Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[az21833]

yes hls if you are getting that much need aid. have you already gotten your finaid package or are you just estimating?

[canarykb]

Can anyone tell me more about FIP (Public Sector Interviews)? I'm trying to get a sense of how many employers are there, and wasn't able to find a list of who attends.

Also, how many students reliably get jobs through FIP? I understand its a lot smaller than EIP, and PI/Gov't minded folks should be mass mailing & going to job fairs and generally hustling?

THANKS

[spyke123]

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

wait i thought even max aid required you to take out 100k+ in loans?

[delusional]

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

wait i thought even max aid required you to take out 100k+ in loans?

You are right. It requires you to take out at least about $125k in loans. But the Ruby also requires COL, right? So the effective difference is likely to be about 60-65k.

[tomwatts]

Can anyone tell me more about FIP (Public Sector Interviews)? I'm trying to get a sense of how many employers are there, and wasn't able to find a list of who attends.

Also, how many students reliably get jobs through FIP? I understand its a lot smaller than EIP, and PI/Gov't minded folks should be mass mailing & going to job fairs and generally hustling?

I don't think I can post a list (it's on a password-protected part of the site), but there were 26 organizations, and I think 6 of them were private sector. The jobs are really scattered; in general, I'd assume that no one you're interested in is interviewing there until you see the list. Then review the list to make sure that there really isn't anyone you're interested in.

It's definitely true that public interest-oriented people need to assume that you go to the employers (in contrast to law firms, who will come to you). Some will advertise openings on the OPIA (or, just as often, OCS) database, which can help a bit.

[unc0mm0n1]

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

wait i thought even max aid required you to take out 100k+ in loans?

You are right. It requires you to take out at least about $125k in loans. But the Ruby also requires COL, right? So the effective difference is likely to be about 60-65k.

60-65k would be a hard choice. I'm from Chicago and I know I could live way cheaper in Chicago than Cambridge so that 60-65k would probably be more like 80-85k for me..... At that point I think I'd take Chicago but it would be harder. I think if I was like OP and knew I didn't want Big Law I'd for sure take Chicago.

[wert3813]

Thoughts on the semester in DC program? Anyone done it?

Can someone walk me through clinicals more generally? I know your capped on clinic credits, I know there is often a class that goes with it, and I believe it is not like Stanford where there is a specific semester that you just do clinicals.

Can someone fill in the how many hours, what those semesters look like, how much of your education is clinical v. class, whether this often lead to PI jobs (assuming a PI clinical). Anything else you think would be good to know would be much appreciated.

[PMan99]

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

wait i thought even max aid required you to take out 100k+ in loans?

You are right. It requires you to take out at least about $125k in loans. But the Ruby also requires COL, right? So the effective difference is likely to be about 60-65k.

Ruby has a COL stipend, which is what makes it so attractive

[delusional]

To everyone above me, thank you so much for your feedback and opinions. I had previously told myself that if I got the Ruby that was it - I was going to Chicago. However, though my parents make so little I should qualify for Max aid, I have been lucky to find myself in a situation where H will only cost COL. So, my decision has become all the more difficult. I plan to visit both schools and see which one fits best. I am very debt averse so I am really drawn to Chicago. I also love everything I read about the school and my SO got into med school there. But I also do not envision a traditional big law career and feel the Harvard name may help me transition into academia, lobbying, etc - ESP in the south where UChicago means nothing to the average person. And, though this may be crazy, one of the biggest plusses of Harvard is the grading system. I went to public school in a bad area of the city, a non stellar state school, etc. Not trying to brag at all, but there wasn't much competition to get good grades. Only one professor of mine actually took the time to edit my essays or penalize students for poor grammar/spelling. UG was really only challenging because I took double the normal courseload and did other things outside of class. That said, I know that I am about to spend three years surrounded by extremely smart and better educated people than myself. I am sure the majority of ny classmates (H or C) will easily have a better foundation and be more accustomed to the academic rigor. I expect towork harder to achieve the same result. I am ready for that. I have no guarantee of finishing at the top of the class. I do not expect to. I plan to work myself however hard I need to and get some Hs, but if I'm median I will not bat a lash of regret. All this said, the grading system at H reassures me that I have cushion. I do not have this at Chicago. If Chicago had a similar grading style I would be depositing immediately though. Please feel free to offer feedback, thanks again.

wait i thought even max aid required you to take out 100k+ in loans?

You are right. It requires you to take out at least about $125k in loans. But the Ruby also requires COL, right? So the effective difference is likely to be about 60-65k.

Ruby has a COL stipend, which is what makes it so attractive

OK, so then the difference would be much more than COL. I hope that the above poster realizes that HLS aid only kicks in after a minimum loan amount, and doesn't cover "only COL".

[yarsten]

Quick question, as housing applications open tomorrow (kind of):
Anyone living in Harvard University Housing (HUH)? Is it pretty hard to get a good place? Can you rent for just the academic year or is it year-round? I have a family of three and would hate to try and sublet, obviously.

[dcg2120]

Quick question, as housing applications open tomorrow (kind of):
Anyone living in Harvard University Housing (HUH)? Is it pretty hard to get a good place? Can you rent for just the academic year or is it year-round? I have a family of three and would hate to try and sublet, obviously.

Wait--I thought they're not open until April 1st? https://hahls.law.harvard.edu/StarRezPo ... lvAA%2b26c

...or is it some kind of crazy preemptive April Fools joke?

[yarsten]

Quick question, as housing applications open tomorrow (kind of):
Anyone living in Harvard University Housing (HUH)? Is it pretty hard to get a good place? Can you rent for just the academic year or is it year-round? I have a family of three and would hate to try and sublet, obviously.

Wait--I thought they're not open until April 1st? https://hahls.law.harvard.edu/StarRezPo ... lvAA%2b26c

...or is it some kind of crazy preemptive April Fools joke?

You can create an application starting 3/1, then it has to be approved and then you can look for housing, with the view/select windows starting in May or something. Definitely no need to worry for a while, I was just curious.

Edit: I hadn't even looked at your link. That's strange... I got my info from an email and from here

[bernaldiaz]

How does the grading system work in reality? It seems like at Stanford the P/H system (with no LPs or Dean's Prizes) really adds to quality of life and lowers stress. Do you feel that having the LPs and Dean's Prizes makes HLS' grading system more similar to a regularly grading system?

[ph14]

How does the grading system work in reality? It seems like at Stanford the P/H system (with no LPs or Dean's Prizes) really adds to quality of life and lowers stress. Do you feel that having the LPs and Dean's Prizes makes HLS' grading system more similar to a regularly grading system?

There are pros and cons. I think overall it is a net gain for students, but it's not without its downsides. SLS does have book prizes though, which I think are probably similar to Dean's Prizes. And Stanford also has "RC" (restricted credit) although I think those are more rare than LPs are. Pros are the grading is less random (it's easier for a professor to distinguish between H and P versus divining the A-s versus the As, etc.), you don't have to stress about getting a B- or C on your transcript (although LPs do exist), you don't have to worry about A-s versus B+s, etc. The downsides are that it is hard to distinguish yourself and also hard to know where you are in the class. And if you say are just missing an H you are lumped in with all the Ps with no showing that you were close to an H. Overall I prefer it to a traditional A/B/C system, which I imagine is more stressful.

[Davidbentley]

How does the grading system work in reality? It seems like at Stanford the P/H system (with no LPs or Dean's Prizes) really adds to quality of life and lowers stress. Do you feel that having the LPs and Dean's Prizes makes HLS' grading system more similar to a regularly grading system?

There are pros and cons. I think overall it is a net gain for students, but it's not without its downsides. SLS does have book prizes though, which I think are probably similar to Dean's Prizes. And Stanford also has "RC" (restricted credit) although I think those are more rare than LPs are. Pros are the grading is less random (it's easier for a professor to distinguish between H and P versus divining the A-s versus the As, etc.), you don't have to stress about getting a B- or C on your transcript (although LPs do exist), you don't have to worry about A-s versus B+s, etc. The downsides are that it is hard to distinguish yourself and also hard to know where you are in the class. And if you say are just missing an H you are lumped in with all the Ps with no showing that you were close to an H. Overall I prefer it to a traditional A/B/C system, which I imagine is more stressful.

I'll just add this for info. The book prizes at sls work out to 1/15 students or roughly top 7 % of each class. There are four given out for each 60 person 1l course. I don't know how that relates to H's dean's prizes.

[ph14]

How does the grading system work in reality? It seems like at Stanford the P/H system (with no LPs or Dean's Prizes) really adds to quality of life and lowers stress. Do you feel that having the LPs and Dean's Prizes makes HLS' grading system more similar to a regularly grading system?

There are pros and cons. I think overall it is a net gain for students, but it's not without its downsides. SLS does have book prizes though, which I think are probably similar to Dean's Prizes. And Stanford also has "RC" (restricted credit) although I think those are more rare than LPs are. Pros are the grading is less random (it's easier for a professor to distinguish between H and P versus divining the A-s versus the As, etc.), you don't have to stress about getting a B- or C on your transcript (although LPs do exist), you don't have to worry about A-s versus B+s, etc. The downsides are that it is hard to distinguish yourself and also hard to know where you are in the class. And if you say are just missing an H you are lumped in with all the Ps with no showing that you were close to an H. Overall I prefer it to a traditional A/B/C system, which I imagine is more stressful.

I'll just add this for info. The book prizes at sls work out to 1/15 students or roughly top 7 % of each class. There are four given out for each 60 person 1l course. I don't know how that relates to H's dean's prizes.

I get the sense that this is slightly more generous than the average 1L course at HLS, but of course have no way to prove this. I've always imagined that it's roughly 2-4 for the 85ish 1L sections.

[bernaldiaz]

Thanks for the replies. I have read that LPs can be one of the things can sink you at OCI. I know that some classes are supposed to have a certain number of LPs but I think I have heard people claim that some professors more or less see them as discretionary (forgive me if I'm mis-remembering). How prevalent are LPs? How worried do you have to be about them? At Stanford the students said it had been a long time since anyone had gotten lower than a H, which sounded really nice. You could sort of strategically study at finals, really focusing in on a few classes to aim for Hs and just accept your Ps in the others.

[ph14]

Thanks for the replies. I have read that LPs can be one of the things can sink you at OCI. I know that some classes are supposed to have a certain number of LPs but I think I have heard people claim that some professors more or less see them as discretionary (forgive me if I'm mis-remembering). How prevalent are LPs? How worried do you have to be about them? At Stanford the students said it had been a long time since anyone had gotten lower than a H, which sounded really nice. You could sort of strategically study at finals, really focusing in on a few classes to aim for Hs and just accept your Ps in the others.

I think you mean a long time since anyone had gotten lower than a P. LPs exist but they are not a big worry. It's hard to tell how prevalent LPs are because no one talks about grades. They're rare but they exist. But they aren't something to worry about or really factor into your decision.

[094320]

..

[AllTheLawz]

Thanks for the replies. I have read that LPs can be one of the things can sink you at OCI. I know that some classes are supposed to have a certain number of LPs but I think I have heard people claim that some professors more or less see them as discretionary (forgive me if I'm mis-remembering). How prevalent are LPs? How worried do you have to be about them? At Stanford the students said it had been a long time since anyone had gotten lower than a H, which sounded really nice. You could sort of strategically study at finals, really focusing in on a few classes to aim for Hs and just accept your Ps in the others.

I have only had one person tell me that they got an LP and that person is headed to a V10 firm. I also have a friend at Stanford who told me he knows of someone who got an LP.

Like the above posters I have found LPs to be something that people don't really worry about after 1L. Had a class where I showed up to less than half the sessions, never raised my hand a single time (not a blind graded course) and still got an H.

[Doorkeeper]

How does the grading system work in reality? It seems like at Stanford the P/H system (with no LPs or Dean's Prizes) really adds to quality of life and lowers stress. Do you feel that having the LPs and Dean's Prizes makes HLS' grading system more similar to a regularly grading system?

There are pros and cons. I think overall it is a net gain for students, but it's not without its downsides. SLS does have book prizes though, which I think are probably similar to Dean's Prizes. And Stanford also has "RC" (restricted credit) although I think those are more rare than LPs are. Pros are the grading is less random (it's easier for a professor to distinguish between H and P versus divining the A-s versus the As, etc.), you don't have to stress about getting a B- or C on your transcript (although LPs do exist), you don't have to worry about A-s versus B+s, etc. The downsides are that it is hard to distinguish yourself and also hard to know where you are in the class. And if you say are just missing an H you are lumped in with all the Ps with no showing that you were close to an H. Overall I prefer it to a traditional A/B/C system, which I imagine is more stressful.

I hate this about the H/P system. One semester in and I already had a professor tell me that I literally "just missed" the H. Talk about infuriating.

Also, 1Ls tended to be abnormally afraid of LPs for some reason, or at least said they were. It was pretty odd. This being said, they're discretionary and I don't get the sense they're given out frequently (A prof. told me max. 2-4 per class).

[tomwatts]

There's a whole bunch of grade discussion in this thread from page 59 on, right around the time that fall grades came out. Just to collect some info, in case others have questions about this particularly opaque aspect of HLS....

DSs are discretionary, but the best guesses are that there are several per 80 person class, something like 4 or thereabouts. It's not clear exactly how many there are or how much this varies from prof to prof.

Hs, when the grade distribution was published, were the top 37% of the class. The best guess is that they are still about that number.

Ps, when the grade distribution was published, were basically everything else: 55%. The best guess is that they are still about that number.

LPs, when the grade distribution was published, were the bottom 8%. They are now discretionary, up to some maximum, which (the best guess is) is still the same 8%. Some profs still give the maximum number of LPs. Some profs give none or almost none. Try not to be in the bottom 5 or 6 students in the class where this actually will matter.

I looked up the pre-reform grade distribution at one point (not sure if it was at this source or not), and basically what this means is that the DS is an A+ (but there are slightly more DSs than there were A+s), the H is an A-/A (but there are slightly more Hs than there were A-/As, and the P is everything from a B+ to a B-, though slightly more generous to the bottom end of the class. This makes the LP something like the old C or C-.

(Though for some reason the link that I found here makes it sound like the LP is sort of like the old B-, which doesn't sound right. Maybe I looked up something that was more recent than that.)

At any rate, an LP won't sink you at EIP, but you have to talk to OCS to make sure that you know how you're going to respond to questions about it, which you're going to get if you have an LP. You probably won't get one of the more competitive firms, but you can get something if you want, and it's all a little unpredictable anyway.

[dcg2120]

Thanks, tomwatts. This is awesome.

[wert3813]

Thoughts on the semester in DC program? Anyone done it?

Can someone walk me through clinicals more generally? I know your capped on clinic credits, I know there is often a class that goes with it, and I believe it is not like Stanford where there is a specific semester that you just do clinicals.

Can someone fill in the how many hours, what those semesters look like, how much of your education is clinical v. class, whether this often lead to PI jobs (assuming a PI clinical). Anything else you think would be good to know would be much appreciated.

Now that all the Harvard people are back for fun grade discussion talk any chance I could get this answered? Sorry for pestering.

[tomwatts]

Thoughts on the semester in DC program? Anyone done it?

Can someone walk me through clinicals more generally? I know your capped on clinic credits, I know there is often a class that goes with it, and I believe it is not like Stanford where there is a specific semester that you just do clinicals.

Can someone fill in the how many hours, what those semesters look like, how much of your education is clinical v. class, whether this often lead to PI jobs (assuming a PI clinical). Anything else you think would be good to know would be much appreciated.

Now that all the Harvard people are back for fun grade discussion talk any chance I could get this answered? Sorry for pestering.

It's possible that the answer to the first two questions is "no," at least for TLS-ers.

I know very little about clinics, not having taken one yet. They're very time-consuming. Some take place fairly far off campus. You get 1 credit for every 5 hours you're officially working (usually 3 credits for 15 hours or 4 for 20 hours), but that doesn't give you a sense of how much time you're putting in. The cap on clinical credits probably only matters if you're a joint degree student or a member of HLAB: you can do a clinic every semester in your 2L and 3L years if you feel like it unless you're a joint degree student, and HLAB effectively is a clinic every semester of your 2L and 3L years. You'll probably have 2-3 other classes in addition to your clinic during a semester in which you're taking a clinic. Doing a clinic looks good for PI jobs, but it doesn't get you a PI job, usually.