Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:07 pm

19871987 wrote:Does anyone know how heavily grades are weighed (versus writing competition) in determining law review selection? i.e. is it the kind of thing where you probably shouldn't waste your time doing the competition if you got any P's fall semester?


A lot of spots are based purely on the basis of your score in the writing competition.

az21833
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby az21833 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:25 pm

is it combo of grade on, write on and mix?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:29 pm

az21833 wrote:is it combo of grade on, write on and mix


14 grade ons 20 write ons 10 discretionary/diversity spots. 2 spots will be added somewhere.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:55 pm

Highly unlikely anyone knows the answer to this, but I thought, eh why the hell not ask. Anyone know what the magna and cum laude GPA cutoffs are? Maybe approximations from the last few yrs? Not published anywhere since we began using our current grading system -- so black box -- and I am sort of curious so I can gauge the appropriate effort level I should be pushing out my last semester lol.

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:37 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:Highly unlikely anyone knows the answer to this, but I thought, eh why the hell not ask. Anyone know what the magna and cum laude GPA cutoffs are? Maybe approximations from the last few yrs? Not published anywhere since we began using our current grading system -- so black box -- and I am sort of curious so I can gauge the appropriate effort level I should be pushing out my last semester lol.
I searched for this and apparently the sparse online consensus was 3.55-3.6 for Cum Laude and 3.9 for Magna. But I have nothing to back this up and the numbers match exactly what someone might pull out of a hat.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: LR competition - I know people with 5-6 P's 1L year who got onto LR, and there's at least one person at HLS who missed out despite winning the Sears Prize. If you want to be on LR, do the competition, take it seriously, and pray to whatever higher power you believe in. Really good grades can help get you on, but less-good grades won't keep you off.

justinp
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby justinp » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:38 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:Re: LR competition - I know people with 5-6 P's 1L year who got onto LR, and there's at least one person at HLS who missed out despite winning the Sears Prize. If you want to be on LR, do the competition, take it seriously, and pray to whatever higher power you believe in. Really good grades can help get you on, but less-good grades won't keep you off.


How could someone not make LR if they got the Sears prize? There are 2 grade-on spots per section...

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:47 pm

justinp wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:Re: LR competition - I know people with 5-6 P's 1L year who got onto LR, and there's at least one person at HLS who missed out despite winning the Sears Prize. If you want to be on LR, do the competition, take it seriously, and pray to whatever higher power you believe in. Really good grades can help get you on, but less-good grades won't keep you off.


How could someone not make LR if they got the Sears prize? There are 2 grade-on spots per section...

Maybe they didn't enter the competition, thinking that they would be judged by writing as well.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:54 pm

It's not pure grade on. Grade ons are 50% grades amd 50% writing scores. And remember to follow directions.

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holmes
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby holmes » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:18 am

ph14 wrote:It's not pure grade on. Grade ons are 50% grades amd 50% writing scores. And remember to follow directions.


Not to be annoying, but is this really the formula? I had never seen actual weights for the two parts before, and I thought it was a secret.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:27 am

holmes wrote:
ph14 wrote:It's not pure grade on. Grade ons are 50% grades amd 50% writing scores. And remember to follow directions.


Not to be annoying, but is this really the formula? I had never seen actual weights for the two parts before, and I thought it was a secret.


Yes really and it's not a secret. Write on spots are 100% writing competition scores.

PMan99
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby PMan99 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:56 am

ph14 wrote:
holmes wrote:
ph14 wrote:It's not pure grade on. Grade ons are 50% grades amd 50% writing scores. And remember to follow directions.


Not to be annoying, but is this really the formula? I had never seen actual weights for the two parts before, and I thought it was a secret.


Yes really and it's not a secret. Write on spots are 100% writing competition scores.


I've never heard that formula before. Everyone, including LR people, say good faith effort even if there is some "formula" that HLR is supposed to adhere to.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:01 am

PMan99 wrote:
ph14 wrote:discloseolmes"]
ph14 wrote:It's not pure grade on. Grade ons are 50% grades amd 50% writing scores. And remember to follow directions.


Not to be annoying, but is this really the formula? I had never seen actual weights for the two parts before, and I thought it was a secret.


Yes really and it's not a secret. Write on spots are 100% writing competition scores.


I've never heard that formula before. Everyone, including LR people, say good faith effort even if there is some "formula" that HLR is supposed to adhere to.[/quote]

Well, that's the formula they disclose is used to calculate grade ons. I assume that they comply with that formula.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:17 am

delusional wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:Highly unlikely anyone knows the answer to this, but I thought, eh why the hell not ask. Anyone know what the magna and cum laude GPA cutoffs are? Maybe approximations from the last few yrs? Not published anywhere since we began using our current grading system -- so black box -- and I am sort of curious so I can gauge the appropriate effort level I should be pushing out my last semester lol.
I searched for this and apparently the sparse online consensus was 3.55-3.6 for Cum Laude and 3.9 for Magna. But I have nothing to back this up and the numbers match exactly what someone might pull out of a hat.


From looking into this a bit in the past, I thought the answer was around there. sigh* kinda hoped it would have been lower or higher to make my decision easier lol. thanks for the reply though!

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BelugaWhale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby BelugaWhale » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:45 pm

HLR now expanding affirmative action to include women

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/ ... ve-action/

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Spritzpiggy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Spritzpiggy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:07 pm

I have to admit that, as a female, the dearth of women on the law review is actually the single thing that most concerns me about attending Harvard. I am worried it is a reflection on the academic culture as a whole. But now I am torn, because I am not a fan of any policies that give any group an advantage over another solely because of their genetic characteristics (even in this instance, where I stand to benefit). In general, what is the attitude towards women at H? I read a disappointing study that they received lower grades overall and so forth.

AllTheLawz
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby AllTheLawz » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm

Spritzpiggy wrote:I have to admit that, as a female, the dearth of women on the law review is actually the single thing that most concerns me about attending Harvard. I am worried it is a reflection on the academic culture as a whole. But now I am torn, because I am not a fan of any policies that give any group an advantage over another solely because of their genetic characteristics (even in this instance, where I stand to benefit). In general, what is the attitude towards women at H? I read a disappointing study that they received lower grades overall and so forth.


It doesn't reflect on the academic culture at H. There is no attitude towards women at H.

I am not going to get myself into trouble by speculating on why the differences exist but I can guarantee you that it is not due to a difference that is uniquely present at H. Just because a difference exists does not mean that it is because of some institutional bias.

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Spritzpiggy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Spritzpiggy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:25 pm

I will have to find that study because it does show that H has somewhere around half the number of females on its LR as other top schools. That's why I was concerned it was something institutionalized at the school. I wonder what other reasons for this disparity would be. Anyways, I know from chatting with you before that I respect your view Allthelawz so thanks for your feedback.

Edit: I can't find the study on my phone so all I can remember is that Michigan has good female representation. I did find the research on female experiences at H which is here in case anyone else is interested (on phone so hopefully this works): http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/exp ... Report.pdf

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:58 pm

The real answer is that no one knows exactly why women are underrepresented on HLR.

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Spritzpiggy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Spritzpiggy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:20 pm

Here's a gem I found: In 1997, the Law Review did a major survey of the entire law school student body to find out what was going on. It turned out that the women and men who actually applied to be on Law Review were admitted at equal rates. The problem was that fewer women applied.

Hopefully this will keep anyone from being concerned as I previously was. Obviously not an institutional bias if less apply in general. This actually makes me upset that H took the current step - I wish there were an opt out :( (not that I will actually be on it regardless but still - I would hate to think I got there thanks to ladyparts lol)

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:30 pm

Spritzpiggy wrote:Here's a gem I found: In 1997, the Law Review did a major survey of the entire law school student body to find out what was going on. It turned out that the women and men who actually applied to be on Law Review were admitted at equal rates. The problem was that fewer women applied.

Hopefully this will keep anyone from being concerned as I previously was. Obviously not an institutional bias if less apply in general. This actually makes me upset that H took the current step - I wish there were an opt out :( (not that I will actually be on it regardless but still - I would hate to think I got there thanks to ladyparts lol)


There is an opt out. And today men and women take the writing competition roughly proportionate to the student body.

delusional
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby delusional » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:38 pm

ph14 wrote:The real answer is that no one knows exactly why women are underrepresented on HLR.

Given that as you say, men and women apply in equal proportions, and the admissions process is anonymous, "exactly why" has a very specific meaning.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:39 pm

delusional wrote:
ph14 wrote:The real answer is that no one knows exactly why women are underrepresented on HLR.

Given that as you say, men and women apply in equal proportions, and the admissions process is anonymous, "exactly why" has a very specific meaning.


Huh?

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Spritzpiggy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Spritzpiggy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:41 pm

To ph14 post: First part = awesome. Second part, less so. Now I'm back to wondering what's up and taking the findings of the recent study on women at H with more weight. Oh well.

Anyways, to change topic, how realistic is it to work 1L year? Thinking 10 hrs a week or so and I don't anticipate this being overwhelming but if anyone has had the experience and can share I would appreciate it.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:46 pm

Spritzpiggy wrote:To ph14 post: First part = awesome. Second part, less so. Now I'm back to wondering what's up and taking the findings of the recent study on women at H with more weight. Oh well.

Anyways, to change topic, how realistic is it to work 1L year? Thinking 10 hrs a week or so and I don't anticipate this being overwhelming but if anyone has had the experience and can share I would appreciate it.


Not realistic unless we are talking RA work or something. It would be a bad idea though.




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