UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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big_willy_style_333
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby big_willy_style_333 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 pm

curry1 wrote:How do you all feel about Chicago's placement in California? Does it vary between LA and the Bay Area (assume very solid ties to both)?

Interested in this as well, except without ties.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Snuffles1 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:33 pm

One of us got LA with stellar grades and no ties, I got LA with meh grades and very strong ties (maybe some fun softs too). I know of non-TLS folks who also got LA and or SF/Bay Area, although I don't know their ties or grades.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby LSRAT » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:31 pm

Thanks for all the answers to our burning questions! I have one more for you: Is there anyone who has lived in Del Prado recently that can talk a little bit about their experience there? It seems like a good option but I haven't heard too much talk about it on here. The pictures look great online -- does it look the same in person?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby armc808 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:43 pm

big_willy_style_333 wrote:
curry1 wrote:How do you all feel about Chicago's placement in California? Does it vary between LA and the Bay Area (assume very solid ties to both)?

Interested in this as well, except without ties.

+1

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby HillandHollow » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:30 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:OK, finally read through all 197 pages of this thread, but I've still got these questions. Sorry there are so many, but I'm trying to do my due diligence. Thanks so much in advance for any insight! :)

1. Is it relatively easy to get your first-choice clinic? I'm particularly interested in International Human Rights and the Young Center for Immigrant Children's Rights. In the past, people posted about how they generally got their first choice, but I'm just wondering if that's still the case, or if things have changed and it's now more difficult, for whatever reason.

Mostly, yeah. Consider reaching out to the clinical professors you are interested in.

2. How beneficial or detrimental, if at all, is 1L summer clinic experience (as opposed to doing an SA or internship) for students aiming to go into Big Law? For those who are aiming for PI?

Not a big deal.

3. Do 1Ls get sufficient guidance on OCI/bidding and all that? Do 1Ls learn everything they need to know in order to be competitive for writing on to LR? I haven't worked as a paralegal or anything, so I worry I may be at a disadvantage relative to others who have had more extensive legal experience as 0Ls.

Yes, there is plenty of preparation for OCI, although you should really do some bidding strategy research outside of just what OCS tells you. Re: LR, go to to your Bigelow's office hours.

4. More generally, if anyone here comes from a less privileged background, have you found UChi to be adequately supportive? I'm a first-generation college student, so mentorship is important to me. Definitely experiencing imposter syndrome. :oops:

Meh. Not really. UCLaw as an institution doesn't really understand poor people, frankly. But that doesn't mean that there is no support at all. Rather, you need to be more proactive than the average student, and seek to form positive relationships. In other words, I guess the support is there if you look for it, but they definitely aren't going to hold your hand through the finding process.


5. If a student winds up in the bottom 10%, what kind of employment options are they looking at? I'd still imagine such a student's prospects are brighter coming out of UChi than a lower-ranked school. (Just thinking about the absolute worst-case scenario here...)

We don't rank, so it is sort of hard to define this. Plus, though someone MUST be in that range, I have no idea who they are. Most everyone I know who wants to be employed is, for better or worse, so your guess is probably right.

6. How are cell reception and Internet speed these days in different parts of/buildings in Hyde Park and at the law school itself? I read a lot of complaints from folks in Regents about shitty service and poor WiFi. (Also, is it really recommended to walk around the law school with an Ethernet cable, or is that a thing of the past?)

I brought an ethernet cable to class, but only because there is no wifi in the classrooms (on purpose). The wifi in the green lounge is adequate. Downstairs can get a little wonky, but why are you working down there? Internet in my apartments (55th/Kenwood, and 54th/Harper) was great, except when it was like CRAZY weather.


7. Does anybody have any thoughts on/experience with the JD/MA in International Relations dual degree, or any other dual degree program?

Nope. I did a certificate in addition to the JD, but it wouldn't be similar to what you are asking here.

8. Do spouses of law school students have access to UChi facilities and "perks" (ex. fitness center, healthcare, library, special rates for public transit)? I know spouses are eligible for U-SHIP, but I don't know if that only applies to spouses of students using the university insurance. I'll be keeping my own insurance (through my parents), but my spouse will be needing insurance.

don't know

9. The 75th percentile scholarship award is $30,000 over three years -- that ain't much. I know the standard advice is to never go someplace at sticker (except maybe YHS YSH), but it seems like most students at UChi are actually going at near or full sticker price. I just want to confirm that that's the case so I can assuage some guilt I'm feeling, as it looks like I'll probably be in that boat. (Still waiting on financial aid, but my LSAT is at the 25th percentile, so I'm not expecting much.)

I had a little more scholarship than that, but not much. My LSAT was similar to yours. It was still very expensive. But at some point, it's drops in the ocean ($200k vs $215k *technically* matters, but does it really?)

10. Last but not least: Does anyone know the criteria or stats of students who have been awarded the Cafaro scholarship?


I know one person who got it. She was smarter than me, about equally poor, and a much better student. Went to a non-special state school undergrad. Not sure what else to say? Feel free to PM me if you want to

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:36 pm

appind wrote:i was wondering if someone can help shed light on this. i have a science background but may want to switch to a public service law area (such as civil rights law or employment law) after LS. If one is looks mainly for govt positions, what kind of government jobs one can get to work in public-private or tri-sector partnerships in the civil division area (say, IP law or administrative law) after LS? If one has no pre-LS experience in civil rights or employment law related matters, how easy is it to convince those recruiting to get such job in government?


I'm not sure on this one, sorry. Government work (especially in administrative agencies) is a big question mark after the election. I will say that for a lot of the job postings I have seen, employers are looking for a science background plus law school, not necessarily legal or government experience plus law school. IP employers especially love science backgrounds. You can also show interest in government work during your 1L summer.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:45 pm

big_willy_style_333 wrote:
curry1 wrote:How do you all feel about Chicago's placement in California? Does it vary between LA and the Bay Area (assume very solid ties to both)?

Interested in this as well, except without ties.


It is very, very good. Most of the CA offices come to OCI, and several students have mass mailed the ones that do not, with success. Firms do care about school diversity, and there aren't many UoC students to begin with (even less that want to be in CA), so you do the math.

Most places will prefer ties, but they are not required (SF seems to care, sometimes). All in all, you'll have the easiest time in Los Angeles, simply due to the robust size of the legal market.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:04 pm

[quote="call-me-bubbles"]OK, finally read through all 197 pages of this thread, but I've still got these questions. Sorry there are so many, but I'm trying to do my due diligence. Thanks so much in advance for any insight! :)


2. How beneficial or detrimental, if at all, is 1L summer clinic experience (as opposed to doing an SA or internship) for students aiming to go into Big Law? For those who are aiming for PI?

Usually not at all detrimental for BigLaw. I would say that if you're a non-tradtional student whose resume screams I DONT WANT BIGLAW I WANT PI then maybe maaaybe you should think about this. But most students simply can't get paid firm jobs 1L. It's not expected that you do so. Clinic work is substantive legal work, and firms are more than fine with that.

3. Do 1Ls get sufficient guidance on OCI/bidding and all that? Do 1Ls learn everything they need to know in order to be competitive for writing on to LR? I haven't worked as a paralegal or anything, so I worry I may be at a disadvantage relative to others who have had more extensive legal experience as 0Ls.

You're fine without paralegal experience, totally fine. No 0Ls have had "legal experience" in any meaningful way! The main benefit of being a paralegal is that it shows employers that you know how to operate in a legal office. It doesn't really help with legal content or coursework. (Same is true of pre-law undergrad courses). We do get sufficient guidance on OCI, although doing your own research is expected and necessary (and completely manageable).

4. More generally, if anyone here comes from a less privileged background, have you found UChi to be adequately supportive? I'm a first-generation college student, so mentorship is important to me. Definitely experiencing imposter syndrome. :oops:

I think there is a lot of support available, especially informal support and mentorship from 2L and 3L students. If you end up coming here, please send me a PM so I can connect you with other first generation students! I would also suggest doing JumpStart, which is a program for Chicago-area law students. It's a great way to meet other students and get support and mentorship set up for your time in the law school.

One of the nice things about law school is that, as I said above, there's really no actual prep for it before you get here. That puts you on a relatively even footing with your peers from more $$$ backgrounds. Unlike, say, philosophy, where I am usually really poorly read and way behind students who went to "good" schools their whole life, everyone is starting from scratch. Given that, and given the way that OCI and legal hiring work, law school provides a surprisingly good opportunity for class mobility.


5. If a student winds up in the bottom 10%, what kind of employment options are they looking at? I'd still imagine such a student's prospects are brighter coming out of UChi than a lower-ranked school. (Just thinking about the absolute worst-case scenario here...)

It's tough to say. A lot will depend on your personal qualities (meaning your grit, persistence, hustle) and your ability to sell yourself in interviews as a pleasant, normal person. The school name itself opens a lot of doors, much more so than I was expecting it to going into the process.

6. How are cell reception and Internet speed these days in different parts of/buildings in Hyde Park and at the law school itself? I read a lot of complaints from folks in Regents about shitty service and poor WiFi. (Also, is it really recommended to walk around the law school with an Ethernet cable, or is that a thing of the past?)

The Ethernet cable is the funniest thing ever to me. Classic UChi. Anyway, no, you don't need one! Wifi in the law school building is great. I never had problems in Regents or in my other HP apartment. In my (limited, AirBnB) experience, TLC-owned buildings have shitty internet.

7. Does anybody have any thoughts on/experience with the JD/MA in International Relations dual degree, or any other dual degree program?

Since you're asking about dual degrees generally, that says to me that you don't have anything super-specific in mind. Given that, I would suggest thinking long and hard about whether a dual degree would be worth it from any school. The people I know who are getting them are either PhD students in other disciplines or have a really, really good reason for getting them. If your goal is to work in a field like international arbitration, they don't seem necessary. The JD opens up a lot of doors all by itself.

In terms of getting a dual degree here, specifically, the faculty and administrators here all seem open to it. I thought about it for a long time (JD/MBA) but ultimately decided against it because I got a job in the field I was looking for and it doesn't make sense, financially, to add the extra year onto my degree.


9. The 75th percentile scholarship award is $30,000 over three years -- that ain't much. I know the standard advice is to never go someplace at sticker (except maybe YHS YSH), but it seems like most students at UChi are actually going at near or full sticker price. I just want to confirm that that's the case so I can assuage some guilt I'm feeling, as it looks like I'll probably be in that boat. (Still waiting on financial aid, but my LSAT is at the 25th percentile, so I'm not expecting much.)

It does sound like a lot of people are coming here at sticker price. I'm not, so I have limited insight into that decision-making process, but I will say that it depends on your options and what you want to do with your degree. I'd be hesitant to take out that much in loans to do generic biglaw. This is a really specific question so please feel free to ask again when you get financial aid info, especially from other schools. I will say that you don't need to feel guilty about spending this much money. But I wouldn't base your decision about it on the other people going to the school. A lot of students here have family that can afford to help them out substantially. If that's not you, you're looking at a very different picture than those students are.

Hope that helps---good luck!

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:40 pm

big_willy_style_333 wrote:Just went through the previous posts to get a better sense of how the grading scale works, but I am still left with a couple questions related to grades:

1) Why? I don't understand why they would give their students a grading scale that could even potentially cause issues with employers' comprehension of it, especially when peer schools have moved in the exact opposite direction in terms of grade specificity (moving to some variation of HP/P/LP). Is the idea really just that employers might be so confused by it that they simply assume applicants are smart just because they went to UChi? Given the potential cost associated with having a weird grading scale, I imagine there is a more tangible benefit. Anyone have any experience applying to jobs outside of OCI and care to share how employers viewed their transcript? I will definitely ask about this at ASW, but any thoughts from less shilly sources would be helpful


A lot of things here are done that way because we've always done them that way, so there might not be a great reason. Employers are not confused or upset by the grades, though.

It's also really nice to give professors a good way of distinguishing between students while still giving all of those students "good" grades. If you're a student who doesn't immediately come across as super-smart, your professors can still appreciate it when you knock an exam out of the park. Given that I don't look the part in the way that some of my peers do (female, URM, shitty undergrad) it's nice to have an objective way to demonstrate my hard work and ability. Or, to be less abstract, I am extremely proud of the two 180+ grades I have gotten and I absolutely would not trade them for an H.


big_willy_style_333 wrote:2) I saw that the first set of exams only accounts for about ~15% of your 1L grades. It's nice that you have a gentler introduction to law school and get to learn a bit about exams before they have a substantial impact on your employment options, but do exams then count for ~42% of your 1L grades in each of the subsequent quarters (or is a good portion of the remaining 85% comprised of non-exam grades)? Seems like whatever benefit you get from easing into it would be outweighed by the subsequent stress of 85% of your grades being jammed into exams during the remainder of 1L.


That's not quite the breakdown, but assuming that it's close, most schools have the bulk of the stress in two exam periods, fall and spring. Ours are winter (late Feb, early March) and spring. I'm not sure that's a huge difference in stress, honestly, but I'd be curious to know how people who transferred from semester schools would see this. The quarter system is really different from the semester system.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:41 pm

LSRAT wrote:Thanks for all the answers to our burning questions! I have one more for you: Is there anyone who has lived in Del Prado recently that can talk a little bit about their experience there? It seems like a good option but I haven't heard too much talk about it on here. The pictures look great online -- does it look the same in person?


I know someone who lives there who really loves it. I wish I could be more helpful than that!

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby poptart123 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 am

Does anybody have any experience with Across the Midway classes? How to employers view them, and is there any difference of the view of a graduate econ course vs an undergraduate language course? Are the classes worth the time/effort?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby chicago-gunner123 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:53 pm

poptart123 wrote:Does anybody have any experience with Across the Midway classes? How to employers view them, and is there any difference of the view of a graduate econ course vs an undergraduate language course? Are the classes worth the time/effort?


Yes. You cannot take classes across the Midway until 2L and 3L year. For that reason, by the time you get to OCI you will not have any classes across the Midway on your transcript for employers to see. So, what employers think ends up being pretty irrelevant.

You should generally just take any classes that you are interested in across the Midway without worrying about perception. I know classmates who have taken computer science, language, public policy, and business school classes. Taking classes at Booth seems to be the most common crossover.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby GoLandcrabs » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Assuming I want to do BigLaw Chicago, would you recommend UChi at $$/$ (or maybe sticker if I'm unfortunate) or NU at $$$$?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:26 pm

GoLandcrabs wrote:Assuming I want to do BigLaw Chicago, would you recommend UChi at $$/$ (or maybe sticker if I'm unfortunate) or NU at $$$$?


NU

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby GoLandcrabs » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:12 pm

HuntedUnicorn wrote:
GoLandcrabs wrote:Assuming I want to do BigLaw Chicago, would you recommend UChi at $$/$ (or maybe sticker if I'm unfortunate) or NU at $$$$?


NU

Thank you. I am thinking of NU ED.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby HillandHollow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 pm

poptart123 wrote:Does anybody have any experience with Across the Midway classes? How to employers view them, and is there any difference of the view of a graduate econ course vs an undergraduate language course? Are the classes worth the time/effort?



I can't really speak to most of your question, but I CAN say that I took multiple classes "across the midway" (many of them were actually on our side of the midway, but whatever), and I really enjoyed it. It was nice to get away from the crushing self-importance of my fellow law students every now and then. It was equally nice to come back to the warm intellectual embrace of my fellow law students after spending an hour elsewhere.

Sort of kidding, but it really was worth it, in my opinion.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby elterrible78 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 pm

HillandHollow wrote:
poptart123 wrote:Does anybody have any experience with Across the Midway classes? How to employers view them, and is there any difference of the view of a graduate econ course vs an undergraduate language course? Are the classes worth the time/effort?



I can't really speak to most of your question, but I CAN say that I took multiple classes "across the midway" (many of them were actually on our side of the midway, but whatever), and I really enjoyed it. It was nice to get away from the crushing self-importance of my fellow law students every now and then. It was equally nice to come back to the warm intellectual embrace of my fellow law students after spending an hour elsewhere.

Sort of kidding, but it really was worth it, in my opinion.


Will second, and point out that when it comes to warm embraces, HillandHollow doesn't discriminate all that much.

I took three quarters of Italian and then a grad-level history class, and I enjoyed it all very, very much. As H&H pointed out, on the one hand it's nice to get away from the RIGOR for a few minutes every now and then (this was especially true for the language classes, which were both useful and refreshing reminder that non-law students exist in classrooms). On the other hand, after a couple years at The Law School, you may be shocked at what passes for critical thinking in other graduate departments. Anyway, definitely go for it, and damn the consequences, since there won't be any.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby HillandHollow » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:11 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
HillandHollow wrote:
poptart123 wrote:Does anybody have any experience with Across the Midway classes? How to employers view them, and is there any difference of the view of a graduate econ course vs an undergraduate language course? Are the classes worth the time/effort?



I can't really speak to most of your question, but I CAN say that I took multiple classes "across the midway" (many of them were actually on our side of the midway, but whatever), and I really enjoyed it. It was nice to get away from the crushing self-importance of my fellow law students every now and then. It was equally nice to come back to the warm intellectual embrace of my fellow law students after spending an hour elsewhere.

Sort of kidding, but it really was worth it, in my opinion.


Will second, and point out that when it comes to warm embraces, HillandHollow doesn't discriminate all that much.

I took three quarters of Italian and then a grad-level history class, and I enjoyed it all very, very much. As H&H pointed out, on the one hand it's nice to get away from the RIGOR for a few minutes every now and then (this was especially true for the language classes, which were both useful and refreshing reminder that non-law students exist in classrooms). On the other hand, after a couple years at The Law School, you may be shocked at what passes for critical thinking in other graduate departments. Anyway, definitely go for it, and damn the consequences, since there won't be any.


*warmly embraces ElTerrible for an awkwardly long time*

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby call-me-bubbles » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:36 pm

.
Last edited by call-me-bubbles on Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby poptart123 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:03 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:Offered $100,000 from Penn and $30,000 from Chicago. I don't expect them to match Penn's offer, though that would be a dream come true, but what do you guys think (possibly from your own experiences negotiating with Chicago) I could reasonably expect to squeeze out of them? Chicago's my top choice.


No idea how to answer your question but just wanted to say congrats because that's a pretty decent Penn offer

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 am

call-me-bubbles wrote:Offered $100,000 from Penn and $30,000 from Chicago. I don't expect them to match Penn's offer, though that would be a dream come true, but what do you guys think (possibly from your own experiences negotiating with Chicago) I could reasonably expect to squeeze out of them? Chicago's my top choice.


Dang, not sure. The process is complicated and involves the whole class, what other students are doing, etc. I'm sure it's different year-to-year as the applicant group changes.

Congrats on two good offers, though. I hope it works out for you and that we get to see you in the fall!

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:42 am

beepboopbeep wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:
Lordcarnus123 wrote:For those who chose Chicago over Columbia (assume same $$) - why?


Smaller class overall and Chicago >>> (and cheaper than) NYC.


Yea basically. Made this decision uhh 4 years ago now, I guess? It worked out. Had fun, have a good jerb.

Keep in mind "same $$" is actually like pretty substantially Chicago > Columbia if you are just talking "same amount of actual scholarship $". I got $10k less in actual scholarship from Chicago than from Columbia, but graduated with probably like $15k less debt from here than I would've from there after doing all the math.


Why is that? Both have an estimated COA of about 90k a year.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby daedalus2309 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:25 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:
Lordcarnus123 wrote:For those who chose Chicago over Columbia (assume same $$) - why?


Smaller class overall and Chicago >>> (and cheaper than) NYC.


Yea basically. Made this decision uhh 4 years ago now, I guess? It worked out. Had fun, have a good jerb.

Keep in mind "same $$" is actually like pretty substantially Chicago > Columbia if you are just talking "same amount of actual scholarship $". I got $10k less in actual scholarship from Chicago than from Columbia, but graduated with probably like $15k less debt from here than I would've from there after doing all the math.


Why is that? Both have an estimated COA of about 90k a year.


That just doesn't reflect reality. Compare rent in the two cities in one of those CoL calculators out there.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby CPA-->JD » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:43 pm

Anybody have any opinions on the Doctoroff program?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:45 pm

CPA-->JD wrote:Anybody have any opinions on the Doctoroff program?


Not in it but I have friends who are and they seem to like it a lot- definitely hooked people up with cool 1L summer jobs and is a good conversation piece for OCI.




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