UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
JollyGreenGiant
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:12 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:25 pm

lsatcrazy wrote:Just read: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1958366

Any thoughts? Are the descriptions remotely accurate? Unloads pretty heavily on Levmore (aka "Not Silent"). He seems honest, but also a little kooky...

I read the Chicago section. The Property professor is easily identifiable, and I'm guessing I know the Contracts professor too.

Summary of my thoughts compared to his:
I know most people's first names. I call them by their first name. I hear people say "pass" all the time--some professors even encourage using it. Some professors can be jerks, but that's the nature of the beast. The vast majority of them aren't. Most professors do wear suits. I'm on the Scalia side of saying that you should take all the black letter law classes you can and pass on some of these law & philosophy classes (but obviously some people are interested in otherwise the law school wouldn't keep offering them). We do have off MLK Day. Professors are readily available and will take you out to lunch if you ask them. There is definitely an anxious culture in Chicago (as a 1L), but I doubt it's much different than most any other big school. 1L is a much different beast than any other class year.

lsatcrazy
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby lsatcrazy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:29 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
lsatcrazy wrote:Just read: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1958366

Any thoughts? Are the descriptions remotely accurate? Unloads pretty heavily on Levmore (aka "Not Silent"). He seems honest, but also a little kooky...

I read the Chicago section. The Property professor is easily identifiable, and I'm guessing I know the Contracts professor too.

Summary of my thoughts compared to his:
I know most people's first names. I call them by their first name. I hear people say "pass" all the time--some professors even encourage using it. Some professors can be jerks, but that's the nature of the beast. The vast majority of them aren't. Most professors do wear suits. I'm on the Scalia side of saying that you should take all the black letter law classes you can and pass on some of these law & philosophy classes (but obviously some people are interested in otherwise the law school wouldn't keep offering them). We do have off MLK Day. Professors are readily available and will take you out to lunch if you ask them. There is definitely an anxious culture in Chicago (as a 1L), but I doubt it's much different than most any other big school. 1L is a much different beast than any other class year.

That was really informative - thanks!

User avatar
Flash
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Flash » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:31 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
lsatcrazy wrote:Just read: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1958366

Any thoughts? Are the descriptions remotely accurate? Unloads pretty heavily on Levmore (aka "Not Silent"). He seems honest, but also a little kooky...

I read the Chicago section. The Property professor is easily identifiable, and I'm guessing I know the Contracts professor too.

Summary of my thoughts compared to his:
I know most people's first names. I call them by their first name. I hear people say "pass" all the time--some professors even encourage using it. Some professors can be jerks, but that's the nature of the beast. The vast majority of them aren't. Most professors do wear suits. I'm on the Scalia side of saying that you should take all the black letter law classes you can and pass on some of these law & philosophy classes (but obviously some people are interested in otherwise the law school wouldn't keep offering them). We do have off MLK Day. Professors are readily available and will take you out to lunch if you ask them. There is definitely an anxious culture in Chicago (as a 1L), but I doubt it's much different than most any other big school. 1L is a much different beast than any other class year.

The only place where 1L could possibly not be anxious is Yale and possibly Stanford.

User avatar
Xifeng
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:31 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Flash wrote:Is it too early to go into coasting mode?

If so, I'm pretty screwed.


I made a disapproving look at the computer at this. :|

User avatar
Flash
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Flash » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:54 pm

Xifeng wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Flash wrote:Is it too early to go into coasting mode?

If so, I'm pretty screwed.


I made a disapproving look at the computer at this. :|

Image

User avatar
Flash
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Flash » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:10 pm

Is there a scanner anywhere in The Law School?

Transferthrowaway
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 am

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:13 pm

Flash wrote:Is there a scanner anywhere in The Law School?

Not sure if you're looking for right now, but I think the copy machine in the reserve room can scan and send to an e-mail.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:17 pm

lsatcrazy wrote:Just read: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1958366

Any thoughts? Are the descriptions remotely accurate? Unloads pretty heavily on Levmore (aka "Not Silent"). He seems honest, but also a little kooky...

For those who couldn’t be bothered to read this, here’s the summary:

Peter Huang’s mother writes a paper about raising a high-achieving child, so he decides to “respond” by writing a paper in which he attacks every law school he perceives to have slighted him.

Penn denied him tenure, so he publicizes the various tricks they (and every other school, presumably) used to improve their ranking.

Virginia didn’t offer him an on-campus interview, so he trashes their students.

Chicago purportedly misled him about the nature of a one-year position, and – while studying at Chicago – professors publicly embarrassed him by asking questions he couldn’t answer about the readings, so he attacks the class offerings, the professors, and the weather.

An illustrative example: during one of the classes he taught at Virginia, he explains to his students that, in one respect, studying the law is like flossing or doing your laundry. The student newspaper then quotes him out of context – as saying “law school is like doing laundry and flossing,” without the part about how. Huang is so deeply upset about this that he feels the need to point it out in a paper a decade or so later.

The upshot: even by law school standards, this guy has to be one of the most bitter, highly-strung, petty, and puerile individuals around. Although, I can see how being denied tenure would account for a lot of that.

User avatar
JollyGreenGiant
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:12 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:32 pm

Dany wrote:Any thoughts on choosing a 1L elective? Our choices are

Comparative Legal Institutions (Ginsburg)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (Nussbaum)
International Trade Law (Bradford)
Jurisprudence I (Leiter)
Labor Law (Weinrib)
Legislation and Statutory Interpretation (Huq)

If I were a 1L, I'd go back and take Huq's class (although I did really enjoy my elective). It seems to be very useful, and Huq is a good teacher. He has a reputation for being a demanding teacher, and I think this is deserved, but he's also probably the most polite professor you will find. And he's not unfairly demanding, either.

User avatar
whenwin
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:38 am

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby whenwin » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:39 pm

Can anyone tell me, based on previous years, what the ASW schedule is like? Also, would I still get the travel reimbursement if I didn't stay til the end of the program?

ETA: Nvm
Last edited by whenwin on Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:26 pm

whenwin wrote: Also, would I still get the travel reimbursement if I didn't stay til the end of the program?

This is the kind of thing you should ask admissions, but I seriously doubt they'll reimburse you if you come late and leave early.

UChicagoStudent
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby UChicagoStudent » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:22 am

U of C 3L here! I haven't visited TLS in a very long time, but I would love to give back to TLS a bit. Ask some questions and I'll see if I can answer them for you.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:35 pm

I know that Chicago Law lets students take 4 classes outside of the law school during their 3 years, but I was wondering if there was any flexibility in this to allow students with perhaps more interdisciplinary interests (i.e. law and philosophy), to possibly appeal to be allowed to take more? Or is there perhaps some mechanism so that classes can be double-counted for a semester, even if they normally aren't, if a law school student shows an interest for taking that class?

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:I know that Chicago Law lets students take 4 classes outside of the law school during their 3 years, but I was wondering if there was any flexibility in this to allow students with perhaps more interdisciplinary interests (i.e. law and philosophy), to possibly appeal to be allowed to take more? Or is there perhaps some mechanism so that classes can be double-counted for a semester, even if they normally aren't, if a law school student shows an interest for taking that class?


A lot of classes are cross-listed between graduate programs. So for these cross-listed courses offered this year, you wouldn't even need to fill a "non law class" spot:

Human Rights 1 (taught by a philosophy professor)
Law & Philosophy (taught by Nussbaum)
Contemporary Virtue Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Cicero's De Finibus and Hellenistic Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Topics in Moral, Political, and Legal Philosophy (co-taught by Leiter and a philosophy professor)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (taught by Nussbaum)

And then on top of those, you could take a couple courses almost completely consisting of philosophy grad students.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:46 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I know that Chicago Law lets students take 4 classes outside of the law school during their 3 years, but I was wondering if there was any flexibility in this to allow students with perhaps more interdisciplinary interests (i.e. law and philosophy), to possibly appeal to be allowed to take more? Or is there perhaps some mechanism so that classes can be double-counted for a semester, even if they normally aren't, if a law school student shows an interest for taking that class?


A lot of classes are cross-listed between graduate programs. So for these cross-listed courses offered this year, you wouldn't even need to fill a "non law class" spot:

Human Rights 1 (taught by a philosophy professor)
Law & Philosophy (taught by Nussbaum)
Contemporary Virtue Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Cicero's De Finibus and Hellenistic Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Topics in Moral, Political, and Legal Philosophy (co-taught by Leiter and a philosophy professor)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (taught by Nussbaum)

And then on top of those, you could take a couple courses almost completely consisting of philosophy grad students.


Oh, I know! I've looked through the coursebook and it's made me quite excited! I was just wondering whether it was in any way possible to push that 4 course maximum upwards even more. Perhaps an appeals process for the student to explain why X course that isn't cross-listed is important to his/her education?

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:50 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I know that Chicago Law lets students take 4 classes outside of the law school during their 3 years, but I was wondering if there was any flexibility in this to allow students with perhaps more interdisciplinary interests (i.e. law and philosophy), to possibly appeal to be allowed to take more? Or is there perhaps some mechanism so that classes can be double-counted for a semester, even if they normally aren't, if a law school student shows an interest for taking that class?


A lot of classes are cross-listed between graduate programs. So for these cross-listed courses offered this year, you wouldn't even need to fill a "non law class" spot:

Human Rights 1 (taught by a philosophy professor)
Law & Philosophy (taught by Nussbaum)
Contemporary Virtue Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Cicero's De Finibus and Hellenistic Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Topics in Moral, Political, and Legal Philosophy (co-taught by Leiter and a philosophy professor)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (taught by Nussbaum)

And then on top of those, you could take a couple courses almost completely consisting of philosophy grad students.


Oh, I know! I've looked through the coursebook and it's made me quite excited! I was just wondering whether it was in any way possible to push that 4 course maximum upwards even more. Perhaps an appeals process for the student to explain why X course that isn't cross-listed is important to his/her education?


I kind of doubt it, but maybe there is. Don't think I know anybody who has tried.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I know that Chicago Law lets students take 4 classes outside of the law school during their 3 years, but I was wondering if there was any flexibility in this to allow students with perhaps more interdisciplinary interests (i.e. law and philosophy), to possibly appeal to be allowed to take more? Or is there perhaps some mechanism so that classes can be double-counted for a semester, even if they normally aren't, if a law school student shows an interest for taking that class?


A lot of classes are cross-listed between graduate programs. So for these cross-listed courses offered this year, you wouldn't even need to fill a "non law class" spot:

Human Rights 1 (taught by a philosophy professor)
Law & Philosophy (taught by Nussbaum)
Contemporary Virtue Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Cicero's De Finibus and Hellenistic Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Topics in Moral, Political, and Legal Philosophy (co-taught by Leiter and a philosophy professor)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (taught by Nussbaum)

And then on top of those, you could take a couple courses almost completely consisting of philosophy grad students.


Oh, I know! I've looked through the coursebook and it's made me quite excited! I was just wondering whether it was in any way possible to push that 4 course maximum upwards even more. Perhaps an appeals process for the student to explain why X course that isn't cross-listed is important to his/her education?


I kind of doubt it, but maybe there is. Don't think I know anybody who has tried.


Thanks for the help! If any other Chicago students have an idea, please let me know!

I'm really hoping to take one to two philosophy/political science graduate class each semester I'm in law school, cross-listed or not (I realize the first two quarters this could not be the case), so I was just hoping to see how much flexibility there is in Chicago's 4 class limit.

User avatar
Haymarket
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
A lot of classes are cross-listed between graduate programs. So for these cross-listed courses offered this year, you wouldn't even need to fill a "non law class" spot:

Human Rights 1 (taught by a philosophy professor)
Law & Philosophy (taught by Nussbaum)
Contemporary Virtue Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Cicero's De Finibus and Hellenistic Ethics (taught by Nussbaum)
Topics in Moral, Political, and Legal Philosophy (co-taught by Leiter and a philosophy professor)
Emotion, Reason, and Law (taught by Nussbaum)

And then on top of those, you could take a couple courses almost completely consisting of philosophy grad students.


Oh, I know! I've looked through the coursebook and it's made me quite excited! I was just wondering whether it was in any way possible to push that 4 course maximum upwards even more. Perhaps an appeals process for the student to explain why X course that isn't cross-listed is important to his/her education?


I kind of doubt it, but maybe there is. Don't think I know anybody who has tried.


Thanks for the help! If any other Chicago students have an idea, please let me know!

I'm really hoping to take one to two philosophy/political science graduate class each semester I'm in law school, cross-listed or not (I realize the first two quarters this could not be the case), so I was just hoping to see how much flexibility there is in Chicago's 4 class limit.

One or two each quarter? That, in my opinion, is far too much to be allowed and still qualify for a law degree. Wanting to do something like that is why dual JD/PhDs were created. Even given your opportunities with Law & _______ classes, I can tell you that you won't be able to take upwards of a third or half of your classes in philosophy outside the law school if you're supposed to be on a 3 year JD program.

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:30 pm

Haymarket wrote:One or two each quarter? That, in my opinion, is far too much to be allowed and still qualify for a law degree. Wanting to do something like that is why dual JD/PhDs were created. Even given your opportunities with Law & _______ classes, I can tell you that you won't be able to take upwards of a third or half of your classes in philosophy outside the law school if you're supposed to be on a 3 year JD program.


Well I've applied for JD/PhDs, but we'll see how those turn out. I'm not too confident about it.

Perhaps I'm a bit overly ambitious about my desire to take such classes outside of the first two quarters, but I'm really hoping to maximize the amount of such classes that is possible, which is why I'm wondering about the 4 course limit.

Edit- I meant to include the courses that are cross-listed in that amount too. Sorry for the ambiguity.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:27 pm

Could you guys comment on what you think of the OCI process at Chicago - what you liked or didn't like about it, how it compares to OCIs at other schools (from what you've heard), et cetera?

Obviously, OCI is a big deal, and I've recently come across some negative comments by UVA and Michigan students about their OCIs (because UVA uses preselects, and Michigan seems to have various problems in the details).

I know Chicago uses a pure lottery system with 50 bids, but that's about all I know. If anyone could better explain the process, that would be great also.

I just looked through the last ten pages of this thread and couldn't find any information.

User avatar
Dany
Posts: 11580
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby Dany » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:31 pm

Here's a short rundown: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140165&start=225#p4190107 but I'm sure if you have other questions the 2Ls/3Ls can chime in with their thoughts!

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:44 pm

Dany wrote:Here's a short rundown: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140165&start=225#p4190107 but I'm sure if you have other questions the 2Ls/3Ls can chime in with their thoughts!

Thanks! That explains the process nicely.

lsatcrazy
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby lsatcrazy » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:09 pm

Thanks for asking that Phil, I was going to ask as well in light of the NLJ data.

User avatar
California Babe
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:45 am

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby California Babe » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:24 am

lsatcrazy wrote:Thanks for asking that Phil, I was going to ask as well in light of the NLJ data.


If I understand correctly, the most recent NLJ data is always two years old, so it will be hard for current students to comment on OCI in a way that meaningfully relates to it.

lsatcrazy
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: UChi 2Ls (& 1L Future Academia Study Group) Taking Questions

Postby lsatcrazy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:43 am

California Babe wrote:
lsatcrazy wrote:Thanks for asking that Phil, I was going to ask as well in light of the NLJ data.


If I understand correctly, the most recent NLJ data is always two years old, so it will be hard for current students to comment on OCI in a way that meaningfully relates to it.

Oh I didn't mean the %ages, I just meant that the resulting convo in that thread has gotten me to research the OCI/bidding/lottery system of each school that I'm considering.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests