UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions Forum

[Manhattan]

Man... The course offering for next quarter kind of sucks. It is going to be very difficult to both takes classes that don't suck and only have class 3 days a week.

[Mal Reynolds]

who the hell are you.

[c0llegeStUd3nt]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

[Emma.]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

Bragging about outlining on FB is fucking asinine. But you may as well get started now. Sooner you start, the sooner you'll be done.

[Rahviveh]

What are the best ethics courses to take?

Next quarter there is:

Ethical quandaries in legal practice with Alesia and fairley

Professional responsibility in the real world with Harmon Clark and Sweeney

Law and ethics of lawyering with Remington

The evals seem mixed

[Robb]

What are the best ethics courses to take?

Next quarter there is:

Ethical quandaries in legal practice with Alesia and fairley

Professional responsibility in the real world with Harmon Clark and Sweeney

Law and ethics of lawyering with Remington

The evals seem mixed

I'd wait until next year and take it with Hoeflich. he has been great

[Emma.]

What are the best ethics courses to take?

Next quarter there is:

Ethical quandaries in legal practice with Alesia and fairley

Professional responsibility in the real world with Harmon Clark and Sweeney

Law and ethics of lawyering with Remington

The evals seem mixed

Ethical Quandaries was pretty baller. We had a bunch of guest speakers including the GC for a big corporation and a federal judge. Big class participation component in the grade though.

[Manhattan]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

The people who brag on FB about how much they're studying and make you feel bad about yourself have an exponentially higher chance of not being here when 2L rolls around. Just ignore them and study at your own pace.

[Crowing]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

Now would be a dece time to start but I wouldn't sweat it. My Elements outline was probably like 3 pages lol. Just make sure you're familiar with the FRCP and you'll probably do fine this quarter.

PS: What's the story on prereqs for classes? Are they typically hard prereqs or are they moreso suggestions about what you should know? Is there somebody that should be contacted to ask about waiving them?

[Crowing]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

Also your class is weird.

[gchatbrah]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

Also your class is weird.

+1. Bizarre.

[beepboopbeep]

I didn't start until early December. Don't sweat it, but know yourself. If you can crank it out, just do that. Once you're past a minimum amount of work the returns on more work are really marginal, and the returns on chilling out are substantial. Just as long as you have a bit of time to take practice tests.

Their class seems more normal than ours tbh but I guess I haven't really interacted with them too much. Just surface observation, though I guess the few I've had anything more than passing interaction with have been odd. Much less active on TLS than our class is / was, which is probably a good thing.

[elterrible78]

I didn't start until early December. Don't sweat it, but know yourself. If you can crank it out, just do that. Once you're past a minimum amount of work the returns on more work are really marginal, and the returns on chilling out are substantial. Just as long as you have a bit of time to take practice tests.

Yep.

[WheninLaw]

1L here. I haven't started outlining AT ALL. People seem to be bragging on fb (lol) about how they are starting though.

Anyone have advice on when to start?

Now would be a dece time to start but I wouldn't sweat it. My Elements outline was probably like 3 pages lol. Just make sure you're familiar with the FRCP and you'll probably do fine this quarter.

PS: What's the story on prereqs for classes? Are they typically hard prereqs or are they moreso suggestions about what you should know? Is there somebody that should be contacted to ask about waiving them?

LS "prereqs" are suggestions, and you can ignore them as you wish. The Booth ones matter, and you often need to email the Professor.

[UnicornHunter]

I want to grab a second slice of pie and call it lunch, but I feel like that would be an incredibly fat thing to do. Thoughts?

[Manhattan]

I want to grab a second slice of pie and call it lunch, but I feel like that would be an incredibly fat thing to do. Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure that is the normal thing to do. If you are only eating one piece of pie, you're doing something wrong.

[lawlschool1l]

Thanks for the help!

[Emma.]

Dearest 3Ls that had Stone for elements:

Do you have recommendations on how to approach his final, given that there are only 2 practice exams available?

Also, how bad do commercial outlines tend to be? Aside from making my outline, should i be checking them against commercial outlines or should i be pestering upperclassman for their outlines. Is that considered annoying/rude!?

Thanks for the help!

You obviously can't find a commercial outline for Elements, and most commercial CivPro outlines won't be much help with the way UChicago structures CivPro classes, since commercial outlines will likely focus more on Stuff covered in CivProII. Anyway, more than having some great outline, it's the process of making an outline that helps you prepare for exams. I never found other people's outlines to be that useful, since everyone processes stuff differently. It is nice when you are starting an outline to have old ones to help you think about how you want to structure your own, though. I wouldn't just walk up to random upperclassmen to ask for outlines, but hopefully by now you have a few that you are friendly with (if not, it's time to start meeting folks outside your class!), as well as a big sibling. Asking for help & outlines from people you actually know is absolutely expected and not at all rude. Everyone remembers how stressful 1L can seem, and they should be happy to help you out.

[beepboopbeep]

Agreed with all of Emma's thoughts. I didn't use anyone else's outlines, but it was good to look at a few to see the general structure. There's probably stuff on BLSA but feel free to PM if you want any of mine, 1Ls. I have no idea what profs you guys have this year though; obviously no one in the current 2L crop had Stone.

[lawschool2014hopeful]

How does one type so much in the elements exams? 2:30 hours and 5 pages (sample answers)? Is that abnormal?

[Robb]

How does one type so much in the elements exams? 2:30 hours and 5 pages (sample answers)? Is that abnormal?

Do you mean physically? Or how does one come up with so much to respond? If you mean physically, that's about 30wpm (4458 words from copying and pasting into Word) on average, so it's definitely doable. I think for my exams last year I typically came out from 3000-5000 words. McAdams had an approximately 2000 word limit for his half of the exam - so 2000 words in 1.5 hours - and I did not manage to get under the limit. I think I was actually like 400 words over for lack of time to proofread.

If you mean how do you come up with so much to respond, honestly, it fills up faster than you'd think. A lot of people say quality > quantity, but I think quantity is very important in one sense: you need to spot the issues. Quality is important in the sense that you need to spot the right issues (that is, the right issues have to be in there somewhere... I don't think most professor take off for spotting "wrong" issues, but at the very least if you do and then explain them you're wasting your time). I'd say, besides spotting the issues, which is just something you have to do, your two main focuses should be (1) explaining the major arguments on each side of the issue, including their weaknesses, and if applicable rejecting the argument and explaining why the weaknesses overcome the upshots, or, otherwise, stating that the argument will likely prevail, and explaining why the weaknesses don't overcome the upshots and (2) quickly dismissing the minor arguments on each side of the issue. By major arguments, I mean the ones that will carry the day or appear to carry the day or are not easily accepted or dismissed, and by minor arguments I mean those that are not likely to decide the case or are easily dismissed. Even if it's a major argument that will decide the case, if it's a simple one, of course don't spend much time on it. I don't really remember the Rule Against Perpetutities, but that's an example of a place where you're probably not going to have extensive arguments on each side of an issue. Although IIRC there is a new version of it or something that you might want to mention.

Unless it's someone like Strahilevitz who takes off for spelling, the quality of the writing isn't really that important. I think it's generally better to throw out as many plausible arguments as you can and fully explaining them. Organization is great, though, to spoonfeed the professor and clearly identify the issues you're spotting.

Also, re: outlines, you all are going to receive access to a new outline bank later this week, and that will have a bunch of outlines, including at least two for Stone's elements class.

Also -- and this is probably the most useful part of this post -- highly recommend taking beepboopbeep up on his outline offer if you haven't already. Seriously, do it. I am happy to provide mine as well, but they're also in that outline bank you'll be getting access to, and you want his more anyway.

[Mal Reynolds]

Take practice exams under timed conditions. Compare and contrast with your friends. Then compare against the model answers.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

0L w/ question. Do you feel that students at UChi are marinated in an intellectual environment more-so than your peers at other t14s? Do ideas matter, or is the experience, like at other schools, just going to class and studying for finals? Surely students can seek out that intellectual law school experience anywhere, but I'm interested to know if it is more pervasive - maybe even the expectation - at UChi. Thx

[Mal Reynolds]

0L w/ question. Do you feel that students at UChi are marinated in an intellectual environment more-so than your peers at other t14s? Do ideas matter, or is the experience, like at other schools, just going to class and studying for finals? Surely students can seek out that intellectual law school experience anywhere, but I'm interested to know if it is more pervasive - maybe even the expectation - at UChi. Thx

I hope at the end of my time at U Chicago I can look back and say that I've never been marinated in anything.

[Snuffles1]

0L w/ question. Do you feel that students at UChi are marinated in an intellectual environment more-so than your peers at other t14s? Do ideas matter, or is the experience, like at other schools, just going to class and studying for finals? Surely students can seek out that intellectual law school experience anywhere, but I'm interested to know if it is more pervasive - maybe even the expectation - at UChi. Thx

I hope at the end of my time at U Chicago I can look back and say that I've never been marinated in anything.

Nonsense Mal. One would hope you marinate in something (admittedly something quaffable) on a regular basis.