UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 9:27 pm

bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


NYC lucrative? If you want to make money, go to one of the market-paying firms in Texas. No state income tax, and $160K + bonus in TX goes a loooooooong way.

Sure, if you want W&C or Wachtell you have to be in NY, and maybe for some people prestige is important in a firm, but where prestige might be a reasonable factor to consider when choosing schools, IMO it is a lot less important in selecting a firm. A more prestigious school might give you more employment options, whereas a more prestigious firm will probably just work you harder (see Wachtell). But plenty of people don't want to work 100 hours every week, no matter how much it pays. Wachtell's interview schedule didn't even fill up at OCI this year.

GoodFood
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby GoodFood » Wed May 02, 2012 9:41 pm

Emma. wrote:
bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


NYC lucrative? If you want to make money, go to one of the market-paying firms in Texas. No state income tax, and $160K + bonus in TX goes a loooooooong way.

Sure, if you want W&C or Wachtell you have to be in NY, and maybe for some people prestige is important in a firm, but where prestige might be a reasonable factor to consider when choosing schools, IMO it is a lot less important in selecting a firm. A more prestigious school might give you more employment options, whereas a more prestigious firm will probably just work you harder (see Wachtell). But plenty of people don't want to work 100 hours every week, no matter how much it pays. Wachtell's interview schedule didn't even fill up at OCI this year.


What does this mean?

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 9:43 pm

GoodFood wrote:What does this mean?


It means that people bid conservatively and preferred not to waste interview slots on an uber selective firm.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 9:44 pm

dresden doll wrote:
GoodFood wrote:What does this mean?


It means that people bid conservatively and preferred not to waste interview slots on an uber selective firm.


Or just didn't want to work at a firm that requires crazy hours. You didn't need to "waste" a bid. Since they had open slots, you could have just signed up without bidding.

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 9:48 pm

Emma. wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
GoodFood wrote:What does this mean?


It means that people bid conservatively and preferred not to waste interview slots on an uber selective firm.


Or just didn't want to work at a firm that requires crazy hours. You didn't need to "waste" a bid. Since they had open slots, you could have just signed up without bidding.


That's why I said 'interview slots.' You only have so many slots per day; I'd sooner sign up with another firm.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 9:51 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Emma. wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
GoodFood wrote:What does this mean?


It means that people bid conservatively and preferred not to waste interview slots on an uber selective firm.


Or just didn't want to work at a firm that requires crazy hours. You didn't need to "waste" a bid. Since they had open slots, you could have just signed up without bidding.


That's why I said 'interview slots.' You only have so many slots per day; I'd sooner sign up with another firm.


Yeah, good point. I know for sure there quite a few people that could have got WLRK and had no interest in it.

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 9:52 pm

Emma. wrote:Yeah, good point. I know for sure there quite a few people that could have got WLRK and had no interest in it.


Yeah, that's definitely true. I'd have sucked it up if I'd been a WLRK candidate but those hours are emphatically not for everyone.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed May 02, 2012 10:03 pm

Emma. wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
GoodFood wrote:What does this mean?


It means that people bid conservatively and preferred not to waste interview slots on an uber selective firm.


Or just didn't want to work at a firm that requires crazy hours. You didn't need to "waste" a bid. Since they had open slots, you could have just signed up without bidding.


Exactly. There are like 6 firms that you aren't getting if you are under a 179.5 no matter what.

I would recommend interviewing with Susman anyway for the sheer entertainment value. I would pay to interview with that firm again. Those guys were the most offensive and hilarious people I've met in years.

AspiringAcademic
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby AspiringAcademic » Wed May 02, 2012 10:45 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
I would recommend interviewing with Susman anyway for the sheer entertainment value. I would pay to interview with that firm again. Those guys were the most offensive and hilarious people I've met in years.

That sounds like a storytime opening to me. Do tell?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed May 02, 2012 10:55 pm

AspiringAcademic wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
I would recommend interviewing with Susman anyway for the sheer entertainment value. I would pay to interview with that firm again. Those guys were the most offensive and hilarious people I've met in years.

That sounds like a storytime opening to me. Do tell?


Well, one wore sweats and the other was in an incredibly nice suit. The two played a good cop/ bad cop routine where one would say something offensive to your face, and the other one would reraise you self esteem. I knew they were going to do this before hand, with two separate people telling me from former year "what ever they say, no matter how absurd, don't break eye contact or the interview is over." I never broke eye contact and pushed back a bit, and made fun of them a little. When they stopped messing with me, we talked about why Home Depot was an awesome place to work (even though it wasn't on my resume), they had me give the pitch I was about to give for to a transactional law firm on my schedule, and just messed around. Before I noticed, we were 10 minutes into the next applicant's 20 minute time slot. The good cop said "maybe we should let her in," the bad cop replied "If she doesn't have the <expletive> guts to knock on the door to a job interview loud enough for us to hear it, she doesn't deserve interview time." The good cop replied "Sounds reasonable," and they continued to discuss random crap with me for the next five minutes. The funniest part was when they got into a loud discussion at the door with a recruiter from another firm about the "awesomely low grade" that Helmholtz had given a student. The recruiter replied with a loud laugh "I know, I saw that person's transcript too, that was crazy."

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StrictlyBusiness
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby StrictlyBusiness » Wed May 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Emma. wrote:Yeah, good point. I know for sure there quite a few people that could have got WLRK and had no interest in it.


Am I misunderstanding this? I realize Wachtell is known for insane hours, but doesn't that entail close to double the total compensation of other V10 firms with only 15-20% more hours?

I'm a 0L who knows little about all of this, I guess I just assumed everyone who could get that kind of money would sell their soul to do it. 2-3 years of complete hell to pay off debt seems better than 4-5+ of 85% hell, no?

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Thu May 03, 2012 12:05 am

StrictlyBusiness wrote:
Emma. wrote:Yeah, good point. I know for sure there quite a few people that could have got WLRK and had no interest in it.


Am I misunderstanding this? I realize Wachtell is known for insane hours, but doesn't that entail close to double the total compensation of other V10 firms with only 15-20% more hours?

I'm a 0L who knows little about all of this, I guess I just assumed everyone who could get that kind of money would sell their soul to do it. 2-3 years of complete hell to pay off debt seems better than 4-5+ of 85% hell, no?

It shouldn't be surprising that people have different ideas about the quality of life they want when they choose where they work.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Thu May 03, 2012 12:07 am

StrictlyBusiness wrote:
Emma. wrote:Yeah, good point. I know for sure there quite a few people that could have got WLRK and had no interest in it.


Am I misunderstanding this? I realize Wachtell is known for insane hours, but doesn't that entail close to double the total compensation of other V10 firms with only 15-20% more hours?

I'm a 0L who knows little about all of this, I guess I just assumed everyone who could get that kind of money would sell their soul to do it. 2-3 years of complete hell to pay off debt seems better than 4-5+ of 85% hell, no?


At other firms you might have some really rough weeks, but Wachtell regularly requires 100 hours of their associates. That is 14 hours every single day of the week. At other firms you might end up working 14 hours every day during the week, but you still get some weekends. That "only 15-20% more hours" completely destroys any hope you might have of having any free time. I think WLRK bonuses recently have been around 50% of base, so you are looking at ~$250K for absolutely no life. For some of us, that just isn't worth it.

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StrictlyBusiness
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby StrictlyBusiness » Thu May 03, 2012 12:17 am

Haymarket wrote:It shouldn't be surprising that people have different ideas about the quality of life they want when they choose where they work.


Yeah, good point I suppose. I just looked at it as having no life anyway, why not get paid a bunch more so you can pay off debt more quickly and actually get a life a year or two sooner.

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Thu May 03, 2012 12:19 am

StrictlyBusiness wrote:
Haymarket wrote:It shouldn't be surprising that people have different ideas about the quality of life they want when they choose where they work.


Yeah, good point I suppose. I just looked at it as having no life anyway, why not get paid a bunch more so you can pay off debt more quickly and actually get a life a year or two sooner.


"No life" is relative. If anything, the marginal value of each free hour is even higher when you have so few, so don't think "Well I'm going to be working 90 hours a week anyway, might as well make it 100."


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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Thu May 03, 2012 12:26 am

bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


When you actually get faced with the choice of living the life you want to live, prestige might not matter as much. I didn't even attend my highest vault-ranked callback because I knew I didn't want to live in NYC, and, frankly, sacrificing my quality of life for prestige was something not worthwhile to me. I think I had the same mindset as you as a 0L, but once you realize that you are actually faced with the circumstances you might think differently.

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Thu May 03, 2012 12:29 am

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


[F]rankly, sacrificing my quality of life for prestige was somethingnot worthwhile to me I did when I chose to come to Chicago.


FTFM

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Thu May 03, 2012 12:30 am

TaipeiMort wrote: The funniest part was when they got into a loud discussion at the door with a recruiter from another firm about the "awesomely low grade" that Helmholtz had given a student. The recruiter replied with a loud laugh "I know, I saw that person's transcript too, that was crazy."


If I actually interviewed with Susman, I would be convinced that this was me.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Thu May 03, 2012 12:35 am

Haymarket wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:
bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


[F]rankly, sacrificing my quality of life for prestige was somethingnot worthwhile to me I did when I chose to come to Chicago.


FTFM


When you actually land a job at OCI I think you'll find it was worth it. This week is especially rough for you guys. I think it was my worst one in all of 1L.

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Thu May 03, 2012 12:36 am

Emma. wrote:When you actually land a job at OCI I think you'll find it was worth it. This week is especially rough for you guys. I think it was my worst one in all of 1L.


Well, let's hope Haymarket doesn't get more stressed than this week or he may burn down the school.

bravenewworld
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Re: UChi Kids - The honeymoon is over & taking questions

Postby bravenewworld » Thu May 03, 2012 12:55 am

Is this finals week? Or the week that last graded brief is due?
Also, what's this Susman you speak of (full firm name)?
QoL is real, and I know NYC isn't for everyone, but it's home for me. I actually want to get back here because of that.

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids - The honeymoon is over & taking questions

Postby Xifeng » Thu May 03, 2012 1:04 am

Yeah, the brief is due Monday for the 1Ls. Our finals don't start til the 30th.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids - The honeymoon is over & taking questions

Postby Emma. » Thu May 03, 2012 1:18 am

bravenewworld wrote:Is this finals week? Or the week that last graded brief is due?
Also, what's this Susman you speak of (full firm name)?
QoL is real, and I know NYC isn't for everyone, but it's home for me. I actually want to get back here because of that.


Susman (LinkRemoved)

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 03, 2012 10:38 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
AspiringAcademic wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
I would recommend interviewing with Susman anyway for the sheer entertainment value. I would pay to interview with that firm again. Those guys were the most offensive and hilarious people I've met in years.

That sounds like a storytime opening to me. Do tell?


Well, one wore sweats and the other was in an incredibly nice suit. The two played a good cop/ bad cop routine where one would say something offensive to your face, and the other one would reraise you self esteem. I knew they were going to do this before hand, with two separate people telling me from former year "what ever they say, no matter how absurd, don't break eye contact or the interview is over." I never broke eye contact and pushed back a bit, and made fun of them a little. When they stopped messing with me, we talked about why Home Depot was an awesome place to work (even though it wasn't on my resume), they had me give the pitch I was about to give for to a transactional law firm on my schedule, and just messed around. Before I noticed, we were 10 minutes into the next applicant's 20 minute time slot. The good cop said "maybe we should let her in," the bad cop replied "If she doesn't have the <expletive> guts to knock on the door to a job interview loud enough for us to hear it, she doesn't deserve interview time." The good cop replied "Sounds reasonable," and they continued to discuss random crap with me for the next five minutes. The funniest part was when they got into a loud discussion at the door with a recruiter from another firm about the "awesomely low grade" that Helmholtz had given a student. The recruiter replied with a loud laugh "I know, I saw that person's transcript too, that was crazy."


This is hilarious. I want to hear more of these, if you've got them!




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