UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Emma.
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:53 am

bk1 wrote:@ that graph: what is this i dont even

orbotop wrote:so it doesn't matter whether you think the prospective student is crazy or ignorant for valuing an opportunity to clerk so highly. he or she wants to do it. who knows exactly why. who cares why. take it as a given and ask what makes sense.

I'm not going to weigh in on the decision since this isn't my school's thread and I'm not an objective party, but I take issue with this. Lots of applicants are ignorant about legal hiring. Even the more informed ones are often just parroting things they have learned from law students and lawyers without doing any critical thinking of their own. Take clerkships for example: a lot of 0Ls value clerkships very highly and seek them out in choosing a school, but only because someone told them they should value them very highly and should seek them out. These same 0Ls haven't thought through why a clerkship is valuable to them and how it fits into their career goals. They also haven't thought through the downsides of clerking ($50k+ in foregone income which is a significant chunk of change for people with $250k+ debt, often moving to some random part of the country for a year, etc). I'm not saying the poster here hasn't thought clerking through, but with this in mind I think it absolutely makes sense to ask "why?" and question 0Ls. Often times the answer behind the facade will merely be that the person is chasing a brass ring because law students and lawyers have told them that clerking is a brass ring.


A thousand times this.

No idea what has led clerkship chances have become such a metric for 0Ls. It makes no sense. Except when you realize that law students are all about brass-ring chasing. It is crazy that despite TLS's best efforts, 0Ls are still generally so ill-informed about what legal hiring is all about.

20141023
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 20141023 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:02 am

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Neal Patrick Harris
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:08 am

kappycaft1 wrote:I actually kind of liked the optimism in the proposed rule, though: If your LSAT/GPA are low enough that you barely make it into a school (and thus receive $0 scholarship), you should assume that your law-school grades will be in the top 10% of your class.


This is uncalled for, kappycaft1.

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elterrible78
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby elterrible78 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:20 am

Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:I actually kind of liked the optimism in the proposed rule, though: If your LSAT/GPA are low enough that you barely make it into a school (and thus receive $0 scholarship), you should assume that your law-school grades will be in the top 10% of your class.


This is uncalled for, kappycaft1.


I kind of don't want to further contribute to the devolution of this whole thing, so I'll just make two quick points:

1. Orbotop, I think we all get that BigLaw shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of law student aspirations. Kind of interested in it myself. At the same time, you seem to seriously discount how much $150,000 is, and what that kind of wager implies. Everything else equal, absolutely give yourself the best shot at it. But to not make your choices bearing in mind the possibility of a clerkship not happening is pretty reckless.

2. I personally know someone who picked U Chicago precisely because it places relatively well into clerkships and academia. This person came in highly confident that it was almost a foregone conclusion that this dream would become a reality. Two quarters into 1L, and it's clearly not going to happen. I have no idea what this student's other options were to begin with, in terms of scholarship, but I'd love to hear you make the argument to this individual that the dream was worth $150k.

20141023
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 20141023 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:51 am

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c0llegeStUd3nt
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby c0llegeStUd3nt » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:27 am

Ok, so it's looking more and more like if if I attend Uchicago next year, I would have to take out about 200k in loans to do so.

Anyone in this thread financing their UChicago education with a similarly high load willing to share thoughts or whatever on the topic, maybe help calm me down about it? (my hopeful outcome is big law)

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2014
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 2014 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:38 am

Wtf is this discussion above

c0llegeStUd3nt wrote:Ok, so it's looking more and more like if if I attend Uchicago next year, I would have to take out about 200k in loans to do so.

Anyone in this thread financing their UChicago education with a similarly high load willing to share thoughts or whatever on the topic, maybe help calm me down about it? (my hopeful outcome is big law)

I'll probably end up over 200k, especially with undergrad loans. It's easily doable either on a PI or Big Law salary though I assume you/we will be marginally more stressed about job retention than someone with less debt. All indications are that if you can cross the hurdle of your first job you will be in good shape for your second one though, so it's a worry I was willing to bear.

Note that what it does prevent you from doing is taking any sort of mid law job, including some lower paying secondary "big law" gigs (some cities have starting salaries of ~110k). The problem is that your debt is not adjusted for COL differences, so you almost need to be on LRAP or making 145-160k to deal with it. These are the two options that the overwhelming majority of grads here take though, so again it was something I was willing to deal with.

Neal Patrick Harris
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:26 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:I actually kind of liked the optimism in the proposed rule, though: If your LSAT/GPA are low enough that you barely make it into a school (and thus receive $0 scholarship), you should assume that your law-school grades will be in the top 10% of your class.
This is uncalled for, kappycaft1.
:roll: Meh... If we make the assumption that someone who received $0 at UChicago actually decides to come here because 10% of our class gets clerkships, the chances of them being in the 10% that have grades which are competitive for law review/clerkships/etc. are extremely low.

LSAT/GPA are not perfect predictors, but I think that someone with a Ruby should view the employment outcomes at UChicago in a different light than someone who barely made it in the doors (and I say this as part of the latter group). The main reason I posted that was because of this remark: "people should quit suggesting that every person who chooses a law school should do so based on the outcome of the median student choosing the normal path out of graduation. that's not a bad reality check, but its a bad decision rule."

If you are going in with bottom-of-the-barrel stats, I think it would be insane to expect anything more than median. Of course it could happen, but when $150,000 is on the line, it doesn’t make sense to tell someone to come to our school just because some of our brightest students are able to land preftigious positions as federal clerks.



My complaint isn't the argument, it's the implication that the poster, who didn't even bring up the settlements thing, would struggle to end up in the top of the class because of his low credentials. There are plenty of people with small scholarships that do fairly well at UChicago, and I don't want us telling people with lower numbers to not attend.

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rayiner
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:13 am

Clerking is a great experience, but valuing small differences in clerkship odds at $150k is insane. 90%+ of U of C clerks will go back to private sector firms, and almost all of those will be firms that those folks could've gotten with their 1L grades alone. There's a handful of boutiques that only hire clerks, and U of C is impressively overrepresented at those firms, but even still only a small portion of the class is in the running for those jobs.

EDIT: But hey, if your parents are rich and you want to gun for the absolute top of the profession, U of C is a better platform than NU. Feeder clerkships, SCOTUS, etc. Top 5% + LR at U of C is a good place to be. Just don't assume it "trickles down." There's not really a class of jobs reserved for people who make top 15% and D. Ct.
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Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:17 am

0Ls, if you don't listen to rayiner then you are wrong. He is one of the single best resources in the on-topics.

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Let It Roll
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Let It Roll » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:53 am

How hard is it to get biglaw in LA if you dont have ties there?

Thanks to all the current students answering questions. Super helpful. :)

20141023
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 20141023 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:10 pm

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Neal Patrick Harris
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:19 pm

Thanks kappycaft1. I agree. Just wanted to push back a bit against that.

mk87
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby mk87 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:24 pm

I posted a 'Choosing Between' thread earlier today with poll results supporting kappycaft1's logic, however I am nonetheless interested to hear from current UChi students about what factors I should consider when making my decision. I don't think it's as easy a decision as the poll results indicate, and I haven't heard anyone speak up in support of UChi yet. Thanks in advance and sorry to interject! http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=228137&

WheninLaw
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:32 am

Let It Roll wrote:How hard is it to get biglaw in LA if you dont have ties there?

Thanks to all the current students answering questions. Super helpful. :)


Not hard. There are a number of people working in LA this summer without ties. Some connection to California definitely helps, but is not mandatory.

Canof09
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Canof09 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:15 pm

There was some talk of the "International Immersion" trips at ASW, and I have a few questions about them. They sound like a great opportunity, especially since the law school finances a portion of them, but could someone who attended one of these trips tell me how much you personally spent on them? Are 1Ls allowed to attend or is this for 2Ls and 3Ls only?

Thanks!

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Let It Roll
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Let It Roll » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:46 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
Let It Roll wrote:How hard is it to get biglaw in LA if you dont have ties there?

Thanks to all the current students answering questions. Super helpful. :)


Not hard. There are a number of people working in LA this summer without ties. Some connection to California definitely helps, but is not mandatory.


That's good to hear. Thanks for the help!

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drawstring
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby drawstring » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:51 pm

Let It Roll wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Let It Roll wrote:How hard is it to get biglaw in LA if you dont have ties there?

Thanks to all the current students answering questions. Super helpful. :)


Not hard. There are a number of people working in LA this summer without ties. Some connection to California definitely helps, but is not mandatory.


That's good to hear. Thanks for the help!

20141023
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 20141023 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:38 pm

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Robb
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby Robb » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:38 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Canof09 wrote:There was some talk of the "International Immersion" trips at ASW, and I have a few questions about them. They sound like a great opportunity, especially since the law school finances a portion of them, but could someone who attended one of these trips tell me how much you personally spent on them? Are 1Ls allowed to attend or is this for 2Ls and 3Ls only?

Thanks!
I know at least one 1L went to Kenya over spring break this year; you've probably already found this, but here is some more info about it. If you've got some money to blow and nothing better to do, I suppose this could be a good way to travel to a country that perhaps you've never been to before, but I don't think it actually does very much for you other than being a potentially fun experience.

A person who was on the trip saw this post and wanted me to recommend against doing this as a 1L, because the due date for the research paper for the trip is due about the same time as the Spring brief, which adds to the already stressful period. You also don't get the added benefit relaxing during Spring break. Also, you can only do this once in law school, so save it for a time when it will be less stressful.

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2014
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 2014 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:04 am

The international trip my 1L year was over winter break and so I'm guessing the paper wasn't a big issue then so just know that circumstances could be different next year again.

I agree that waiting until 2L year is probably the best idea if it's going to conflict with academics unless you are really into the destination since they go somewhere different every year.

c0llegeStUd3nt
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby c0llegeStUd3nt » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:22 am

For those who shared a double their 1L year, how did you all go about finding a roommate?

WheninLaw
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:34 am

c0llegeStUd3nt wrote:For those who shared a double their 1L year, how did you all go about finding a roommate?


Incoming class TLS thread.

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2014
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby 2014 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:20 am

c0llegeStUd3nt wrote:For those who shared a double their 1L year, how did you all go about finding a roommate?

Facebook group is where the majority found ea other i think

orangec90
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Re: UChi Current Students Taking Questions

Postby orangec90 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:47 pm

If I don't begin the housing process until July, are my options severely limited in terms of vacancies in Shoreland, Regents, graduate housing, etc. and the finding a roommate process? I'm (happily!) committed to Chicago but I'm on a waitlist for a school I would strongly consider attending if accepted. However, I'd be nervous about waiting until summer and then having no one to split the rent with and no chance at a studio vacancy in one of the nicer buildings.

Edit: whoops, saw the vacancy question answered earlier. My question just applies to finding roommates late in the summer




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