If past history is any indication, odds are they'll come out sometime this week between Tuesday and Thursday.LS2515 wrote:What is going on with grades? Has the initial registrar email even gone out yet?
Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum
- lawschool22
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
- dylar
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Does anyone know if there are DS grades for LRW?
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
There are.dylar wrote:Does anyone know if there are DS grades for LRW?
- dylar
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
thanks !despina wrote:There are.dylar wrote:Does anyone know if there are DS grades for LRW?
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Do Fall grades for 2Ls & 3Ls come out at the same time as they do for 1Ls? The front-page FAQ speaks to Spring grades for upperclassmen (before graduation), but not to Fall grades.
Are they released all at once, or do they trickle in?
Also, any thoughts on Taxation with Warren? Easy, hard, a lot of work, gunner-heavy, checked-out heavy, etc.?
Are they released all at once, or do they trickle in?
Also, any thoughts on Taxation with Warren? Easy, hard, a lot of work, gunner-heavy, checked-out heavy, etc.?
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- MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
It went out in Dec and said Feb 1LS2515 wrote:What is going on with grades? Has the initial registrar email even gone out yet?
@Dreamshake: the registrar will release upper class grades the same time as 1L grades unless the prof hasn't submitted yet, which happens from time to time
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
As MyNameIsFlynn said, only spring grade release dates vary depending on who you are (not fall, not J Term). I figured that was implicitly clear in the FAQ, but maybe not.DreamShake94 wrote:Do Fall grades for 2Ls & 3Ls come out at the same time as they do for 1Ls? The front-page FAQ speaks to Spring grades for upperclassmen (before graduation), but not to Fall grades.
- leslieknope
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Anyone know why grades are coming out later this year?
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
[insert complaint here about registar's gross incompetence]leslieknope wrote:Anyone know why grades are coming out later this year?
[insert complaint here about the administration being totally spineless in re: forcing professors to grade exams in a reasonable amount of time]
- jingosaur
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
I think finals ended later this year.leslieknope wrote:Anyone know why grades are coming out later this year?
Also, this delay really screws 1Ls for jobs because they're competing with people who have had grades for weeks. There were so many internships I applied to that wouldn't interview me w/out grades and then within a couple days of sending in my grades the day they came out, I got a response that they filled all of their positions already. V5s will wait for HLS kids for 2L firm recruiting, but the GC's office at a random company doesn't really give a shit whether their 1L intern comes from HLS or another T14.
- ikethegremlin
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Agreed, it's very sweet that the administration seems to think that HLS means so much that they can act completely differently to other schools and not damage our chances at all, but it's just not true. Also had jobs waiting on transcripts for a couple weeks now, and it's sort of awkward.jingosaur wrote:I think finals ended later this year.leslieknope wrote:Anyone know why grades are coming out later this year?
Also, this delay really screws 1Ls for jobs because they're competing with people who have had grades for weeks. There were so many internships I applied to that wouldn't interview me w/out grades and then within a couple days of sending in my grades the day they came out, I got a response that they filled all of their positions already. V5s will wait for HLS kids for 2L firm recruiting, but the GC's office at a random company doesn't really give a shit whether their 1L intern comes from HLS or another T14.
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
A lot of 1Ls do get summer positions before grades come out, though. I think it's very possible that by extending the time without grades it blurs the distinction between Harvard students and forces employers to rely more on the name (and previous work experience). I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea.
You might expect it to hold back people at the top of the class who could benefit from differentiating themselves from the rest of the pack, but in my experience it doesn't. My friends with great grades mostly had 1L internships lined up in Dec/Jan before grades came out. Whether that was because of signaling or because of a better work ethic in getting apps in early... I don't know.
You might expect it to hold back people at the top of the class who could benefit from differentiating themselves from the rest of the pack, but in my experience it doesn't. My friends with great grades mostly had 1L internships lined up in Dec/Jan before grades came out. Whether that was because of signaling or because of a better work ethic in getting apps in early... I don't know.
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
The thing that gets me is that professors can grade quickly. 3L grades come out about two weeks after exams end each year. If the administration required it, 1L profs could grade as quickly and get grades back to students before J Term starts. Instead, the administration allows them to take over six weeks.wwwcol wrote:[insert complaint here about the administration being totally spineless in re: forcing professors to grade exams in a reasonable amount of time]
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
I mean yeah... in defense of 1L profs though, having a section of 80 (or even two sections of 80) is more work than just rushing grades for 3Ls. Even if you are teaching a 120-person class, it would be rare that 80 of them are 3Ls that you would need to rush.tomwatts wrote:The thing that gets me is that professors can grade quickly. 3L grades come out about two weeks after exams end each year. If the administration required it, 1L profs could grade as quickly and get grades back to students before J Term starts. Instead, the administration allows them to take over six weeks.wwwcol wrote:[insert complaint here about the administration being totally spineless in re: forcing professors to grade exams in a reasonable amount of time]
Also, it's one thing to require profs to rush grades in May. It's another thing to require people to rush over the Christmas break. Profs have lives and families too.
My guess (with zero evidence since I haven't looked into it) is that schools giving grades in early January probably start the fall semester before Labor Day.
- TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Also, getting grades a week late is dubiously problematic compared to what some law schools continue to do with their schedules. UChi 2Ls don't finish Spring term finals until a week into when most people have already started at firms. They lose out on $3,000 in summer pay. While it would be nice to get grades sooner, at least we don't have problems like that.
- polareagle
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Professors were supposed to turn grades in by last Friday.
My (perhaps optimistic) guess is that grades come out tomorrow.
My (perhaps optimistic) guess is that grades come out tomorrow.
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Sure, everything is relative, but the fact that Uchicago does somethkng even more shittily than us is not a great defense.TripTrip wrote:Also, getting grades a week late is dubiously problematic compared to what some law schools continue to do with their schedules. UChi 2Ls don't finish Spring term finals until a week into when most people have already started at firms. They lose out on $3,000 in summer pay. While it would be nice to get grades sooner, at least we don't have problems like that.
Also youre talking about scheduling but were talking about grades. I assume the logistical costs/hurdles of changing from a quarter to a semester system far outweigh the benefits at this point in time. But the hurdle of getting grades in sooner is far less significant- Basically just the "cost" of forcing profs to grade in three or four weeks instead of six or seven
Wrt to the "professors have lives too," Im struggling to think of a less sympathetic group. They're paid 200-400k to teach and "research." I don't think its too fucking much to ask that they grade papers in less than two full months. No other schools seem to have this problem and I doubt its attributable to the calendar alone.despina wrote:I mean yeah... in defense of 1L profs though, having a section of 80 (or even two sections of 80) is more work than just rushing grades for 3Ls. Even if you are teaching a 120-person class, it would be rare that 80 of them are 3Ls that you would need to rush.tomwatts wrote:The thing that gets me is that professors can grade quickly. 3L grades come out about two weeks after exams end each year. If the administration required it, 1L profs could grade as quickly and get grades back to students before J Term starts. Instead, the administration allows them to take over six weeks.wwwcol wrote:[insert complaint here about the administration being totally spineless in re: forcing professors to grade exams in a reasonable amount of time]
Also, it's one thing to require profs to rush grades in May. It's another thing to require people to rush over the Christmas break. Profs have lives and families too.
My guess (with zero evidence since I haven't looked into it) is that schools giving grades in early January probably start the fall semester before Labor Day.
Even the laziest of profs should be able to turn in grades around early Jan. I have no idea how long it takes to grade an exam (and I assume it varies wildly by prof) but let's assume they can grade 3 exams per hour (that seems reasonable to me). That's 24 per day and 80 by day four. Add in another day to double check and make sure points awarded were consistent from beginning to end. Grading within one business week should be easily doable. (Three points to note: First, I assume profs do no work on weekends. Given their pay i personally don't think it's crazy they work a weekend or two to get grades in sooner. Second, if grading 3 exams/hr is unreasonable because the exams are too long, well that's what word limits are for. Third, grading is probs way easier here than elsewhere since the scale is binary (no need to distinguish between A- vs B+, B- vs C+ Etc)
1l exams end around a week before Christmas. This year I think it was the 18th. That gives the prof 7 business days in Dec alone (not counting Christmas Eve or Christmas). Absolutely no reason other than spineless admin that we don't have grades by first week of J term
To the extent it takes the registrar time to input grades into helios and verify the curve was followed, again I point to registrar incompetence. The whole process should be (and can easily be) automated.
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- heythatslife
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
I think you underestimate the time that goes into grading a paper. It's one thing to skim three 4000 word essays an hour, and another to note and keep track of differences in essays that all talk about the same thing. Also, besides Christmas/New Year social obligations, winter break is more demanding on the instructors than summer since many of them have to use the time to prepare for spring courses as well. But I do suspect the registrar can probably be more efficient, though.wwwcol wrote:
Wrt to the "professors have lives too," Im struggling to think of a less sympathetic group. They're paid 200-400k to teach and "research." I don't think its too fucking much to ask that they grade papers in less than two full months. No other schools seem to have this problem and I doubt its attributable to the calendar alone.
Even the laziest of profs should be able to turn in grades around early Jan. I have no idea how long it takes to grade an exam (and I assume it varies wildly by prof) but let's assume they can grade 3 exams per hour (that seems reasonable to me). That's 24 per day and 80 by day four. Add in another day to double check and make sure points awarded were consistent from beginning to end. Grading within one business week should be easily doable. (Three points to note: First, I assume profs do no work on weekends. Given their pay i personally don't think it's crazy they work a weekend or two to get grades in sooner. Second, if grading 3 exams/hr is unreasonable because the exams are too long, well that's what word limits are for. Third, grading is probs way easier here than elsewhere since the scale is binary (no need to distinguish between A- vs B+, B- vs C+ Etc)
1l exams end around a week before Christmas. This year I think it was the 18th. That gives the prof 7 business days in Dec alone (not counting Christmas Eve or Christmas). Absolutely no reason other than spineless admin that we don't have grades by first week of J term
To the extent it takes the registrar time to input grades into helios and verify the curve was followed, again I point to registrar incompetence. The whole process should be (and can easily be) automated.
- Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
One firm asked me to update my grades like a week or two ago and then today I got a rejection email lol
- Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
But you should take solace in the fact that the Harvard name will get you an even better job than the one you wanted!!!Mack.Hambleton wrote:One firm asked me to update my grades like a week or two ago and then today I got a rejection email lol
In all seriousness, why can't grades be posted as they are submitted? That way, if a teacher doesn't need two months, the grades will be posted quicker. My sense is that grades for most non-lecture courses could be submitted pretty quickly.
- Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
But, when delayed grades cause you to miss out on a 1L SA, you miss out on a lot more $$ than 3k. I think that was the main point above. I agree that being mad about grade release timelines is silly in the abstract, but when grade delays contribute (or even apparently contribute) to HLS students missing out on jobs, I think the frustration becomes a bit more justifiable. The administration's position—"lol this is HLS, XYZ & Associates will hold open that position for you"—just doesn't match reality anymore.TripTrip wrote:Also, getting grades a week late is dubiously problematic compared to what some law schools continue to do with their schedules. UChi 2Ls don't finish Spring term finals until a week into when most people have already started at firms. They lose out on $3,000 in summer pay. While it would be nice to get grades sooner, at least we don't have problems like that.
Yes, grades could be released more quickly—and they probably should be. But the above is just unrealistic. To take one example, 20 minutes per exam is just laughably off base. There's no way that's actually what you want. Especially when you consider that profs may teach multiple classes, and may be teaching classes during J-Term, the timeline becomes more understandable.wwwcol wrote: Wrt to the "professors have lives too," Im struggling to think of a less sympathetic group. They're paid 200-400k to teach and "research." I don't think its too fucking much to ask that they grade papers in less than two full months. No other schools seem to have this problem and I doubt its attributable to the calendar alone.
Even the laziest of profs should be able to turn in grades around early Jan. I have no idea how long it takes to grade an exam (and I assume it varies wildly by prof) but let's assume they can grade 3 exams per hour (that seems reasonable to me). That's 24 per day and 80 by day four. Add in another day to double check and make sure points awarded were consistent from beginning to end. Grading within one business week should be easily doable. (Three points to note: First, I assume profs do no work on weekends. Given their pay i personally don't think it's crazy they work a weekend or two to get grades in sooner. Second, if grading 3 exams/hr is unreasonable because the exams are too long, well that's what word limits are for. Third, grading is probs way easier here than elsewhere since the scale is binary (no need to distinguish between A- vs B+, B- vs C+ Etc)
1l exams end around a week before Christmas. This year I think it was the 18th. That gives the prof 7 business days in Dec alone (not counting Christmas Eve or Christmas). Absolutely no reason other than spineless admin that we don't have grades by first week of J term
To the extent it takes the registrar time to input grades into helios and verify the curve was followed, again I point to registrar incompetence. The whole process should be (and can easily be) automated.
In my opinion, the real issue is that we have J-Term to begin with. I think the delays are traceable to that.
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Idk what number of minutes is realistic but the point still stands that profs move way too slowly and could reasonably turn in grades in early Jan if prodded to do so. Re: multiple classes, it makes no sense that we release 1L and upper class grades at the same time. 1l grades are actually important for summer purposes whereas it doesn't matter when upperclassmen get grades back.Pneumonia wrote:Yes, grades could be released more quickly—and they probably should be. But the above is just unrealistic. To take one example, 20 minutes per exam is just laughably off base. There's no way that's actually what you want. Especially when you consider that profs may teach multiple classes, and may be teaching classes during J-Term, the timeline becomes more understandable.
In my opinion, the real issue is that we have J-Term to begin with. I think the delays are traceable to that.
Agree about J term. Not sure at what point administration will concede it was a failure of an idea and just get rid of it
- Mr. Elshal
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Does anyone know why we have J-term? I could understand it if they were charging us more, but it seems like a money-bleeding enterprise and could easily be replaced by a higher credit minimum in other semesters (or just eliminated)
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Those poor Harvard professors getting paid $400,000+ to work a few long days over the winter break.heythatslife wrote:I think you underestimate the time that goes into grading a paper. It's one thing to skim three 4000 word essays an hour, and another to note and keep track of differences in essays that all talk about the same thing. Also, besides Christmas/New Year social obligations, winter break is more demanding on the instructors than summer since many of them have to use the time to prepare for spring courses as well. But I do suspect the registrar can probably be more efficient, though.wwwcol wrote:
Wrt to the "professors have lives too," Im struggling to think of a less sympathetic group. They're paid 200-400k to teach and "research." I don't think its too fucking much to ask that they grade papers in less than two full months. No other schools seem to have this problem and I doubt its attributable to the calendar alone.
Even the laziest of profs should be able to turn in grades around early Jan. I have no idea how long it takes to grade an exam (and I assume it varies wildly by prof) but let's assume they can grade 3 exams per hour (that seems reasonable to me). That's 24 per day and 80 by day four. Add in another day to double check and make sure points awarded were consistent from beginning to end. Grading within one business week should be easily doable. (Three points to note: First, I assume profs do no work on weekends. Given their pay i personally don't think it's crazy they work a weekend or two to get grades in sooner. Second, if grading 3 exams/hr is unreasonable because the exams are too long, well that's what word limits are for. Third, grading is probs way easier here than elsewhere since the scale is binary (no need to distinguish between A- vs B+, B- vs C+ Etc)
1l exams end around a week before Christmas. This year I think it was the 18th. That gives the prof 7 business days in Dec alone (not counting Christmas Eve or Christmas). Absolutely no reason other than spineless admin that we don't have grades by first week of J term
To the extent it takes the registrar time to input grades into helios and verify the curve was followed, again I point to registrar incompetence. The whole process should be (and can easily be) automated.
- flyingboy
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Re: Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions
Grades are up. Now stop whining.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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