Top Law Schools

tomwatts wrote:

Mista Bojangles wrote:Could I justify not doing it under a theory that if I don't get BSA, I likely wouldn't have gotten HLR either?

They're selecting for different things on the basis of different applications, and there's a significant degree of chance in both applications, so no.

This. Apply to both.

ph14 wrote:

spyke123 wrote:hey guys, thanks for answering questions!

I was just curious, what is the rough grade cutoff to land V10? Do people at median even have a chance?

It's possible. But v10 is a meaningless distinction so.

why do you say that? sorry for being a nub 0L. im aiming for a top M&A shop in nyc if that makes a difference.

spyke123 wrote:

ph14 wrote:

spyke123 wrote:hey guys, thanks for answering questions!

I was just curious, what is the rough grade cutoff to land V10? Do people at median even have a chance?

It's possible. But v10 is a meaningless distinction so.

why do you say that? sorry for being a nub 0L. im aiming for a top M&A shop in nyc if that makes a difference.

No hard cutoff. People routinely get V10 from below median.

One thing you'll find is that, at least among NYC shops that aren't Wachtell (or to a lesser extent S&C), grades correlate very weakly to EIP outcomes. You probably won't have a ton of choices if you get straight Ps or a couple LPs, but someone with 2-3 H's has a very real shot at V10 (or even V5) firms. They have huge classes, they love to hire HLS students, and they're willing to dip pretty deep in the class to hire students who they think are a good match.

If you want to work in DC or on the West Coast, you will have less room for error. I know plenty of people who got those jobs with middling grades, but I also know people with 5-7 H's who struck out in DC or SF (although they ended up at firms in NY, LA, or Chicago, so it's not like you will end up unemployed unless your bidding is extremely risky).

hlsperson1111 wrote:One thing you'll find is that, at least among NYC shops that aren't Wachtell (or to a lesser extent S&C), grades correlate very weakly to EIP outcomes. You probably won't have a ton of choices if you get straight Ps or a couple LPs, but someone with 2-3 H's has a very real shot at V10 (or even V5) firms. They have huge classes, they love to hire HLS students, and they're willing to dip pretty deep in the class to hire students who they think are a good match.

If you want to work in DC or on the West Coast, you will have less room for error. I know plenty of people who got those jobs with middling grades, but I also know people with 5-7 H's who struck out in DC or SF (although they ended up at firms in NY, LA, or Chicago, so it's not like you will end up unemployed unless your bidding is extremely risky).

Would you say SF is a very popular destination for HLS kids? or is the market just a lot smaller/competitive like DC?

in my section 1/4 of the people are from cali, almost all of them want to go back there...its a major market for sure

any anecdotal stories about current classmates who went through the hold/waitlist ringer?

spyke123 wrote:

hlsperson1111 wrote:One thing you'll find is that, at least among NYC shops that aren't Wachtell (or to a lesser extent S&C), grades correlate very weakly to EIP outcomes. You probably won't have a ton of choices if you get straight Ps or a couple LPs, but someone with 2-3 H's has a very real shot at V10 (or even V5) firms. They have huge classes, they love to hire HLS students, and they're willing to dip pretty deep in the class to hire students who they think are a good match.

If you want to work in DC or on the West Coast, you will have less room for error. I know plenty of people who got those jobs with middling grades, but I also know people with 5-7 H's who struck out in DC or SF (although they ended up at firms in NY, LA, or Chicago, so it's not like you will end up unemployed unless your bidding is extremely risky).

Would you say SF is a very popular destination for HLS kids? or is the market just a lot smaller/competitive like DC?

I think DC attracts higher quality students (tons of law review types) but SF is smaller and cares more about ties - so they both end up being very competitive. I wouldn't say it's 'incredibly popular' but reasonably so, in line with LAand less than NY/DC.

..

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You're an admit. They want you here. They aren't going to not let you come in March.

I dno if it's too late to stay with a student. They have a list of students who have volunteered to host. My guess is that they'd make sure you have somewhere to stay.

az21833 wrote:any anecdotal stories about current classmates who went through the hold/waitlist ringer?

What's your question?

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

PMan99 wrote:

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

BelugaWhale wrote: I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

ugh. do people seriously go around talking about things like that? i do know one tool who likes to make sure everyone knows that he chose HLS over yale, but he's the exception to the rule in my experience

BelugaWhale wrote:

PMan99 wrote:

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

Not to go Benedict Arnold on Harvard, but I can't really think of a single instance where it makes sense to take H. The marginal advantage in academia/clerkships (if there is one) isn't worth 60k a year /w compounding interest. Plus, the more top students that go to Chicago on a scholarship, the more the administration has to look at itself in the mirror and bring tuition under control.

PMan99 wrote:

BelugaWhale wrote:

PMan99 wrote:

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

Not to go Benedict Arnold on Harvard, but I can't really think of a single instance where it makes sense to take H. The marginal advantage in academia/clerkships (if there is one) isn't worth 60k a year /w compounding interest. Plus, the more top students that go to Chicago on a scholarship, the more the administration has to look at itself in the mirror and bring tuition under control.

What if you're interested in politics/public policy/lobbying somewhere down the road? Isn't Harvard going to provide a decided edge over Chicago in those areas?

fluffythepenguin wrote:

PMan99 wrote:

BelugaWhale wrote:

PMan99 wrote:
You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

Not to go Benedict Arnold on Harvard, but I can't really think of a single instance where it makes sense to take H. The marginal advantage in academia/clerkships (if there is one) isn't worth 60k a year /w compounding interest. Plus, the more top students that go to Chicago on a scholarship, the more the administration has to look at itself in the mirror and bring tuition under control.

What if you're interested in politics/public policy/lobbying somewhere down the road? Isn't Harvard going to provide a decided edge over Chicago in those areas?

Not as much as a ton of other factors. School isn't really the important thing in those fields. Its all about the connections you make. School matters to the extent that it might give you an in to certain networks but it will be marginal compared to other factors required for success in those fields.

I wouldn't recommend H over a full-scholarship at Chicago to anyone. The only circumstances where it might be a close call is when you are expecting max aid at Harvard. Even then, I would still lean towards Chicago.

^ one of my profs who taught at UChi for several years remarked on a near-weekly basis how much happier we all seemed than his students at Chicago. That's gotta be worth something.

az21833 wrote:any anecdotal stories about current classmates who went through the hold/waitlist ringer?

One of my PSW group members mentioned (in context, I don't remember how this came up) that he was in his first week at another law school that started slightly before Harvard does when he got an admit call from Harvard. He picked up everything and moved here. That's the most extreme I've ever heard of in terms of "off the waitlist" stories.

tomwatts wrote:

az21833 wrote:any anecdotal stories about current classmates who went through the hold/waitlist ringer?

One of my PSW group members mentioned (in context, I don't remember how this came up) that he was in his first week at another law school that started slightly before Harvard does when he got an admit call from Harvard. He picked up everything and moved here. That's the most extreme I've ever heard of in terms of "off the waitlist" stories.

My goodness. Wow.

Thoughts on the semester in DC program? Anyone done it?

Can someone walk me through clinicals more generally? I know your capped on clinic credits, I know there is often a class that goes with it, and I believe it is not like Stanford where there is a specific semester that you just do clinicals.

Can someone fill in the how many hours, what those semesters look like, how much of your education is clinical v. class, whether this often lead to PI jobs (assuming a PI clinical). Anything else you think would be good to know would be much appreciated.

How popular is studying abroad for a semester? has anyone done it? loved/hated it? pros/cons? I regretted not doing it while in ug and thinking about possibly doing it this time around..

BelugaWhale wrote:

PMan99 wrote:

Spritzpiggy wrote:Off-topic question, but its pretty pressing so here goes: I just registered for the April ASW on Friday morning and found out after COB that I got a Ruby from Chicago (!!!). The deadline to accept the Ruby is April 15th and I want to be able to visit Harvard before making up my mind. Since Harvards April ASW is after the 15th I need to switch the the March date. I just bought the plane ticket and am emailing HLS to request the change to March now. The ticket will be non-refundable after 9 am tomorrow, so by the time Harvard responds to my request it will be too late to cancel. Do you think they will be able to accommodate one more at the March ASW or am I about to throw away $400? Also, I know student lodging is on a first-come basis so will it be too late to stay with a student? Anyone want to adopt me for a few days while I am there? I will bring you cookies/beer/whatever. I would only take up 5'9" of floorspace.

You'll be throwing away $200,000 if you go to Harvard over taking the Ruby.

I personally know 4 people who came here over going to uchi with ruby. It's a tough choice, but I dont think its as clear cut as you make it out to be. At least the OP, imho , is correct in visiting the schools before making the decision

Didn't like Chicago when I visited, loved Harvard when I came here for ASW. With that being said if I got a Ruby from Chicago and had to pay cost at Harvard, that would be an exceptionally easy decision for me. The freedom to do whatever I want after law school with no debt is more than worth the hit in job opportunities for me.

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

if the only difference between uchi and hls is cost of living, then go to HLS hands down.