinn doesn't care about personality (or they wouldn't have callbacks), but just that they do have cutoffs and EIP doesn't allow for pre-screening.

Harvard students are, on the whole, comparatively unprepared for EIP. Not because the resources aren't there; a lot just don't bother (and be wary, a fair number, though not all, of those who walk out with no offers do fall into the unprepared camp, and probably would've done better had they been). I was actually pretty surprised by it, since I'm friends with people at other law schools who seem to prep a lot more.

If Harvard students actually did their research, then people wouldn't toss so many hail mary's at Quinn (most have the good sense not to do this at Wachtell). But, they did, and that was a waste of time for everybody, so Quinn pulled out from EIP and does the reception, but they do the reception because they know that if they just pull out from EIP and don't do anything else, they'll lose out on a lot of applicants who might just not realize they exist (because, again, Harvard students are relatively unprepared). The reception is Quinn advertising to you, not really the other way around.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:21 pm

Harvard students are, on the whole, comparatively unprepared for EIP. Not because the resources aren't there


atl, can you elaborate on these points? What makes them unprepared? What resources should they be looking at?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:40 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Harvard students are, on the whole, comparatively unprepared for EIP. Not because the resources aren't there


atl, can you elaborate on these points? What makes them unprepared? What resources should they be looking at?


They should be looking at resources at all, to start with. Like the OCS website, which gives you a lot of good bare bones information. I was pretty mystified at people who didn't even bother to do that. The OCS website is actually really helpful--they link to a lot of other useful sources, and we actually have free access to a lot of subscription-only resources through OCS. Additionally, when summer comes, you'll be able to set up appointments with actual recruiters in those markets that can walk you through some inside scoop on firms. I wouldn't rely on any one resource alone (including anything I say!) Get a mix, the truth probably lies somewhere in the mix.

Most people just do NYC. In which case, you do a nice hodgepodge of more prestigious and less prestigious firms and it's actually really difficult to screw up. Where people tend to go wrong is when they venture out into other markets without realizing that there are unique aspects to each of them that will make you more or less competitive, and that you have to be careful while doing that.

Brief overview:
D.C.: You need some or all of the following to get into this market at all: good grades, law review, experience in D.C., competitive resume.
If you're a K-JD with below median grades, no law review, and no ties to D.C. who doesn't have anything super impressive on your resume, definitely don't bother bidding for any of the top D.C. firms, and you possibly shouldn't bother bidding on D.C. at all. Unless you're really strong across the board (and you'll know if you are if you are, if you have to ask, you probably aren't), adding a backup market like NYC would be very prudent.
NorCal: Demand far exceeds supply here, but they don't differentitate the same way D.C. does. While ties are fairly important, intangibles like having a good interview can still push you through, which makes your performance here hard to predict and something of a dice roll. Add a backup market,
Boston: Outside of Wilmerhale, Ropes, Bingham, and Goodwin, if you don't have ties to Boston other than going to HLS, this will be a struggle. Since you don't want to interview with just 4 firms, naturally you should bid on another market as well.
LA: I actually don't know much about LA other than that it's difficult as well and that you'll want a backup market as well. Ask people who interviewed there for more information.
Seattle: Ties or GTFO. Possibly GTFO anyway.
Chicago: I don't know anybody who isn't from the Midwest who *wants* to bid here, so I'm not sure if ties are important, or if it's just self-selecting. Maybe both?
Texas: Just search for "doublechecks".
Atlanta: I have only ever met one person going there. I have no idea.

gottago
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gottago » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:56 pm

edit
Last edited by gottago on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

KaNa1986
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby KaNa1986 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:10 pm

gottago wrote:I'm trying to understand the difference between H and Y's grading systems.

They seem to both be HP/P, although HLS also has DS/LP.

Doesn't this mean that interviewing skills are paramount at either place? Or have firms established "this many Hs" cutoffs @ HLS that simply don't exist @ YLS?


There are very few grade cutoffs at HLS (they essentially only exist at places such as W&C/Cravath/S&C/Wachtell etc.). At YLS, the grade cutoffs still exist, though they appear to be softer cutoffs. Again, the vast majority of the firms do not have cutoffs.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:10 pm

gottago wrote:I'm trying to understand the difference between H and Y's grading systems.

They seem to both be HP/P, although HLS also has DS/LP.

Doesn't this mean that interviewing skills are paramount at either place? Or have firms established "this many Hs" cutoffs @ HLS that simply don't exist @ YLS?

My understanding is that first semester at Yale is completely P/F. Only second semester do they begin HP/P. So, after 1 yr, it's much harder to distinguish Yalies apart but it is (slightly) easier to distinguish HLS students since we have an extra semester of HP/P/LP grades

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:11 pm

Does anybody have any experience increasing their HLS aid offer based on an SLS initial aid offer?

If so, how big of a difference do you think it needs to be for a response?

I'm looking at about 12k (4k, 4k, 4k) extra from SLS.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:32 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:For 2Ls and 3Ls who've done the Quinn Emanuel thing, how do callbacks work? Is it if you get an email from one office asking for grades and resume, you have a shot at a callback, if you don't, you don't? Or can you initiate a follow-up without the office asking?

Thanks!


they don't know your grades before sending out the emails. they have grade cutoffs. going to their reception is a good way to get that email. you can initiate a follow-up.

if you have further questions, you should ask in a thread where people can respond anonymously.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:20 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:Does anybody have any experience increasing their HLS aid offer based on an SLS initial aid offer?

If so, how big of a difference do you think it needs to be for a response?

I'm looking at about 12k (4k, 4k, 4k) extra from SLS.

HLS is very likely to match. HLS specifically disclaims matching merit-based aid from other schools, but, IIRC, HLS tends to match need-based aid from what they view as peer schools (YLS, SLS). This is second-hand, though.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:40 pm

http://hlsdope.org/index.php

While I sat on my fat ass this weekend some dude did this. Read the about section if you're curious. I wish my middle school coded.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:24 am

KaNa1986 wrote:
gottago wrote:I'm trying to understand the difference between H and Y's grading systems.

They seem to both be HP/P, although HLS also has DS/LP.

Doesn't this mean that interviewing skills are paramount at either place? Or have firms established "this many Hs" cutoffs @ HLS that simply don't exist @ YLS?


There are very few grade cutoffs at HLS (they essentially only exist at places such as W&C/Cravath/S&C/Wachtell etc.). At YLS, the grade cutoffs still exist, though they appear to be softer cutoffs. Again, the vast majority of the firms do not have cutoffs.


This could not be more false.

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:25 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:
KaNa1986 wrote:
gottago wrote:I'm trying to understand the difference between H and Y's grading systems.

They seem to both be HP/P, although HLS also has DS/LP.

Doesn't this mean that interviewing skills are paramount at either place? Or have firms established "this many Hs" cutoffs @ HLS that simply don't exist @ YLS?


There are very few grade cutoffs at HLS (they essentially only exist at places such as W&C/Cravath/S&C/Wachtell etc.). At YLS, the grade cutoffs still exist, though they appear to be softer cutoffs. Again, the vast majority of the firms do not have cutoffs.


This could not be more false.


What is false? That there are some firms with cutoffs, or that most firms do not have cutoffs?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:35 am

Mr. Elshal wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
KaNa1986 wrote:
There are very few grade cutoffs at HLS (they essentially only exist at places such as W&C/Cravath/S&C/Wachtell etc.). At YLS, the grade cutoffs still exist, though they appear to be softer cutoffs. Again, the vast majority of the firms do not have cutoffs.


This could not be more false.


What is false? That there are some firms with cutoffs, or that most firms do not have cutoffs?


I am unsure as well. From what I saw (anecdotal evidence), most firms, aside from the super selective, i.e., those listed in the above parenthetical, did not have grade cutoffs at HLS. Or if they did, they were well below median grade cutoffs. I certainly know a number of people with median to slightly below median grades who landed offers at S&C and 'lower' firms that were still top 20 vault firms. Can't speak to YLS recruiting at all, though I'd imagine firms would only be more lax there.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:24 am

There are plenty of firms with below median cutoffs - I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I do not think that the "vast majority" of firms have no cutoff. In fact, I know of multiple firms (including my own) that are not in the group you listed or reputed to be "super selective" and that have hard grade cutoffs.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:33 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:There are plenty of firms with below median cutoffs - I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I do not think that the "vast majority" of firms have no cutoff. In fact, I know of multiple firms (including my own) that are not in the group you listed or reputed to be "super selective" and that have hard grade cutoffs.


Really? We had a ton of firms at EIP. I'd be surprised if more than 20 had hard grade cutoffs. I think that qualifies as vast majority. I know people who didn't have stellar grades (below median) that got top of the market in places like Chicago, Miami, Boston and Texas. I've also heard of people with below median (on TLS and other forums) getting V10 offers. How many firms at EIP do you think have a hard cutoff?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:42 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:There are plenty of firms with below median cutoffs - I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I do not think that the "vast majority" of firms have no cutoff. In fact, I know of multiple firms (including my own) that are not in the group you listed or reputed to be "super selective" and that have hard grade cutoffs.


I am surprised at this too. From what I experienced and saw among friends, the 'vast majority' of firms were very willing to dip into students who were below median, even many V10 firms. That being said, I can see our two statements not being mutually exclusive. All the firms could have a hard grade cutoff that just happens to be very low; well under "below median". That's quite possible, though I think the connotation of "grade cutoffs" is usually seen as above median or so, i.e., selective firms not taking people who only have median grades. In that sense, I feel that very few firms at EIP were like that.

KaNa1986
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby KaNa1986 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:48 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
KaNa1986 wrote:
There are very few grade cutoffs at HLS (they essentially only exist at places such as W&C/Cravath/S&C/Wachtell etc.). At YLS, the grade cutoffs still exist, though they appear to be softer cutoffs. Again, the vast majority of the firms do not have cutoffs.


This could not be more false.


What is false? That there are some firms with cutoffs, or that most firms do not have cutoffs?


I am unsure as well. From what I saw (anecdotal evidence), most firms, aside from the super selective, i.e., those listed in the above parenthetical, did not have grade cutoffs at HLS. Or if they did, they were well below median grade cutoffs. I certainly know a number of people with median to slightly below median grades who landed offers at S&C and 'lower' firms that were still top 20 vault firms. Can't speak to YLS recruiting at all, though I'd imagine firms would only be more lax there.


I agree. Even if students with below median grades get Cravath (which I know of people who got it with below median grades), that does not mean Cravath does not have a cut-off; it is a matter of how hard the cutoff is. I saw a cut-off (though not completely hard) as a line in which you cannot make up for with stuff you can improve up on in the short-term (even if holding a CFA, etc. would still get you considered).

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:57 pm

Does anyone know how much waitlist movement there is for clinics? I put Transactional first and didn't get it, but now I'm not sure how to structure the rest of my schedule. (Not sure where I am on the waitlist yet, but presumably I will find that out later today)




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