Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[Mack.Hambleton]

Is there any way to search just this thread? I have a few questions about choosing 1L Spring Electives that have probably been covered extensively.

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[Indifference]

Is there any way to search just this thread? I have a few questions about choosing 1L Spring Electives that have probably been covered extensively.

There is a "search this topic" bar up top. ETA: on mobile.

[robotrick]

site:top-law-schools.com "t=141188" [your search terms]

[mino]

If you're thinking of doing Negotiation Workshop at any time during your time at HLS, I'd recommend doing it in the Spring of 1L. It's a super popular class and you'll usually need to preference it first if you're trying to do it 2L or 3L. I'd recommend saving your number one preference for something else (Klarman/Feldman for con law, Warren for tax, trial advocacy workshop, etc.) and use that application to get Negotiation Workshop instead.

Is the workload for the workshop a lot to handle during 1L? I definitely want to take it, but am concerned that its 8 hours. Is it manageable?

Honestly I didn't find it that bad. It does become a defining point of your spring because of the number of hours but the most time intensive component is the class. The other components include:
1. Weekly theoretical reading (no one did this)
2. Reading the prompt for the mock negotiation you'll do in class (prep time varies from 15 min - 2 hours depending on how into it you want to get)
3. Weekly reflection paper (honestly this is just a stream of consciousness paper - took me 30 min a week tops)
4. Capstone Negotiation and final paper - milage will vary but neither are extremely difficult

It was also super nice not having 4 exams in the spring semester (but this would also be true for any paper-based elective you take).

[despina]

Negotiation workshop. 1L spring. Do it.

I think I've written pretty extensively about it in here, this time every year. One thing I'll repeat is that it's easiest to get in as a 1L (the great majority of those who apply get in), while in subsequent years you have to preference it #1 and still might not ever get it, which "wastes" a #1 referencing spot.

[tomwatts]

(the great majority of those who apply get in)

Really? That makes it even more annoying that I didn't get in as a 1L.

(Obviously, not everyone gets in.)

[despina]

(the great majority of those who apply get in)

Really? That makes it even more annoying that I didn't get in as a 1L.

(Obviously, not everyone gets in.)

It varies a bit year-to-year depending on how many sections are ineligible because their class schedules conflict. My 1L year, there were two sections who couldn't participate, and I only know one person who didn't get in (and I doubt he took the application even halfway seriously). If only one or no sections have a conflict, it may be tougher, but still a much better bet than a #1 preference as a 2L/3L.

[pylon]

site:top-law-schools.com "t=141188" [your search terms]

Thanks - this is perfect.

I had tried the others but it was just searching the entire "Ask a Law Student" topic unfortunately (or maybe I was doing something wrong).

[DreamShake94]

Anyone ever take Clark & Strine M&A?

For a class w/ so many people in it every year, it has a dearth of model exams online. Can anyone PM me if they have & know someone who really aced that class?

Thanks

[Mack.Hambleton]

Couple 1L SA questions:

Should we actually apply before Dec 1 (based on rumors of firms filling up by then)

Is getting a 1L SA based on grades, and if so how much?

How to find out if smaller market firms will even take 1L SAs?

[throwaway_]

Couple 1L SA questions:

Should we actually apply before Dec 1 (based on rumors of firms filling up by then)

Is getting a 1L SA based on grades, and if so how much?

How to find out if smaller market firms will even take 1L SAs?

1. Not sure about before Dec 1, but earlier is definitely better. I waited until Jan and got very lucky. If you send in everything on Dec 1, I doubt you'll be at any disadvantage.

2. Matter more for the more selective firms (eg. V5s), but no hard and fast rule. There, prior work experience is also very important, and interviewing skills. One way or another, at those places it's basically a crapshoot. If diversity SAs, then grades probably less important. If at a firm that traditionally takes in no H students, your grades probably matter very little.

3. First step would be looking to last year's employment guide (for Class of 2017). If looking at a very specific market, e.g., Twin Cities, no harm just spamming all firms there.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Couple 1L SA questions:

Should we actually apply before Dec 1 (based on rumors of firms filling up by then)

Is getting a 1L SA based on grades, and if so how much?

How to find out if smaller market firms will even take 1L SAs?

1. Not sure about before Dec 1, but earlier is definitely better. I waited until Jan and got very lucky. If you send in everything on Dec 1, I doubt you'll be at any disadvantage.

2. Matter more for the more selective firms (eg. V5s), but no hard and fast rule. There, prior work experience is also very important, and interviewing skills. One way or another, at those places it's basically a crapshoot. If diversity SAs, then grades probably less important. If at a firm that traditionally takes in no H students, your grades probably matter very little.

3. First step would be looking to last year's employment guide (for Class of 2017). If looking at a very specific market, e.g., Twin Cities, no harm just spamming all firms there.

you should search this thread as all these questions have been discussed exhaustively. to save you some time, the conclusions are that yes you should apply before Dec 1, grades don't really matter for 1l sas, and find out by applying

[LS2515]

Applying before 12/1 is a direct violation of NALP rules. Apply ON 12/1, not before.

[Mack.Hambleton]

are any firms worth doing 1LSAs at not on NALP?

[S.Lee2018]

If you're thinking of doing Negotiation Workshop at any time during your time at HLS, I'd recommend doing it in the Spring of 1L. It's a super popular class and you'll usually need to preference it first if you're trying to do it 2L or 3L. I'd recommend saving your number one preference for something else (Klarman/Feldman for con law, Warren for tax, trial advocacy workshop, etc.) and use that application to get Negotiation Workshop instead.

Is the workload for the workshop a lot to handle during 1L? I definitely want to take it, but am concerned that its 8 hours. Is it manageable?

Honestly I didn't find it that bad. It does become a defining point of your spring because of the number of hours but the most time intensive component is the class. The other components include:
1. Weekly theoretical reading (no one did this)
2. Reading the prompt for the mock negotiation you'll do in class (prep time varies from 15 min - 2 hours depending on how into it you want to get)
3. Weekly reflection paper (honestly this is just a stream of consciousness paper - took me 30 min a week tops)
4. Capstone Negotiation and final paper - milage will vary but neither are extremely difficult

It was also super nice not having 4 exams in the spring semester (but this would also be true for any paper-based elective you take).

What's so good about Negotiation Workshop?

[heythatslife]

If you're thinking of doing Negotiation Workshop at any time during your time at HLS, I'd recommend doing it in the Spring of 1L. It's a super popular class and you'll usually need to preference it first if you're trying to do it 2L or 3L. I'd recommend saving your number one preference for something else (Klarman/Feldman for con law, Warren for tax, trial advocacy workshop, etc.) and use that application to get Negotiation Workshop instead.

Is the workload for the workshop a lot to handle during 1L? I definitely want to take it, but am concerned that its 8 hours. Is it manageable?

Honestly I didn't find it that bad. It does become a defining point of your spring because of the number of hours but the most time intensive component is the class. The other components include:
1. Weekly theoretical reading (no one did this)
2. Reading the prompt for the mock negotiation you'll do in class (prep time varies from 15 min - 2 hours depending on how into it you want to get)
3. Weekly reflection paper (honestly this is just a stream of consciousness paper - took me 30 min a week tops)
4. Capstone Negotiation and final paper - milage will vary but neither are extremely difficult

It was also super nice not having 4 exams in the spring semester (but this would also be true for any paper-based elective you take).

What's so good about Negotiation Workshop?

Not having to read a casebook for a change, and unlike most other law school courses the stuff you learn will actually be applicable to many walks of life.

[Veronica2015]

Any comment on these 1L intl law electives? Can’t find much info in the thread. I have little interest in international law, so I really just want a course with less work to do. It would be great if coupled with relatively engaging materials. Thanks!

International Law and Human Rights - Professor Samuel Moyn
International Law in the US Legal System - Professor Jack Goldsmith
Comparative Law: Why Law? Lessons from China - Professor William Alford
International Economic Law - Professor Odette Lienau
Law and the International Economy - Professor Mark Wu
Public International Law - Professor Kenneth Anderson
Public International Law - Professor Gabriella Blum

Besides, is it a bad idea to take evidence 1L spring? The Honorable Peter Rubin teaches in the spring. It meets for two hours a week so doesn't seem like a big time commitment. Though the judge is rated "LP" in Dope for unknown reasons...

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Applying before 12/1 is a direct violation of NALP rules. Apply ON 12/1, not before.

I don't really care to get into this argument again as it's been discussed ad nauseam so id just say anyone interested in this topic (or potentially deterred from applying early by the prospect of "violating" a "NALP rule") should look back at this thread for fuller discussion

Besides, is it a bad idea to take evidence 1L spring? The Honorable Peter Rubin teaches in the spring. It meets for two hours a week so doesn't seem like a big time commitment. Though the judge is rated "LP" in Dope for unknown reasons...

Nothing wrong with taking it as a 1L, and it can be helpful to take early as it's a pre-req for a couple things. I was surprised when you said Rubin has an LP so I looked him up and it looks like he has a solid 4.5/5 on HLSDope. He's hilarious, witty, and one of the most engaging profs I've taken at HLS. Reasonable workload, moves slowly through the material and explains things clearly... hidden gem IMO. I think he's often overlooked because so many other big names teach evidence regularly.

[ScratchableItch]

Nothing wrong with taking it as a 1L, and it can be helpful to take early as it's a pre-req for a couple things. I was surprised when you said Rubin has an LP so I looked him up and it looks like he has a solid 4.5/5 on HLSDope. He's hilarious, witty, and one of the most engaging profs I've taken at HLS. Reasonable workload, moves slowly through the material and explains things clearly... hidden gem IMO. I think he's often overlooked because so many other big names teach evidence regularly.

I completely agree. I took Rubin for Evidence and I really enjoyed his class and teaching style. It has been one of my favorite classes at HLS!

[romanesque]

-

[codyoneill]

Hi all, sorry if this has been answered.

For HLR competition, do you have to be physically present for the whole week? Might have to be in NYC one evening, don't want to torpedo my chances, but have to decide now.

Don't need to be physically present at all. You work on the competition by yourself wherever you want.
But most people taking the competition, wherever they are, devote the entire week to just working on the competition, with minimal breaks.

Travel back and forth to NYC will cut into your time significantly. The competition is brutal and you're trying to cram weeks worth of work into a one-week stretch. You want every advantage you can get. Losing hours for travel and whatever you need to do in NYC will not help. That being said, I'm sure people have pulled it off.

FWIW one of my professors advised me going into the competition: This is a great opportunity to see how far you can push yourself. At certain points in your career you'll need to have those kind of weeks, and it's good practice.

[heythatslife]

Any comment on these 1L intl law electives? Can’t find much info in the thread. I have little interest in international law, so I really just want a course with less work to do. It would be great if coupled with relatively engaging materials. Thanks!

International Law and Human Rights - Professor Samuel Moyn
International Law in the US Legal System - Professor Jack Goldsmith
Comparative Law: Why Law? Lessons from China - Professor William Alford
International Economic Law - Professor Odette Lienau
Law and the International Economy - Professor Mark Wu
Public International Law - Professor Kenneth Anderson
Public International Law - Professor Gabriella Blum

Besides, is it a bad idea to take evidence 1L spring? The Honorable Peter Rubin teaches in the spring. It meets for two hours a week so doesn't seem like a big time commitment. Though the judge is rated "LP" in Dope for unknown reasons...

If minimizing workload is the goal, I've been told Alford's China class is the way to go.

[Veronica2015]

Has anyone taken Civil Rights Litigation by Scott Michelman?

[lawlorbust]

Hi all, sorry if this has been answered.

For HLR competition, do you have to be physically present for the whole week? Might have to be in NYC one evening, don't want to torpedo my chances, but have to decide now.

You don't, but it'll be that much harder to write-on, working on six days rather than seven.

[o0o0o0o]

Has anyone taken Civil Rights Litigation by Scott Michelman?

IMO good class and an excellent class if you want to do that type of work. It's a solid, useful black-letter course--essentially a supplemental fed courts course for people interested in civil rights lit. Be prepared for a lot of reading. I skimmed all of the reading in the 2-3 hours before each class (it meets once a week) and managed an H but ideally you should be prepared to spend more time doing it. He really incorporated a lot of material from very different areas of civil rights practice, arguably too much, but it was all pretty useful doctrine to learn. Strongly recommend you take Con Law: 14 before or concurrently.