UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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skers
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby skers » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:29 pm

segamebgeh wrote:
skers wrote:
segamebgeh wrote:Thanks for the quick reply, and that does make sense. Just to flesh out my concern a little more, I'm certainly not considering law school on the basis of a single class. I've been out of school for a couple of years, working essentially as a legal researcher. I very much enjoyed studying the field as a Law, Letters and Society student at UChicago and also like following the back and forth argumentation of briefs in my day job. I wouldn't say it's a great other career, but it's certainly a career with decent pay and job security, so there's a risk in giving it up. I do think I would do well as a lawyer, and it's the type of impactful career that appeals to me. But my worst fear is going to law school, finding it absolutely miserable, and leaving after a year with $25k in debt.

As I mentioned, I'm trying to sort out how much of this is normal levels of anxiety. I guess another way of getting advice on this, opposed to how seminars compare to core classes, whether any of you second-guessed yourself after you got accepted and things became more "real."


You should significantly adjust your worst-case scenario.


If I attend, I'll receive $50,000 in aid per year, so I suppose the real worst case is a miserable three years and graduating with $75k in debt--but I'd like to think if things went south I would leave before then. But do you mind if I ask whether you got cold feet at any point in the process?


Of course. If you don't have second or third thoughts about a decision w/ hundreds of thousands of dollars attached to it, Idk what kind of person you are really. I do think you're asking the wrong questions re whether you'll like law school (and esp. doctrinal classes) compared w/ whether you'll like being a lawyer.

03282016
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Postby 03282016 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:38 pm

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beepboopbeep
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:06 am

segamebgeh wrote:Hi all,

I've been recently admitted, but am having some last-minute doubts about going to law school. Any advice would be appreciated.

I went to UChicago for undergrad, and one of my favorite courses was "American Law and the Rhetoric of Race," which some undergrads were allowed to take. I realize they're different, but are required courses like Civil Procedure or Torts pretty far removed from the pace/rigor of electives like that?

And if anyone went to UChicago for undergrad as well, how would you say the workload compares? I've read on this board that the "fun goes to die" cliche is more accurate for undergrads than law students--did you have a fairly smooth transition?

Thanks for any help!


Heyyy. Also a UofC undergrad. Also graduated from the New Collegiate Division, but not LLSO (you can probably guess which). This'll be kinda rambly because halfdrunk.

The workload is more, relative to the undergrad. I think one thing many people realize after leaving UofC undergrad and doing grad programs somewhere else is that the UofC undergrad, while really demanding in some ways, is also pretty soft in a lot of other ways outside of the sciences. It's just assumed that you're doing all the outside work because this is UofC - no one actually notices if you aren't, and because so many classes especially in NCD/humanities end with papers, everyone tends to do pretty well. This just isn't the case with a curved issue spotter exam, like most of the doctrinal classes in law school will have. Especially in 1L there's a pressure on the day-to-day work that just wasn't there at the undergrad. The undergrad has lots of safety blankets that the law school doesn't have.

That said I don't know if I'd say it's more "rigorous" in the sense that UofC-folk think of "rigor". The practical side of shit tends to get discussed a lot more here rather than like The Underlying Theory of Law or whatever. At least on my side of NCD there was a lot of reading current scholarship, big lofty capital-T theory discussions, etc and that only really happens in some of the electives at the law school, or at least that's been my experience. Ultimately it's a different field, but I think the law school also just has a different pedagogical approach. More being-talked-at. Less open-ended discussion. It's not /easier/, but it also doesn't ask for the same kind of active participation.

I think I had 2-3 lectures total in undergrad and they were all required science classes. Everything else was like a 5-20 person seminar. This will basically flip first year, whether you go here or somewhere else. Your only seminar in 1L will probably be legal writing. After that you're limited to 4 seminars each year for 2L and 3L.

A big difference is that I rarely felt the undergrad was a competitive environment. Mostly just kids nerding out about finally being around other smart/excited people their age, and getting to study cool shit. At the law school, I tried to ignore the competitive bullshit as much as possible during 1L and... you just can't help but notice the tension sometimes. It's peoples' futures on the line and especially in winter quarter when the first set of grades come out, it's a tense place. Lots of bullshit competitiveness that continues well after any point at which it should matter. I dunno if that's more true here or at other law schools. But it's distinctly different from the undergrad either way.

I do think skers is right that overall you should be asking whether you'll enjoy life as a lawyer rather than life in law school. That said if you're going to go to law school no matter what, and are picking between similar schools (w/r/t employment data) as you probably are, it's fair to ask where you'll be happiest for three years.

Honestly if you're looking for "UofC undergrad - the law school version", I don't think they're that similar of places. The weirdo quota is not even close, which is either a good thing if you hated that about the undergrad or a bad thing if that was part of the draw. Obviously I don't have any experience going to any other law school, but in terms of attitude YLS seems like a much closer comparison.

As far as transition: similar to you I worked a couple years between UG and LS so I don't know how much of this is attributable to what, but I felt it was fine. I did well without killing myself on work, though I definitely worked more in any individual quarter of 1L than I did in any individual quarter of ugrad (including the one in which my thesis was due).

Re: second-guessing: not yet. I'm kinda ambivalent currently on whether I'd make the same decision if I could go back to pre-law-school and do it all over again, but that has nothing to do with law school. It's been at least reasonably enjoyable for most of the 2+ years I've been here. But the spectre of biglawl looms. THAT's what you should be worrying about. If you liked LLSO classes you'll probably like law school classes even though they are different. Not quite as clear you'll like actual lawyer work, though your job sounds reasonably similar on the surface.

Iunno. That probably has like 6x as many words as anyone cares to read, but feel free to PM.

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Rahviveh
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:17 pm

segamebgeh wrote:Hi all,

I've been recently admitted, but am having some last-minute doubts about going to law school. Any advice would be appreciated.

I went to UChicago for undergrad, and one of my favorite courses was "American Law and the Rhetoric of Race," which some undergrads were allowed to take. I realize they're different, but are required courses like Civil Procedure or Torts pretty far removed from the pace/rigor of electives like that?

And if anyone went to UChicago for undergrad as well, how would you say the workload compares? I've read on this board that the "fun goes to die" cliche is more accurate for undergrads than law students--did you have a fairly smooth transition?

Thanks for any help!


I've never taken that seminar but I doubt it is anything like doctrinal classes. Doctrinal classes are mostly useless gibberish and tryhard pseudo intellectualism. I think you'd be better off doing a PhD if you like the academic stuff. Nobody respects the academic stuff done in law schools.

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everything_bagel
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby everything_bagel » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:11 am

1L feels pretty intellectual and Theory-grounded to me (take this as a less cynical version of Rahviveh's comment, I guess). That might be a product of peers' thoughtfulness more than anything else. It feels like being surrounded by a ton of high-functioning nerds, which might be appealing after a ug with a higher weirdo quotient?

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Postby 03282016 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:03 pm

Last edited by 03282016 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chicago-gunner123
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby chicago-gunner123 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:43 pm

Is it ridiculous/lazy to only take 9 credits winter quarter? I will be writing my SRP due at the end of the quarter and I am thinking that taking 9 credits would make that a little more doable. I don't want to make it impossible to graduate though. My schedule would be: Con Law II, Income Tax, and a Seminar.

Also, does anyone have any reviews on Contract Drafting/Ambiguity with Preston Torbert and/or Ethics of Lawyering with Clark Remington? Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

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beepboopbeep
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:37 pm

chicago-gunner123 wrote:Is it ridiculous/lazy to only take 9 credits winter quarter? I will be writing my SRP due at the end of the quarter and I am thinking that taking 9 credits would make that a little more doable. I don't want to make it impossible to graduate though. My schedule would be: Con Law II, Income Tax, and a Seminar.


Nah winter always sucks, roll w/ as little as you can get away with and still be on track for 32/33 at the end of the year. You'll probably also want a chill spring schedule too, though, especially if you're going to move for your SA pretty quickly after exams. Last year my spring was like: takehome exam one day, in-class exam next day, move out to SA city next day, start work day after that. That fricking blew. So while winter sucks, if that's gonna be your situation, save your light quarter for Spring instead

droit
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby droit » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:48 pm

Any thoughts on Contract Drafting with Neal, Professional Responsibility with Pacold, or Con Law I with Lacroix? Is it worth taking PR before the MPRE or can I just wait until sometime during 3L?

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elterrible78
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby elterrible78 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:34 pm

droit wrote:Any thoughts on Contract Drafting with Neal, Professional Responsibility with Pacold, or Con Law I with Lacroix? Is it worth taking PR before the MPRE or can I just wait until sometime during 3L?


Contract Drafting with Neal was the most practical, useful class I've had. If you're planning on doing transactional work, you should absolutely take it.

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skers
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby skers » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:35 am

I heard the contract drafting class had a pretty high workload, so it'd be off my list for that reason.

droit
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby droit » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:39 pm

Thanks for the insight!

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Rahviveh
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:42 pm

anyone who took roman law as a 1L with Epstein think ITd be ok To take as an upperclassman? The revieWS are bad but i assume those are all by 1Ls

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hairbear7
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby hairbear7 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:09 pm

For those of you who had Helmholz for property, Is it necessary to buy the 4th edition of Fundamentals of Property Law, or is the 3rd edition okay? I accidentally ordered the 3rd edition and am not sure how much they differ.

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skers
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby skers » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:40 am

I don't think current editions really matter or text books in general. You can find out the couple cases you need on case briefs.com or whatever. I stopped buying textbooks after 1L and wish I had done so sooner for more beer money.

WheninLaw
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:34 pm

hairbear7 wrote:For those of you who had Helmholz for property, Is it necessary to buy the 4th edition of Fundamentals of Property Law, or is the 3rd edition okay? I accidentally ordered the 3rd edition and am not sure how much they differ.


It's fine. As an aside, I recommend against ever buying books.

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hairbear7
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby hairbear7 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:02 pm

Haha thanks you two!

BUCKSfan93
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby BUCKSfan93 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:24 pm

Hey Everyone,

Quick Question. I got accepted at UC with a nice scholarship offer and am seriously considering attending. What I would like to know is how KJDs have fared at OCI at UC in the recent past. I have no full-time work experience, and I don't plan to defer my matriculation. However, like the vast majority of people I have had several legal internships during undergrad.

All responses are appreciated

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everything_bagel
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby everything_bagel » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:14 pm

BUCKSfan93 wrote:Hey Everyone,

Quick Question. I got accepted at UC with a nice scholarship offer and am seriously considering attending. What I would like to know is how KJDs have fared at OCI at UC in the recent past. I have no full-time work experience, and I don't plan to defer my matriculation. However, like the vast majority of people I have had several legal internships during undergrad.

All responses are appreciated


You won't have a worse shot at UChi's OCI than anywhere else's.

For some people, a lack of work experience really shows in social/interview context. Less for others. I think having WE is less important than having perspective and a clear sense of what you want to do (or a route to this). I personally recommend WE but if you're determined not to defer (or your scholarship won't allow it) this should be a fine place for you: you won't be alone. (That said, there are fewer KJDs here than I was expecting.)

KG2019
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby KG2019 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:32 pm

Hi! I was wondering if anyone is pursuing a career in international human rights or, alternatively, knows someone who would be willing to talk to me about their experience at Chicago.

WheninLaw
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

BUCKSfan93 wrote:Hey Everyone,

Quick Question. I got accepted at UC with a nice scholarship offer and am seriously considering attending. What I would like to know is how KJDs have fared at OCI at UC in the recent past. I have no full-time work experience, and I don't plan to defer my matriculation. However, like the vast majority of people I have had several legal internships during undergrad.

All responses are appreciated


You have as good a shot at Chicago as anywhere.

UChicago2017
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby UChicago2017 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:01 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
BUCKSfan93 wrote:Hey Everyone,

Quick Question. I got accepted at UC with a nice scholarship offer and am seriously considering attending. What I would like to know is how KJDs have fared at OCI at UC in the recent past. I have no full-time work experience, and I don't plan to defer my matriculation. However, like the vast majority of people I have had several legal internships during undergrad.

All responses are appreciated


You have as good a shot at Chicago as anywhere.


Where k-jd matters is if you have below median grades. You won't have any trouble getting a job with median or above grades, simply because there are so many to go around. Some of the most successful people I know at OCI (in terms of offers) were successful because of grades, not work experience. Also the number of people with legitimate pre-law school experience is surprisingly small.

secadc11
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby secadc11 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:24 pm

Best clinic to work for 1L summer?

WheninLaw
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:35 pm

secadc11 wrote:Best clinic to work for 1L summer?


The one you're interested in.

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segamebgeh
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby segamebgeh » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:08 pm

Anyone have any advice on attending Admitted Students' Weekend if you've already decided you're going? I went to UChicago undergrad, so I know what the neighborhood/campus is like. I'd have to use some vacation days from work to attend and plane tickets from where I live will be at least $300 more than the reimbursement limit. Is it like orientation, where people make close friends or, because a fair amount of people won't attend anyway, is it not really worthwhile if you've sent in your deposit beforehand? Thanks!




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