Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Is the law review list out?

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cdotson2
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cdotson2 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:10 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Is the law review list out?

it should come out Monday, or it has for the last 5 years on the third Monday in July at least.

edit: there isn't a list. they just call the people who get on.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:25 pm

cdotson2 wrote:edit: there isn't a list. they just call the people who get on.

I thought they put them all up on the HLR website pretty immediately. Maybe I'm misremembering?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:27 pm


Ah, there it is. Gosh, it seems like they should link that from the general deferment policy, doesn't it? They link a whole bunch of other things from there.

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cdotson2
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cdotson2 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:55 pm

tomwatts wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:edit: there isn't a list. they just call the people who get on.

I thought they put them all up on the HLR website pretty immediately. Maybe I'm misremembering?


eventually whoever gets on is put on the masthead, but I don't know how soon that is released. That is also not how the people who make it on find out they made it.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:10 am

cdotson2 wrote:That is also not how the people who make it on find out they made it.

But it is how everyone else finds out who made it.

My point is, there is a list, and it does tell you who (other than you) made it.

pikachoo
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby pikachoo » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:39 am

.
Last edited by pikachoo on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby t-14orbust » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:06 am

pikachoo wrote:Did any of you guys feel an existential crisis before starting school?
Like.. after getting into HLS, what am I supposed to do next?

I mean... getting into HLS has been a huge dream of mine for some time... and it's such a tremendous honor to be able to attend such a fine institution
but I feel emptier than ever before... I guess you could say I've lost a sense of direction...

Honestly, I've been a kind of "gunner" throughout undergrad -- always working my butt off to get A+ grades and the right LSAT score -- all for the purpose of getting into a top law school.

But after achieving my childhood dream, I feel like I'm suddenly overcome with a whole bunch of existential questions that I had put off for a long time.... and I feel more depressed and hollow than ever before..

What's the point of getting into the Law Review? Clerk ships? Fancy job at a fancy firm? Six-figure salary? Will it make me happy? What would be the point of all that?

If any of you faced a similar existential crisis before starting school and found your way out, please share your story!


Lol just wait until you actually attend and then the magic fades away and you realize it's really just school all over again (with 6 months of terrible weather), except this time you don't excel as easily and instead you're painfully average.

It'll pass though. Your classmates will be awesome and helpful. You'll make a bunch of friends. You'll figure out where you want your career to go. Just think about what you want out of life (HLR is hardly necessary to live a fulfilled life--I didn't even try for it).

The real key is moving past the idea that going to Harvard law school is some incredible life achievement and recognizing that there's so much more to life than checking boxes on academic accomplishments. Take pride in your ability to be humble and empathize with others. Work on your relationships with friends and family. Your career is just a means for living, not a measure of your value as a human being.

agnes_bean
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby agnes_bean » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:37 am

But after achieving my childhood dream, I feel like I'm suddenly overcome with a whole bunch of existential questions that I had put off for a long time.... and I feel more depressed and hollow than ever before..


Serious question: Are you K-JD? It sound like you might be. Honestly, if you're feeling this unsure and unhappy, I would seriously considering deferring for a year or two if it is at all financially feasible (and not too late...I'm not sure the timeline on that.) You sound burned out, and that's not a good way to start law school. It's hard enough to do well and stay motivated even when you come in with a clear sense of purpose and excitement.

Either way, it sounds like your problem is you've been chasing prestige and shiny accolades for the sake of prestige and shiny accolades. Which is fine -- I'm sure many or most HLS students have been there. But if you come to HLS just to continue to chase those special markers of success, it's going to be a problem a) because unless you're a true superstar (and no one should count on that), chances are you'll fail at some of them, and if you don't have other reasons for doing what you're doing that's going to be a major blow, and b) law school is a professional school. In the end, you could get a freaking SCOTUS clerkship and it won't make your life better if you don't actually like the career path or know why you're on it.

I think the best way to get over this crisis is to figure out what your end goal is. Forget law review and clerkships and etc -- what is the career path you want to end up on, AND WHY. Does litigation sound fun and fulfilling? Do you want a six figure salary because it's important to you to be able to support your family at a certain income level? Do you want to eventually end up in a position where you can make what you see as meaningful change in the world (be that through politics, impact lit, policy, being a prosecutor, whatever)? There are plenty of different reasons people want to be lawyers, and they are all valid, but I think it's very helpful to know what your reason is before you start law school.

And that circles back to my original point about taking some time off. It sounds like you've been on the academic success hamster wheel for so long that you're not sure why you're going to law school. It seems like you might benefit a lot from some time off from that cycle to figure out what you really want.

lawlorbust
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby lawlorbust » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:26 pm

tomwatts wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:That is also not how the people who make it on find out they made it.

But it is how everyone else finds out who made it.

My point is, there is a list, and it does tell you who (other than you) made it.


Yes, unsurprisingly, there's a list that's circulated internally. Someone (probably a HLR editor) posted the list on TLS two classes ago.

despina
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby despina » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:45 pm

agnes_bean wrote:
But after achieving my childhood dream, I feel like I'm suddenly overcome with a whole bunch of existential questions that I had put off for a long time.... and I feel more depressed and hollow than ever before..


Serious question: Are you K-JD? It sound like you might be. Honestly, if you're feeling this unsure and unhappy, I would seriously considering deferring for a year or two if it is at all financially feasible (and not too late...I'm not sure the timeline on that.) You sound burned out, and that's not a good way to start law school. It's hard enough to do well and stay motivated even when you come in with a clear sense of purpose and excitement.


100% agreed. If you don't know why you're going to law school or what your goals are afterward, you should not go to law school.

Defer a year and use that time to talk to law school grads about their careers. What do they like and dislike about what they're doing? What's their salary-to-debt ratio like and how does that affect their life plans (kids, home, retirement, caring for aging parents, travel etc). How did they spend their time in law school and how did that affect their career path?

That will help you see whether law school is sending you down a realistic path that makes you excited and motivated. If so, you'll be able to focus in school on the things that matter, and not be brought down by the stress. And if what you hear doesn't appeal to you, you will have dodged a bullet.

Good luck!

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:56 pm

pikachoo wrote:Did any of you guys feel an existential crisis before starting school?
Like.. after getting into HLS, what am I supposed to do next?

I mean... getting into HLS has been a huge dream of mine for some time... and it's such a tremendous honor to be able to attend such a fine institution
but I feel emptier than ever before... I guess you could say I've lost a sense of direction...

Honestly, I've been a kind of "gunner" throughout undergrad -- always working my butt off to get A+ grades and the right LSAT score -- all for the purpose of getting into a top law school.

But after achieving my childhood dream, I feel like I'm suddenly overcome with a whole bunch of existential questions that I had put off for a long time.... and I feel more depressed and hollow than ever before..

What's the point of getting into the Law Review? Clerk ships? Fancy job at a fancy firm? Six-figure salary? Will it make me happy? What would be the point of all that?

If any of you faced a similar existential crisis before starting school and found your way out, please share your story!

In addition to the posts above, with which I agree, I'll add the following:

You say that you've always dreamed of going to HLS. You should understand that "going to HLS" is a weird goal. It suggests that you haven't thought about anything beyond HLS, i.e., actually being a lawyer. That's understandable, but it's also shortsighted. Undergrad students tend to see law school as the culmination of 20+ years of lecture-based knowledge acquisition. That's the wrong way to look at it. Law school is the start of a legal career as an attorney. So your post would set off fewer red flags if it read something like "I want to be a lawyer because of x, y, and z; since I need a law degree to be a lawyer, I want to go the best one I can get into; I think Harvard is a good option because of x, y, z financial/personal/career goals." Aspiring towards HLS in the abstract is like getting married for no other reason than that you've always dreamed of having a fancy ceremony. The point being that law school should not be a terminal goal in and of itself.

I'd also like to reiterate what the posters above said about the institution's shine wearing off almost immediately. HLS is just another school, or at least that's how it will feel (note that you should not share this feeling with friends from other law schools, but that's another post). During the first few weeks of you first semester, the Dean(s) and professors take great pride in telling you that "you're off the treadmill" or some variation thereof. The metaphor, although memorable, is incomplete. What's true is that HLS presents you the option of getting off. But make no mistake -- there are plenty of ways to stay on.

Why does this matter? Because unlike in undergrad, not everyone can be a superstar. Your first semester grades will very likely be average--i.e., neither bottom 10% nor top 10%. How will you feel then? You've expressed that getting into HLS was one of your major goals, but everyone around you will have achieved that same goal. You probably did some cool stuff in undergrad, but you'll quickly learn that "who did what during/after undergrad" is a game that no one really wins. That's when the questions you're asking now will come back with resounding force.

I agree that you ought to consider deferring, especially if you're KJD. Recognize that law school is the start of a career rather than the end of your schooling. Consider what you want out of a career, and why.

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taxman14
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby taxman14 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:00 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
pikachoo wrote:Did any of you guys feel an existential crisis before starting school?
Like.. after getting into HLS, what am I supposed to do next?

I mean... getting into HLS has been a huge dream of mine for some time... and it's such a tremendous honor to be able to attend such a fine institution
but I feel emptier than ever before... I guess you could say I've lost a sense of direction...

Honestly, I've been a kind of "gunner" throughout undergrad -- always working my butt off to get A+ grades and the right LSAT score -- all for the purpose of getting into a top law school.

But after achieving my childhood dream, I feel like I'm suddenly overcome with a whole bunch of existential questions that I had put off for a long time.... and I feel more depressed and hollow than ever before..

What's the point of getting into the Law Review? Clerk ships? Fancy job at a fancy firm? Six-figure salary? Will it make me happy? What would be the point of all that?

If any of you faced a similar existential crisis before starting school and found your way out, please share your story!

In addition to the posts above, with which I agree, I'll add the following:

You say that you've always dreamed of going to HLS. You should understand that "going to HLS" is a weird goal. It suggests that you haven't thought about anything beyond HLS, i.e., actually being a lawyer. That's understandable, but it's also shortsighted. Undergrad students tend to see law school as the culmination of 20+ years of lecture-based knowledge acquisition. That's the wrong way to look at it. Law school is the start of a legal career as an attorney. So your post would set off fewer red flags if it read something like "I want to be a lawyer because of x, y, and z; since I need a law degree to be a lawyer, I want to go the best one I can get into; I think Harvard is a good option because of x, y, z financial/personal/career goals." Aspiring towards HLS in the abstract is like getting married for no other reason than that you've always dreamed of having a fancy ceremony. The point being that law school should not be a terminal goal in and of itself.

I'd also like to reiterate what the posters above said about the institution's shine wearing off almost immediately. HLS is just another school, or at least that's how it will feel (note that you should not share this feeling with friends from other law schools, but that's another post). During the first few weeks of you first semester, the Dean(s) and professors take great pride in telling you that "you're off the treadmill" or some variation thereof. The metaphor, although memorable, is incomplete. What's true is that HLS presents you the option of getting off. But make no mistake -- there are plenty of ways to stay on.

Why does this matter? Because unlike in undergrad, not everyone can be a superstar. Your first semester grades will very likely be average--i.e., neither bottom 10% nor top 10%. How will you feel then? You've expressed that getting into HLS was one of your major goals, but everyone around you will have achieved that same goal. You probably did some cool stuff in undergrad, but you'll quickly learn that "who did what during/after undergrad" is a game that no one really wins. That's when the questions you're asking now will come back with resounding force.

I agree that you ought to consider deferring, especially if you're KJD. Recognize that law school is the start of a career rather than the end of your schooling. Consider what you want out of a career, and why.


I'll preface this with that I haven't actually attended law school but will be going this year to HLS. I took a year off and worked (so not really a year off haha) and spent time thinking about what I want to do going forward and honestly don't know yet. I guess you could defer a year but I doubt you'll find some incredible revelations. If you're truly burnt out then yeah maybe defer - but also recognize that HLS grants aren't guaranteed so if you defer who knows if you'll get them again. If you have no grants, then I guess this is an easier question. The thing with deferring is what are you going to do ? And will you be able to find something that you want to spend a year on - I went into undergrad with an idea of what I wanted and it changed 5 times. Even if I had taken off a decade I doubt I could pinpoint what I'd want. I'd definitely spend some time getting to know what's available at HLS but unless you really feel compelled I wouldn't defer. I'm sure most classmates will also not know what they want or even if they'll know what they want it'll probably be something incredibly generic - like SC clerk or getting on law review or big law.

I feel like I'm in a similar boat to you - I don't know what exactly I'll be going for but I have a general idea of what I like and don't like. So I don't think that deferring is all that necessary or that it'll be all that helpful unless you truly spend this year doing something that'll help you find out what you want.

agnes_bean
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby agnes_bean » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:45 pm

I'm sure most classmates will also not know what they want or even if they'll know what they want it'll probably be something incredibly generic - like SC clerk or getting on law review or big law.


FWIW that was not my experience as a 1L. While it's true that most people didn't have their entire career path planned out, I'd say most of my section had some sort of actual career goal (by which I mean something beyond a short-term goal like LR or a clerkship), be it "work in X public interest area" or "big law in X area of the country/x field, etc" or acedemia, or politics, etc.

Now, plenty people change their goals over the course of law school as they discover new interests/figure out the reality of the field they wanted to go into/etc., so it's not inherently a problem not to know what you want to do. But if you don't either have an idea and or at least feel excited about figuring it out (which seems to be part of the problem for pikachoo), law school is likely not going to be a good experience.

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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Hildegard15 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:42 pm

I have a waitlist related question. I'm 6th on Klarman's 14th for the spring. I'm currently enrolled in a 14th in the fall. Is it likely that I will get into Klarman's class before fall semester begins? I'm worried about dropping my 14th class in the fall to gamble on getting into Klarman over winter term, only to not get in and have to wait to take 14th my 3L year.

I know this is speculative but if people know how much his class moved in past years that'd be helpful.

together41
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby together41 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:49 pm

Related to the earlier discussion, has anyone heard from law review yet?

ValeVale
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby ValeVale » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm

together41 wrote:Related to the earlier discussion, has anyone heard from law review yet?


According to clerkship blog, someone has heard.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby nothingtosee » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:36 pm

btw if someone gets the list but doesn't want to post it under their own account pm me and i'll post it

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slippin_jimmy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby slippin_jimmy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:57 pm

ValeVale wrote:
together41 wrote:Related to the earlier discussion, has anyone heard from law review yet?


According to clerkship blog, someone has heard.


Calls have been going out.

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cdotson2
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby cdotson2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:10 pm

Does anyone know if it will be one day of calls or two this year?

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby tomwatts » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:10 pm

Hildegard15 wrote:I have a waitlist related question. I'm 6th on Klarman's 14th for the spring. I'm currently enrolled in a 14th in the fall. Is it likely that I will get into Klarman's class before fall semester begins? I'm worried about dropping my 14th class in the fall to gamble on getting into Klarman over winter term, only to not get in and have to wait to take 14th my 3L year.

I know this is speculative but if people know how much his class moved in past years that'd be helpful.

I assume this is going to get buried in HLR static, so I'll try to answer this, even though I don't have numbers to back up what I'm going to say. I'm almost certain that Klarman's waitlist for 14th in the spring ordinarily moves by more than 6 spots. You're safe dropping the other person's 14th.

fiercegoldfish
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby fiercegoldfish » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:27 pm

cdotson2 wrote:Does anyone know if it will be one day of calls or two this year?


From their website:

"The Law Review expects to invite editors to join Volume 132 over the course of several days during the second half of July."

Could be CYA though

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Hildegard15
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby Hildegard15 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:56 pm

tomwatts wrote:I assume this is going to get buried in HLR static, so I'll try to answer this, even though I don't have numbers to back up what I'm going to say. I'm almost certain that Klarman's waitlist for 14th in the spring ordinarily moves by more than 6 spots. You're safe dropping the other person's 14th.


Thanks tomwatts!

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schocolate
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby schocolate » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:31 am

cdotson2 wrote:Does anyone know if it will be one day of calls or two this year?


It seems like they made their calls yesterday but if anyone declined, they'll call more people to fill those spots today.

together41
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions

Postby together41 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:21 am

schocolate wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:Does anyone know if it will be one day of calls or two this year?


It seems like they made their calls yesterday but if anyone declined, they'll call more people to fill those spots today.


Do you have that confirmed in any way?




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