Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
gottago
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gottago » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:59 am

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:10 pm

gottago wrote:any of you choose HLS over YLS because you thought it had a better social calendar and scene? Or is that just crazy talk?

I was talking to someone who chose Dartmouth over HUG for that reason. on the other hand I also spoke to someone who chose Dartmouth over state schools because Dartmouth was "better," but it was a poor fit socially

I will have visited both but HLS just seemed like a right fit when I visited in March. I walked into a social event a section was hosting randomly and met some people there.

There's also BU/BC/Wellesley/Tufts/HBS/etc.


It's your life and a personal decision. Do what makes you happy. I personally think the idea that you have to pick YLS over HLS is overblown. But also be careful making really big decisions based on a single ASW. That might not be an accurate or complete picture of the school.

gottago
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gottago » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:17 pm

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:23 pm

tomwatts wrote:
thestatusguo wrote:Hi guys!

Just got my JS2 today and I thought I'd ask if anyone had any input; I'm in at the joint JD/MPP program at HLS/HKS but I'm really really hoping to get into the California (preferably northern/Bay Area) legal market; unfortunately, however, save for a few special people out in the area and summers/etc. spent in the area, I don't really have too many ties there. If I were to attend HLS (or HLS/HKS for the joint), how plausible would it be to try to get onto that coast? I'd bid for California firms and whatever else I'd need to do but how hard/unlikely would it be to land there? Is there anything special that I'd have to do?

JD/MPP from SF here. It depends a lot on what you're trying to do. Most JD/MPPs are interested in going into public interest, not a firm, so obviously the market looks different depending on your interests (and your practice area interests within a firm). For firms, in general, California is over-saturated and therefore hard to break into, but HLS does as well as any school. Plenty of firms come to EIP (what other schools call OCI — it's the thing that gets you a traditional firm job), and I ended up with a couple of Bay Area offers even though I split my bids between SF and NY due to various geographical uncertainties, so it's definitely doable. Good grades will help a lot in a difficult market, and a coherent story as to why you want to go there will help even if you don't have strong ties.

Also, the Bay Area hosts a number of firms that aren't traditional biglaw that might be of interest to a JD/MPP, ranging from political law firms (e.g. Nielsen Merksamer) to plaintiffs firms (e.g. Altshuler Berzon, Lieff Cabraser — see more discussion here). And if you think that public interest might be more your thing, there's plenty of that in the Bay Area, too, but the options vary a lot more depending on what exactly you're interested in.

I can answer more specifically by PM, if you'd like, or here in the thread if you have more specific questions. Also, the JD/MPP program has a lot of Californians right now, so I'd be happy to connect you with more people if you have specific interests that I can't answer about. Also, if you are coming to the April ASW, the JD/MPPs will be tabling (and I think at least a couple of us will be representing our various journals at the night out in Boston), so we can chat more there if you'd like.

(Also, there are more general discussions of the SF/SV scene here and in threads linked therein.)


This was very helpful! Part of the reason I want to attend HLS is potential interest in the JD/MPP. The other part is to get out of California for a few years while I have the chance.

I'll be heading to the April ASW so I will be sure to drop by the JD/MPP for more detailed questions about the program. But, I was wondering if you might be able to speculate about the relative ease with which an HLS grad v. a SLS grad breaks into CA? Is it self-selection, or an actual advantage that they gain? Given that I want to return to CA, I'm apprehensive to choose HLS over my SLS acceptance, but it's simultaneously the reason why I want to get out for a while.

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:25 pm

liammial wrote:Still laughing about judging my personality based on an anonymous forum post. Chill the fuck out. You know what's just as bad as socially awkward gunners? Judgmental people. Also, no one can figure out who I am, because I lied about all of my information on this website.

8)


Also... just checked into the last 4 pages of this thread. This guys seriously almost made me email my intent to attend SLS right now. Thank goodness the other 5127112751 HLS students in this thread are so cool.

I only hope he gets a scholarship from CCN and is debt averse.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:30 pm

gottago wrote:
It's your life and a personal decision. Do what makes you happy. I personally think the idea that you have to pick YLS over HLS is overblown. But also be careful making really big decisions based on a single ASW. That might not be an accurate or complete picture of the school.


well first I had better be right that HLS does in fact have a better social calendar and "scene." the section party I walked into was after ASW formally ended so it wasn't like HLS sprinkled events for show. in your experience, has HLS been a good scene as far as law schools go?[/quote]
I'm sure you can find some Yalies to tell you otherwise (the best spin I ever heard was "Boston feels like a big town, while New Haven feels like a small city"), but (and I haven't matriculated to other law schools obviously) the social scene here is really strong. You have twice as many students at the law school, tons of bars nearby, and a major metropolitan city 4 miles away.

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wert3813
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
tomwatts wrote:
thestatusguo wrote:Hi guys!

Just got my JS2 today and I thought I'd ask if anyone had any input; I'm in at the joint JD/MPP program at HLS/HKS but I'm really really hoping to get into the California (preferably northern/Bay Area) legal market; unfortunately, however, save for a few special people out in the area and summers/etc. spent in the area, I don't really have too many ties there. If I were to attend HLS (or HLS/HKS for the joint), how plausible would it be to try to get onto that coast? I'd bid for California firms and whatever else I'd need to do but how hard/unlikely would it be to land there? Is there anything special that I'd have to do?

JD/MPP from SF here. It depends a lot on what you're trying to do. Most JD/MPPs are interested in going into public interest, not a firm, so obviously the market looks different depending on your interests (and your practice area interests within a firm). For firms, in general, California is over-saturated and therefore hard to break into, but HLS does as well as any school. Plenty of firms come to EIP (what other schools call OCI — it's the thing that gets you a traditional firm job), and I ended up with a couple of Bay Area offers even though I split my bids between SF and NY due to various geographical uncertainties, so it's definitely doable. Good grades will help a lot in a difficult market, and a coherent story as to why you want to go there will help even if you don't have strong ties.

Also, the Bay Area hosts a number of firms that aren't traditional biglaw that might be of interest to a JD/MPP, ranging from political law firms (e.g. Nielsen Merksamer) to plaintiffs firms (e.g. Altshuler Berzon, Lieff Cabraser — see more discussion here). And if you think that public interest might be more your thing, there's plenty of that in the Bay Area, too, but the options vary a lot more depending on what exactly you're interested in.

I can answer more specifically by PM, if you'd like, or here in the thread if you have more specific questions. Also, the JD/MPP program has a lot of Californians right now, so I'd be happy to connect you with more people if you have specific interests that I can't answer about. Also, if you are coming to the April ASW, the JD/MPPs will be tabling (and I think at least a couple of us will be representing our various journals at the night out in Boston), so we can chat more there if you'd like.

(Also, there are more general discussions of the SF/SV scene here and in threads linked therein.)


This was very helpful! Part of the reason I want to attend HLS is potential interest in the JD/MPP. The other part is to get out of California for a few years while I have the chance.

I'll be heading to the April ASW so I will be sure to drop by the JD/MPP for more detailed questions about the program. But, I was wondering if you might be able to speculate about the relative ease with which an HLS grad v. a SLS grad breaks into CA? Is it self-selection, or an actual advantage that they gain? Given that I want to return to CA, I'm apprehensive to choose HLS over my SLS acceptance, but it's simultaneously the reason why I want to get out for a while.

Does special people include someone you intend to marry? And does summers mean worked there all summer or took a vacation?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
tomwatts wrote:
thestatusguo wrote:Hi guys!

Just got my JS2 today and I thought I'd ask if anyone had any input; I'm in at the joint JD/MPP program at HLS/HKS but I'm really really hoping to get into the California (preferably northern/Bay Area) legal market; unfortunately, however, save for a few special people out in the area and summers/etc. spent in the area, I don't really have too many ties there. If I were to attend HLS (or HLS/HKS for the joint), how plausible would it be to try to get onto that coast? I'd bid for California firms and whatever else I'd need to do but how hard/unlikely would it be to land there? Is there anything special that I'd have to do?

JD/MPP from SF here. It depends a lot on what you're trying to do. Most JD/MPPs are interested in going into public interest, not a firm, so obviously the market looks different depending on your interests (and your practice area interests within a firm). For firms, in general, California is over-saturated and therefore hard to break into, but HLS does as well as any school. Plenty of firms come to EIP (what other schools call OCI — it's the thing that gets you a traditional firm job), and I ended up with a couple of Bay Area offers even though I split my bids between SF and NY due to various geographical uncertainties, so it's definitely doable. Good grades will help a lot in a difficult market, and a coherent story as to why you want to go there will help even if you don't have strong ties.

Also, the Bay Area hosts a number of firms that aren't traditional biglaw that might be of interest to a JD/MPP, ranging from political law firms (e.g. Nielsen Merksamer) to plaintiffs firms (e.g. Altshuler Berzon, Lieff Cabraser — see more discussion here). And if you think that public interest might be more your thing, there's plenty of that in the Bay Area, too, but the options vary a lot more depending on what exactly you're interested in.

I can answer more specifically by PM, if you'd like, or here in the thread if you have more specific questions. Also, the JD/MPP program has a lot of Californians right now, so I'd be happy to connect you with more people if you have specific interests that I can't answer about. Also, if you are coming to the April ASW, the JD/MPPs will be tabling (and I think at least a couple of us will be representing our various journals at the night out in Boston), so we can chat more there if you'd like.

(Also, there are more general discussions of the SF/SV scene here and in threads linked therein.)


This was very helpful! Part of the reason I want to attend HLS is potential interest in the JD/MPP. The other part is to get out of California for a few years while I have the chance.

I'll be heading to the April ASW so I will be sure to drop by the JD/MPP for more detailed questions about the program. But, I was wondering if you might be able to speculate about the relative ease with which an HLS grad v. a SLS grad breaks into CA? Is it self-selection, or an actual advantage that they gain? Given that I want to return to CA, I'm apprehensive to choose HLS over my SLS acceptance, but it's simultaneously the reason why I want to get out for a while.


Yes, you can definitely break into CA, especially if you have CA ties. I would not worry at all about picking HLS for working in CA.

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:41 pm

ph14 wrote:
Yes, you can definitely break into CA, especially if you have CA ties. I would not worry at all about picking HLS for working in CA.


This is very comforting. I was afraid of making a big mistake on that basis alone.

I have strong ties in both SoCal and SV/SF areas. YAY!

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t-14orbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:44 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Yes, you can definitely break into CA, especially if you have CA ties. I would not worry at all about picking HLS for working in CA.


This is very comforting. I was afraid of making a big mistake on that basis alone.

I have strong ties in both SoCal and SV/SF areas. YAY!


I'm from socal. Will be at April ASW.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:44 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Yes, you can definitely break into CA, especially if you have CA ties. I would not worry at all about picking HLS for working in CA.


This is very comforting. I was afraid of making a big mistake on that basis alone.

I have strong ties in both SoCal and SV/SF areas. YAY!


I would guess that CA is our second biggest market. I know lots of people who are going to be working in CA, at a whole bunch of firms, including the most selective and picky in the state. All the big CA firms come to our EIP. In short, even assuming SLS gives you some sort of small placement edge, you aren't making a big mistake picking HLS instead if you want to end up in CA.

liammial
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby liammial » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:51 pm

.
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liammial
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby liammial » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:56 pm

.
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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:57 pm

liammial wrote:y'all just got trolled

8)


Can you stop clogging up the thread?

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby liammial » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:01 pm

.
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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:02 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
sjgonzalez3 wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Yes, you can definitely break into CA, especially if you have CA ties. I would not worry at all about picking HLS for working in CA.


This is very comforting. I was afraid of making a big mistake on that basis alone.

I have strong ties in both SoCal and SV/SF areas. YAY!


I'm from socal. Will be at April ASW.


We should definitely meet up while there, if not with a group of April TLS'ers, then at least ourselves. PM me closer to or during that weekend if you're interested or have heard of other TLS'ers planning something already.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:09 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
We should definitely meet up while there, if not with a group of April TLS'ers, then at least ourselves. PM me closer to or during that weekend if you're interested or have heard of other TLS'ers planning something already.


Will do. See you there bro

liammial
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby liammial » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:34 pm

seriously, though, didn't mean to offend anyone or rub anybody the wrong way. sorry. i don't think my childish behavior on here reflects my actual behavior in any way, but i don't know why anyone thinks it would. thanks to the people who messaged me helpful responses. i will go now

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:22 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:Part of the reason I want to attend HLS is potential interest in the JD/MPP. The other part is to get out of California for a few years while I have the chance.

This was basically my rationale. I wanted to appreciate SF more when I go back, which I will do eventually, though I don't know exactly how soon. And I'm pretty sure that part worked.

sjgonzalez3 wrote:I'll be heading to the April ASW so I will be sure to drop by the JD/MPP for more detailed questions about the program. But, I was wondering if you might be able to speculate about the relative ease with which an HLS grad v. a SLS grad breaks into CA? Is it self-selection, or an actual advantage that they gain? Given that I want to return to CA, I'm apprehensive to choose HLS over my SLS acceptance, but it's simultaneously the reason why I want to get out for a while.

What others have said is true. But I'll add that there are HLS/HKS people in even somewhat surprising positions in NorCal. The California Insurance Commissioner is a JD/MPP from Harvard. The LA City Attorney is an HLS grad. The Legislative Director for the Mayor of SF is an HKS grad. (The Governor's YLS, but we don't hold that against him. :P ) You're going to have connections all over the place — and even where you don't, while OCS/OPIA don't really know a lot about local/state government/policy/law in California, emailing from a Harvard email address doesn't turn anyone off, as long as you're not pretentious or annoying.

Because Harvard is so much larger than SLS, I'm not sure the ratio of HLS to SLS grads working in law/government positions in California, but it's not anywhere near as unbalanced as you might initially expect.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:24 pm

tomwatts wrote:
sjgonzalez3 wrote:Part of the reason I want to attend HLS is potential interest in the JD/MPP. The other part is to get out of California for a few years while I have the chance.

This was basically my rationale. I wanted to appreciate SF more when I go back, which I will do eventually, though I don't know exactly how soon. And I'm pretty sure that part worked.

sjgonzalez3 wrote:I'll be heading to the April ASW so I will be sure to drop by the JD/MPP for more detailed questions about the program. But, I was wondering if you might be able to speculate about the relative ease with which an HLS grad v. a SLS grad breaks into CA? Is it self-selection, or an actual advantage that they gain? Given that I want to return to CA, I'm apprehensive to choose HLS over my SLS acceptance, but it's simultaneously the reason why I want to get out for a while.

What others have said is true. But I'll add that there are HLS/HKS people in even somewhat surprising positions in NorCal. The California Insurance Commissioner is a JD/MPP from Harvard. The LA City Attorney is an HLS grad. The Legislative Director for the Mayor of SF is an HKS grad. (The Governor's YLS, but we don't hold that against him. :P ) You're going to have connections all over the place — and even where you don't, while OCS/OPIA don't really know a lot about local/state government/policy/law in California, emailing from a Harvard email address doesn't turn anyone off, as long as you're not pretentious or annoying.

Because Harvard is so much larger than SLS, I'm not sure the ratio of HLS to SLS grads working in law/government positions in California, but it's not anywhere near as unbalanced as you might initially expect.


I've been thinking about JD/MPP at HKS. Is it difficult to get into the MPP program? What benefits do you think it would give that aren't attainable through the JD alone? Thanks!!
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Blessedassurance
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:25 pm

yalies are weird as shit, even by law school aspie standards, so there's that. the advantage yale has is the no grading thing first semester but boy are they weird. you should all start complaining about grading at hls so they get rid of it. it's unnecessary and a huge waste of everyone's time.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:42 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
delusional wrote:
thestatusguo wrote:California market. How do HLS students fare?

Complete speculation: Better than other schools' students.


They do fine. You might have trouble if you have mediocre (1-3 H's) grades. I had above-median grades and did fine, but was not swimming in offers. Having strong CA ties helps (less important in LA, more important everywhere else), as does having a specific reason why you want to practice in CA. SF and LA are not fungible and you should try hard not to suggest that they are if you are interviewing in both markets. I recommend trying to get an offer from Quinn during the summer so that you can be a bit more ambitious come EIP. Make sure you look very carefully at bidding stats from previous years when you are ordering your bids - I did not and didn't get a few firms that probably should be on everyone's all-CA bid list (e.g. MoFo SF).


This is all probably good advice, but I just want to note that there are, as always, exceptions. If you end up with mediocre grades (like 1-2 H's for your whole 1L yr), you aren't necessarily shut out of the CA market (not suggesting this is what hlsperson111 was implying, however). It's just an extra obstacle/burden you have to get over. Being a very strong, professional interviewer will help you get a ton of offers, i.e., a lot of these firms, CA included, don't necessarily have strict grade cutoffs for HLS students it seems.

Case in point, a friend of mine is a very good interviewer, but had pretty middling grades. OCS told her to do like 30 screeners to be safe, especially since she wanted CA (targeted multiple markets though). She ended up getting 29 callback offers o.O. Only notable resume experience I believe was did TFA for 2 yrs.


I think I know exactly who you are talking about. FWIW, I am a terrible interviewer and it really hurt me come EIP (especially in converting CBs to offers). It's a learnable skill and my biggest piece of advice to all the 0Ls and 1Ls is that you should seriously work on it before EIP. Great interviewing will help you outperform your grades; bad interviewing will shut you out of firms where your grades are more than good enough.

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sjgonzalez3
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby sjgonzalez3 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:53 pm

t-14orbust wrote:I've been thinking about JD/MPP at Kellogg (Kennedy?). Is it difficult to get into the MPP program? What benefits do you think it would give that aren't attainable through the JD alone? Thanks!!


Piggybacking off this question, if the benefits stem from the knowledge, rather than the degree itself (a question in and of itself), would taking selected courses at HKS be sufficient to obtain said benefits. Going one step further, might this approach only be sufficient for a,b,c career paths, but not x,y,z (where the MPP itself might be required/preferred/beneficial).

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t-14orbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:57 pm

sjgonzalez3 wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:I've been thinking about JD/MPP at Kellogg (Kennedy?). Is it difficult to get into the MPP program? What benefits do you think it would give that aren't attainable through the JD alone? Thanks!!


Piggybacking off this question, if the benefits stem from the knowledge, rather than the degree itself (a question in and of itself), would taking selected courses at HKS be sufficient to obtain said benefits. Going one step further, might this approach only be sufficient for a,b,c career paths, but not x,y,z (where the MPP itself might be required/preferred/beneficial).


lol oops

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:38 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:I think I know exactly who you are talking about. FWIW, I am a terrible interviewer and it really hurt me come EIP (especially in converting CBs to offers). It's a learnable skill and my biggest piece of advice to all the 0Ls and 1Ls is that you should seriously work on it before EIP. Great interviewing will help you outperform your grades; bad interviewing will shut you out of firms where your grades are more than good enough.


Yeah, and I think being a strong, professional interviewer is just seen as a really big asset. I'm always so impressed by that 29/30 ratio -- it's so badass haha.




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