Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
hellohi
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hellohi » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:49 pm

tomwatts wrote:
GertrudePerkins wrote:
hellohi wrote:Is there a large difference socially if you don't live on campus? Is HLS like undergrad where people get very tight with their dorm mates at the beginning or is it small enough that everyone knows everyone regardless of if you live close to each other or not? I guess basically I'm asking if you guys think there is a large social advantage to living on campus
No, I don't think there's any social advantage, let alone a big one. So many students don't live on campus. There's probably some disadvantage from living so far away that you can't readily walk to campus, and/or have to plan your time around the commute. But between living in Gropius vs. living, say, up by Porter? I don't think it really matters.

I think that being in Gropius has led me to meet and remain in contact with a bunch of people I wouldn't otherwise have. I don't know that this is an "advantage," exactly (what on earth is a "social advantage," anyway? how competitive are we, here?), but it's been a personal plus.

Gropius is generally reputed to be much more social than Hastings or North. I don't think that there's a huge social difference between living in Hastings/North/off-campus. But I do think that there's a noticeable social difference between living in Gropius and anywhere else.


Great thanks everyone! And yeah I realized social advantage probably wasnt the best wording. I meant is it easier to make friends

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:21 pm

Of course, the downside to living in Gropius that you have to live in Gropius.

lakers24fan
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lakers24fan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:00 am

I heard from a friend that HLS students get free shipping on Amazon... any truth to this?

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mr. Elshal » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:03 am

lakers24fan wrote:I heard from a friend that HLS students get free shipping on Amazon... any truth to this?


All students (at any school) can get the free shipping for 6 months, then it starts to cost $39 a year. I've got a decently large family so we've been doing this for a couple of years as more of us go to college and grad school. Once we ran out of free trial time we started the paid version and it's a really awesome service. Gonna get my next free six months once my year is up.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:21 pm

anybody take warren court with klarman?

The course description says there is a lot of reading but I'm interesting in talking to someone first hand how "hard" it is

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dcg2120
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby dcg2120 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:09 pm

Wormfather wrote:I hope that all of you guys (and loved ones) are ok.

:cry:

+1

chickenalfredo
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby chickenalfredo » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:22 pm

Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:26 pm

chickenalfredo wrote:Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?


Yes.

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Wonk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Wonk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:05 pm

ph14 wrote:
chickenalfredo wrote:Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?


Yes.

Could you elaborate a little? While the question is maybe a little extreme, I know many people who are questioning the value of doing the competition even without a $3k hit.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:09 pm

Wonk wrote:
ph14 wrote:
chickenalfredo wrote:Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?


Yes.

Could you elaborate a little? While the question is maybe a little extreme, I know many people who are questioning the value of doing the competition even without a $3k hit.


What exactly do you need elaboration on? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just am trying to understand your question more precisely so I can do a better job of answering it. But my basic thoughts: It's Harvard Law Review. The potential benefits of making the competition, in terms of a credential and experience, greatly outweigh the $3,000 in foregone summer associate money plus the time and effort put in the competition (which admittedly, is a lot of work and after a long 1L). Plus during your 2L summer you have something like 17 weeks. Many people take vacations and relax for a few weeks at least, but if you want to maximize your income you can try and split your summer or work more than 10 weeks at one firm.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:27 pm

ph14 wrote:
Wonk wrote:
ph14 wrote:
chickenalfredo wrote:Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?


Yes.

Could you elaborate a little? While the question is maybe a little extreme, I know many people who are questioning the value of doing the competition even without a $3k hit.


What exactly do you need elaboration on? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just am trying to understand your question more precisely so I can do a better job of answering it. But my basic thoughts: It's Harvard Law Review. The potential benefits of making the competition, in terms of a credential and experience, greatly outweigh the $3,000 in foregone summer associate money plus the time and effort put in the competition (which admittedly, is a lot of work and after a long 1L). Plus during your 2L summer you have something like 17 weeks. Many people take vacations and relax for a few weeks at least, but if you want to maximize your income you can try and split your summer or work more than 10 weeks at one firm.


Also, keep in mind that your chances of making it are better than they might appear at first. While a lot of people pick up the competition, a sizeable minority don't complete the competition, and i've heard that some people, while nominally completing the competition, don't put in their full effort. So your odds of making it might be better than you might think.

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:29 pm

ph14 wrote:
Wonk wrote:
ph14 wrote:
chickenalfredo wrote:Thoughts on the law review competition. Is it worth delaying work by a week and missing out on 3k to do it?


Yes.

Could you elaborate a little? While the question is maybe a little extreme, I know many people who are questioning the value of doing the competition even without a $3k hit.


What exactly do you need elaboration on? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just am trying to understand your question more precisely so I can do a better job of answering it. But my basic thoughts: It's Harvard Law Review. The potential benefits of making the competition, in terms of a credential and experience, greatly outweigh the $3,000 in foregone summer associate money plus the time and effort put in the competition (which admittedly, is a lot of work and after a long 1L). Plus during your 2L summer you have something like 17 weeks. Many people take vacations and relax for a few weeks at least, but if you want to maximize your income you can try and split your summer or work more than 10 weeks at one firm.

Why don't we do this the analytical methods way?
Potential value of Law Review: ?????
Odds of making Law Review: 15%
.15x=3,000 if x=$20,000. Is law review worth more than $20,000? As much as I hate to admit it since I didn't attempt the write on in my post 1L burnout haze, I think it undoubtedly is.

Mista Bojangles
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mista Bojangles » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:39 pm

Seems like it's conspicuously absent from this discussion any question of whether you actually want to do law review, aside from simply wanting to be on law review. If you think about what you're signing up for and allow yourself to answer the question honestly of whether actually doing law review appeals to you (again, aside from the obvious appeal of putting it on your resume), I think the question becomes easier. Ask a couple upperclassman what their week-to-week is, get a reasonably detailed description of it, and then think about whether you'd be into it.

I'm just a dumb 1L, but I feel like if you can honestly say you want do to HLR, why would you not do the competition? The competition is small in the bigger scheme of things if you genuinely want to do HLR. Personally, I've realized I genuinely don't, and I'm excited to GTFO of here right after finals, but until I thought about it on those terms, I'd kinda planned on doing the comp by default.

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Wonk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Wonk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:40 pm

Thanks ph14 and delusional. I wasn't trying to get at anything specific with my question, I've just had a lot of conversations with people, even those who wouldn't be forgoing a 1L SA week's salary, wondering whether to do the competition and wanted to hear some opinions in favor.

I've done that same math on likelihood of making it and agree it's a better chance than it seems at first. I've also been most convinced by people pointing out the leg up it can give for clerkships. I also do think I actually want to be on HLR, prestige aside.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:43 pm

Wonk wrote:Thanks ph14 and delusional. I wasn't trying to get at anything specific with my question, I've just had a lot of conversations with people, even those who wouldn't be forgoing a 1L SA week's salary, wondering whether to do the competition and wanted to hear some opinions in favor.

I've done that same math on likelihood of making it and agree it's a better chance than it seems at first. I've also been most convinced by people pointing out the leg up it can give for clerkships. I also do think I actually want to be on HLR, prestige aside.


What were the conversations about in terms of whether to do the competition? They sounded negative, what was their thinking?

Also, keep in mind that preferences change. At this point in time you might not want to do the HLR work, but who knows, maybe you will end up really liking it? The thing about the competition is that it is a one-time deal. You might change your mind/thoughts later. Unless you are absolutely certain you don't want to do it, I think it would be worth trying. You can always decline the offer later.

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Wonk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Wonk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:48 pm

ph14 wrote:
Wonk wrote:Thanks ph14 and delusional. I wasn't trying to get at anything specific with my question, I've just had a lot of conversations with people, even those who wouldn't be forgoing a 1L SA week's salary, wondering whether to do the competition and wanted to hear some opinions in favor.

I've done that same math on likelihood of making it and agree it's a better chance than it seems at first. I've also been most convinced by people pointing out the leg up it can give for clerkships. I also do think I actually want to be on HLR, prestige aside.


What were the conversations about in terms of whether to do the competition? They sounded negative, what was their thinking?

Also, keep in mind that preferences change. At this point in time you might not want to do the HLR work, but who knows, maybe you will end up really liking it? The thing about the competition is that it is a one-time deal. You might change your mind/thoughts later. Unless you are absolutely certain you don't want to do it, I think it would be worth trying. You can always decline the offer later.

I'm definitely doing the competition, for all the reasons stated so far. I'd say the conversations against have been mostly "it's just prestige for your resume" and worrying about workload/fitting in with "HLR people."

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:55 pm

Wonk wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Wonk wrote:Thanks ph14 and delusional. I wasn't trying to get at anything specific with my question, I've just had a lot of conversations with people, even those who wouldn't be forgoing a 1L SA week's salary, wondering whether to do the competition and wanted to hear some opinions in favor.

I've done that same math on likelihood of making it and agree it's a better chance than it seems at first. I've also been most convinced by people pointing out the leg up it can give for clerkships. I also do think I actually want to be on HLR, prestige aside.


What were the conversations about in terms of whether to do the competition? They sounded negative, what was their thinking?

Also, keep in mind that preferences change. At this point in time you might not want to do the HLR work, but who knows, maybe you will end up really liking it? The thing about the competition is that it is a one-time deal. You might change your mind/thoughts later. Unless you are absolutely certain you don't want to do it, I think it would be worth trying. You can always decline the offer later.

I'm definitely doing the competition, for all the reasons stated so far. I'd say the conversations against have been mostly "it's just prestige for your resume" and worrying about workload/fitting in with "HLR people."


1. Prestige is part of it, but also keep in mind that you do learn and improve your skills. You'll know the Bluebook inside and out (which is actually surprisingly useful). That makes you look like you pay attention to detail and helps you stand out, plus you will be able to do more cites from memory, which is kind of handy so you don't have to interrupt your work to go look up the cite form. People actually use the Bluebook in the real world (sans Posner). You will also improve your critical thinking, writing skills, and self-discipline, etc. Note to say that any of this is necessarily HLR specific, but because of the sheer amount of work i'd imagine it improves certain skills more than other journals. But also note that groups such as the BSA and HLAB teach you skills that HLR doesn't, so that's something to keep in mind.
2. Workload is a lot. You'll probably get used to it. Lots of time management.
3. HLR people are fine, and I wouldn't necessarily paint them with a monolithic brush anymore than I would say "worrying about fitting in with HLS people." There are a lot of different types of people. You don't have to make them your primary social group either, anymore than you would any other journal you are involved with.

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:03 pm

ph14 wrote:
Also, keep in mind that your chances of making it are better than they might appear at first. While a lot of people pick up the competition, a sizeable minority don't complete the competition, and i've heard that some people, while nominally completing the competition, don't put in their full effort. So your odds of making it might be better than you might think.

Yeah but I didn't give myself much of a chance to begin with.

Assuming 300 people pick up the test packet, 100 dont turn it in, and another 50 dont put in good faith effort, then that means you are competing against 150 people who worked pretty hard on it. Given how there's only 20 or so pure write on slots (my grades arent good enough to be top 2 in my section and I don't qualify for any sort of discretionary bump), then you still have to be in the top 15% or so...which is pretty crappy odds imho

Mista Bojangles
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Mista Bojangles » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:04 pm

ph14 wrote:2. Workload is a lot. You'll probably get used to it. Lots of time management.


On this point - is there any practical reason that HLR doesn't expand its membership, in order to give each member a more reasonable workload than the 25 hrs/week that ppl say it is? Is it mostly a matter of not wanting to dilute the HLR prestige/mystique?

I mean, most schools already have a far higher % of their student body on law review. Y and S certainly do

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Wonk
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Wonk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:07 pm

Not to derail the HLR discussion, which is interesting, but does anyone have any advice on getting into a class that is enrolled by application? Just requires a CV and statement of interest.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:11 pm

BelugaWhale wrote:
ph14 wrote:
Also, keep in mind that your chances of making it are better than they might appear at first. While a lot of people pick up the competition, a sizeable minority don't complete the competition, and i've heard that some people, while nominally completing the competition, don't put in their full effort. So your odds of making it might be better than you might think.

Yeah but I didn't give myself much of a chance to begin with.

Assuming 300 people pick up the test packet, 100 dont turn it in, and another 50 dont put in good faith effort, then that means you are competing against 150 people who worked pretty hard on it. Given how there's only 20 or so pure write on slots (my grades arent good enough to be top 2 in my section and I don't qualify for any sort of discretionary bump), then you still have to be in the top 15% or so...which is pretty crappy odds imho


Maybe, but you never know until you take the competition.

Mista Bojangles wrote:
ph14 wrote:2. Workload is a lot. You'll probably get used to it. Lots of time management.


On this point - is there any practical reason that HLR doesn't expand its membership, in order to give each member a more reasonable workload than the 25 hrs/week that ppl say it is? Is it mostly a matter of not wanting to dilute the HLR prestige/mystique?

I mean, most schools already have a far higher % of their student body on law review. Y and S certainly do


Well, the body is being expanded by 2 editors, although that won't decrease the amount of work anyone has to do, because the law review is increasing its online presence, so it will all even out in the end. It's hard to say why, exactly. Probably a lot of it is institutional inertia, a perception (whether accurate or not) of not wanting to dilute the credential, and also people enjoying the challenge/intensity of the experience.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:12 pm

Wonk wrote:Not to derail the HLR discussion, which is interesting, but does anyone have any advice on getting into a class that is enrolled by application? Just requires a CV and statement of interest.


Express a lot of genuine interest, I would guess. I also seem to recall those often having open seats available in them by the firesale, so i'm not sure if a lot of them are extremely competitive, with the exception of some of the classes or reading groups with the big name professors/visitors (e.g., J. Kagan's reading group).

dafaz16
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby dafaz16 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:39 pm

Anyone got an opinion on Lani Guinier's "Law and the Political Process"?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:44 pm

dafaz16 wrote:Anyone got an opinion on Lani Guinier's "Law and the Political Process"?

I talked to one person who took it and really liked it. It's sort of a voting rights class with the Guinier spin.

jbs17
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby jbs17 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:57 pm

What's the deal with Mackinnon's class? Is the final in October after the last class, or during the normal period? And what's the consensus on it?




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