Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
Lovely Ludwig Van
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:43 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:11 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:20 hours to decide, any opinions on Clark for Corporations vs. Cope for Analytical Methods for lawyers?


Haven't taken Clark, but Cope's class is the easiest H you can get at HLS and also will teach you a couple of practical and useful things about accounting and finance. I highly recommend it, especially if the rest of your schedule is hard (e.g. if it's your 1L elective; if you are also taking Fed Courts, Admin, 4th/5th/6th, Corporate Tax, Securities Reg, etc.)

That said, if you are a 3L, you should probably take Corporations before you graduate.


But don't those kinds of classes tend to attract gunners?

Thanks for the advice.

User avatar
ebeth
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:51 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ebeth » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:48 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:20 hours to decide, any opinions on Clark for Corporations vs. Cope for Analytical Methods for lawyers?


Haven't taken Clark, but Cope's class is the easiest H you can get at HLS and also will teach you a couple of practical and useful things about accounting and finance. I highly recommend it, especially if the rest of your schedule is hard (e.g. if it's your 1L elective; if you are also taking Fed Courts, Admin, 4th/5th/6th, Corporate Tax, Securities Reg, etc.)

That said, if you are a 3L, you should probably take Corporations before you graduate.


But don't those kinds of classes tend to attract gunners?

Thanks for the advice.


Sometimes. But Cope's class does not tend to have many overt gunners.

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby patogordo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:51 pm

has anyone taken a class with Desan? vaguely intrigued by The Constitutional Law of Money

User avatar
Mr. Elshal
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:08 pm

patogordo wrote:has anyone taken a class with Desan? vaguely intrigued by The Constitutional Law of Money


I had her for Civ Pro. I didn't like Civ Pro as a subject but I liked her a lot. She's really nice and shows genuine interest in her students. She gave my class a talk about her money research and it sounded really interesting.

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby patogordo » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:12 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:
patogordo wrote:has anyone taken a class with Desan? vaguely intrigued by The Constitutional Law of Money


I had her for Civ Pro. I didn't like Civ Pro as a subject but I liked her a lot. She's really nice and shows genuine interest in her students. She gave my class a talk about her money research and it sounded really interesting.

yea the course description sounds pretty cool, and i sort of want to take it and just gun every day with absurd sovereign citizen arguments about the unconstitutionality of the federal reserve. it's either that or Energy and Climate Law and Policy which sounds suspiciously like it might involve actual work.

User avatar
Mr. Elshal
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:53 pm

patogordo wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:
patogordo wrote:has anyone taken a class with Desan? vaguely intrigued by The Constitutional Law of Money


I had her for Civ Pro. I didn't like Civ Pro as a subject but I liked her a lot. She's really nice and shows genuine interest in her students. She gave my class a talk about her money research and it sounded really interesting.

yea the course description sounds pretty cool, and i sort of want to take it and just gun every day with absurd sovereign citizen arguments about the unconstitutionality of the federal reserve. it's either that or Energy and Climate Law and Policy which sounds suspiciously like it might involve actual work.


You could check out this article she wrote to get an idea of her focus:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=2321313

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:22 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:20 hours to decide, any opinions on Clark for Corporations vs. Cope for Analytical Methods for lawyers?


Haven't taken Clark, but Cope's class is the easiest H you can get at HLS and also will teach you a couple of practical and useful things about accounting and finance. I highly recommend it, especially if the rest of your schedule is hard (e.g. if it's your 1L elective; if you are also taking Fed Courts, Admin, 4th/5th/6th, Corporate Tax, Securities Reg, etc.)

That said, if you are a 3L, you should probably take Corporations before you graduate.


But don't those kinds of classes tend to attract gunners?

Thanks for the advice.


Classes like that (including other intro stats class) tend to have a portion of students who actually really know the math and are riding it to an easy H.

Real gunners want to take classes that are impressive on a transcript. Intro to basic math is not one of them.

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:34 pm

Mr. Elshal wrote:Do grades come out before SIP interviews start? If I were lucky enough to get an interview but the firm specifies that I should bring my transcript to the interview, could that cause an issue? Interviews start on January 27 this year.


Grades typically come out within first 3 days of Spring Semester. If your interviewers care, you can send it to them later. My 1L summer employer never asked for and never saw my grades. Employers, especially ones that pay to to SIP, are not dumb enough to penalize you for not having something you could not possibly have.

User avatar
gb47
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:23 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gb47 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:29 am

I am likely attending next fall, and I have a couple of questions.

1. One of my good friends currently works in Boston, and asked if I wanted to live together in Cambridge with him. Would it be a bad idea to live with someone who doesn't go to HLS?

2. I don't have any ties to the Boston area, but I am interested in potentially working there after law school. What type of grades are needed to bid Boston firms? Is my lack of any strong ties problematic?

Thanks!

owlofminerva
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:37 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby owlofminerva » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:33 pm

gb47 wrote:I am likely attending next fall, and I have a couple of questions.

1. One of my good friends currently works in Boston, and asked if I wanted to live together in Cambridge with him. Would it be a bad idea to live with someone who doesn't go to HLS?

2. I don't have any ties to the Boston area, but I am interested in potentially working there after law school. What type of grades are needed to bid Boston firms? Is my lack of any strong ties problematic?

Thanks!


1. I lived with a non-law person while at HLS and found it pretty nice to have somebody that wasn't going to also be talking about law school all the time. To be honest, though, it really shouldn't be about whether they are a law-school person or not. You can find great friends/roommates at the school and others who aren't there. It is really about a personality fit just like any other roommate situation. Attached to that, though, are considerations such as 1) if you envision yourself being somebody who wants to study all the time, is he going to be trying to pull you out all the time to go party it up on the weekend? (to some degree, that can be healthy of course); 2) Do you have similar thoughts on cleanliness and guests? etc.

2. From my experience, Boston firms tend not to care much about ties. That said, it is common to encounter the "Why Boston?" question in interviews. I feel that my answer pointing to enjoying the local area during my time at HLS was a sufficient answer; at least for the bigger firms like Ropes and Bingham.

KaNa1986
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:32 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby KaNa1986 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:26 pm

gb47 wrote:I am likely attending next fall, and I have a couple of questions.

1. One of my good friends currently works in Boston, and asked if I wanted to live together in Cambridge with him. Would it be a bad idea to live with someone who doesn't go to HLS?

2. I don't have any ties to the Boston area, but I am interested in potentially working there after law school. What type of grades are needed to bid Boston firms? Is my lack of any strong ties problematic?

Thanks!


2. For selective secondary markets (i.e., Boston, SV, Chicago, LA), high selectivity comes not from high grade requirement but from fit. There are essentially two ways to attend a SA at a top firm in Boston (or SV, LA). First, you have good enough grades (i.e., 2-4 H's should qualify you for the top 3 firms) and either have strong ties or can articulate persuasively why you want to work in the market (e.g., EE UG major wanting to do patent prosecution in SV, strong reason for preferring the New England lifestyle). Second, you have a lot of H's (top quarter of your class) and are applying exclusively to Boston, SV, or LA (so no applying to Cravath, Sullivan, or Wachtell in NYC or Williams & Connolly or WilmerHale in DC at the same time).

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:37 pm

The top Boston firms are filled with HLS grads with no ties to Boston other than going to HLS.

Lower-ranked Boston firms will be more skeptical. They tend to pick up 0-1 HLS grads a year.

User avatar
wert3813
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:47 pm

gb47 wrote:I am likely attending next fall, and I have a couple of questions.

1. One of my good friends currently works in Boston, and asked if I wanted to live together in Cambridge with him. Would it be a bad idea to live with someone who doesn't go to HLS?

2. I don't have any ties to the Boston area, but I am interested in potentially working there after law school. What type of grades are needed to bid Boston firms? Is my lack of any strong ties problematic?

Thanks!

In general I would live with a non LS person over an LS person. But as said above just live with a person you are compatible with above all. Know that you will likely study much more than you ever have so just factor that into compatibility.

Older students can jump in RE grades Boston but my basic understanding is if you have average grades, bid exclusively Boston, and completely strike out, then the grades probably weren't the reason why.

Edit Scooped.

AllTheLawz
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:20 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby AllTheLawz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:34 pm

acrossthelake wrote:The top Boston firms are filled with HLS grads with no ties to Boston other than going to HLS.

Lower-ranked Boston firms will be more skeptical. They tend to pick up 0-1 HLS grads a year.


This. Ties don't matter as much for Ropes/Wilmer/Bingham/Goodwin but outside of those they can be huge. A ton of people pull offers from multiple of those four and then completely strike out at the smaller firms.

Also, contrary to what you might hear on the ground, don't be fooled by the high number of HLS people at Ropes/Wilmer. Those two firms are still fairly selective and I know quite a few people who thought they were going to get an offer easy that didn't even get callbacks.

User avatar
gb47
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:23 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby gb47 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:13 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the helpful feedback.

starbrite23
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby starbrite23 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:24 am

Also considering attending next year - what's the gay/lesbian (mostly invested in the latter) scene at HLS? I'm assuming that because it's Cambridge people are pretty accepting, but is there actually a community?

GertrudeR
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:02 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby GertrudeR » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:01 am

I'm currently number 1 on the waitlist for a seminar course for the spring but the limit is 6....is there any use in trying to email the professor to possibly get into the class?

User avatar
nothingtosee
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:08 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:15 am

Haven't been accepted, but talked about clinics in my interview. She mentioned that they have varying levels of competitiveness. How many would y'all say are competitive vs. "anybody can sign up," what types tend to be more competitive, and how selective are we talking?

User avatar
Mr. Elshal
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:13 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Mr. Elshal wrote:Do grades come out before SIP interviews start? If I were lucky enough to get an interview but the firm specifies that I should bring my transcript to the interview, could that cause an issue? Interviews start on January 27 this year.


Grades typically come out within first 3 days of Spring Semester. If your interviewers care, you can send it to them later. My 1L summer employer never asked for and never saw my grades. Employers, especially ones that pay to to SIP, are not dumb enough to penalize you for not having something you could not possibly have.


Thanks. I just got an email saying that grades will be out on or before 1/28, which is the second day of interviews, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Another question regarding SIP: If a firm has multiple slots still available but they all conflict with my classes, is there any way to switch spots with someone, or have the interview schedules moved around a little so that I could take a slot that does not conflict? Thank you!

User avatar
Eichörnchen
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:51 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Eichörnchen » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:37 pm

starbrite23 wrote:Also considering attending next year - what's the gay/lesbian (mostly invested in the latter) scene at HLS? I'm assuming that because it's Cambridge people are pretty accepting, but is there actually a community?

It seems very accepting to me. I know that at least in my section we have people from all over the spectrum and nobody seems to be at all judgmental. As for the community aspect, I can't say for certain, but feel free to PM me for more info overall if you want. :)
Last edited by Eichörnchen on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
wert3813
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:26 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Haven't been accepted, but talked about clinics in my interview. She mentioned that they have varying levels of competitiveness. How many would y'all say are competitive vs. "anybody can sign up," what types tend to be more competitive, and how selective are we talking?


I think competitive is sorta the wrong way to thing about it. I don't that there are many you have to "gun" for (Prosecution? SC clinic?). Often times there are more people than spots, but this is sorta the way you want it. Lots of empty clinical spaces is pretty inefficient. I've been told, and it seems to be true that if you are dead set on a clinical and pref it first sooner or later you will get it. Just my two cents.

Also this happens everywhere (ie ATL had an article on Yale yesterday about this).

User avatar
Lovely Ludwig Van
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:43 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:43 pm

Has anyone done the Summer Academic Fellowship before?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/fe ... ogram.html

Specifically, is it common for 1Ls to do this over their summer? How much work and how many pages usually go into these papers? Where do these papers usually get published? Do firms frown upon this as showing a lack of commitment to private practice?

TYIA!

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:24 pm

Lovely Ludwig Van wrote:Has anyone done the Summer Academic Fellowship before?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/fe ... ogram.html

Specifically, is it common for 1Ls to do this over their summer? How much work and how many pages usually go into these papers? Where do these papers usually get published? Do firms frown upon this as showing a lack of commitment to private practice?

TYIA!

1. Yes, 1Ls can do it.
2. The goal of the fellowship is to begin to create something publishable - so 30-50 pages for an essay, 50-80 for an article. I don't think you have to finish before the end of the summer, but you get $1,000 more if you do.
3. Where it gets published depends on how it does when you submit the article for publication...we're not talking student notes here.
4. People that I know with academic publications on their record seemed to do just fine at EIP.

tomwatts
Posts: 1551
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:01 am

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:40 pm

wert3813 wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Haven't been accepted, but talked about clinics in my interview. She mentioned that they have varying levels of competitiveness. How many would y'all say are competitive vs. "anybody can sign up," what types tend to be more competitive, and how selective are we talking?


I think competitive is sorta the wrong way to thing about it. I don't that there are many you have to "gun" for (Prosecution? SC clinic?). Often times there are more people than spots, but this is sorta the way you want it. Lots of empty clinical spaces is pretty inefficient. I've been told, and it seems to be true that if you are dead set on a clinical and pref it first sooner or later you will get it.

There are some clinics that you just need to preference #1 (e.g., US Attorney Clinic). But there are a few clinics (and a few classes) that you apply to (e.g., Supreme Court Clinic, Kagan's class on the previous Supreme Court term).

I don't know very well how hard it is to get into the classes you apply into. I've heard that the Semester in Washington clinic basically takes everyone who has a coherent reason to want to go. Other clinics and classes are much, much more selective. So it varies a lot. But it's not hard to predict which ones are hard to get into — if it has "Supreme Court" in the title, a lot of people want to do it.

I've heard that it's a bad idea to do the Summer Academic Fellowship as the only thing you do during the summer. Have some other law-related job, too, even if it's just 6 weeks or whatever.

User avatar
wert3813
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby wert3813 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:09 am

tomwatts wrote:
wert3813 wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Haven't been accepted, but talked about clinics in my interview. She mentioned that they have varying levels of competitiveness. How many would y'all say are competitive vs. "anybody can sign up," what types tend to be more competitive, and how selective are we talking?


I think competitive is sorta the wrong way to thing about it. I don't that there are many you have to "gun" for (Prosecution? SC clinic?). Often times there are more people than spots, but this is sorta the way you want it. Lots of empty clinical spaces is pretty inefficient. I've been told, and it seems to be true that if you are dead set on a clinical and pref it first sooner or later you will get it.

There are some clinics that you just need to preference #1 (e.g., US Attorney Clinic). But there are a few clinics (and a few classes) that you apply to (e.g., Supreme Court Clinic, Kagan's class on the previous Supreme Court term).

I don't know very well how hard it is to get into the classes you apply into. I've heard that the Semester in Washington clinic basically takes everyone who has a coherent reason to want to go. Other clinics and classes are much, much more selective. So it varies a lot. But it's not hard to predict which ones are hard to get into — if it has "Supreme Court" in the title, a lot of people want to do it.

I've heard that it's a bad idea to do the Summer Academic Fellowship as the only thing you do during the summer. Have some other law-related job, too, even if it's just 6 weeks or whatever.

I have had multiple people including the director tell me the bolded. Anyone know how hard the prosecution one is? And is it just preference or do you have to tryout/write on? You can only take it 3L fall and there are 16 spots for 560 or so.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: WamBam and 4 guests