UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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TaipeiMort
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue May 01, 2012 4:05 pm

Haymarket wrote:
Mista Bojangles wrote:Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?


First, I don't think this is a correct use of the word irony. Second, I think you're misunderstanding the type of people attracted to/created by law school in general.


Most people are at their worst 1L year at any school, and revert back to being themselves by 3L year. I think Chicago being small and tightly confined, and everyone living in the same small boring community, just makes negativity more visible and contagious. Dean Gardner may have the hardest job in the U.S. outside of ice road trucking or Alaskan deep sea fishing.

GoodFood
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby GoodFood » Tue May 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Haymarket wrote:
Mista Bojangles wrote:Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?


First, I don't think this is a correct use of the word irony. Second, I think you're misunderstanding the type of people attracted to/created by law school in general.


Enlighten us.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Tue May 01, 2012 4:14 pm

lawp389 wrote:Do any Chicago law students live at the Windermere House apartments? The building seems conveniently located, both to the law school and public transportation (within Hyde Park and to downtown), but what would the drawbacks be?


A friend of mine has lived there for both 1L and 2L years. The studios are really large (I haven't seen any of the larger apartments) and the location is pretty great. I I think the only drawback is the building isn't as modern as some of the other options.

Mista Bojangles
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Mista Bojangles » Tue May 01, 2012 5:38 pm

GoodFood wrote:
Haymarket wrote:
Mista Bojangles wrote:Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?


First, I don't think this is a correct use of the word irony. Second, I think you're misunderstanding the type of people attracted to/created by law school in general.


Enlighten us.


This. Also, if Chicago indeed does attract cynical assholes, then it would constitute irony for me as an incoming 1L to ask about whether it attracts said assholes. DUCY?
Last edited by Mista Bojangles on Tue May 01, 2012 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Tue May 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Mista Bojangles wrote:
GoodFood wrote:
Haymarket wrote:
Mista Bojangles wrote:Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?


First, I don't think this is a correct use of the word irony. Second, I think you're misunderstanding the type of people attracted to/created by law school in general.


Enlighten us.


This. Also, if Chicago indeed does attracts cynical assholes, then it would constitute irony for me as an incoming 1L to ask about whether it attracts said assholes. DUCY?

Image

USAIRS
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby USAIRS » Tue May 01, 2012 5:47 pm

Haymarket wrote:Image


Anybody want a peanut?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Tue May 01, 2012 6:03 pm

USAIRS wrote:
Haymarket wrote:Image


Anybody want a peanut?


:lol:

EdgarWinter
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed May 02, 2012 2:39 am

In another thread I read some discussion that if one wants to target Chicago as a market during OCI, going to UChicago might not be the best idea because tons of people at UChi want Chicago during OCI and the firms there can only take so many folks from one school. Is this something that has been true in your experience? Does bidding Chicago as opposed to NY or CA or wherever increase one's odds of striking out? Should people bidding in Chicago try to have safeties in other markets? I'm definitely coming to UChicago...it's just that I think I'll love the city so much that I'm already thinking about staying long term. Thanks!

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Helmholtz
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Helmholtz » Wed May 02, 2012 2:52 am

EdgarWinter wrote:In another thread I read some discussion that if one wants to target Chicago as a market during OCI, going to UChicago might not be the best idea because tons of people at UChi want Chicago during OCI and the firms there can only take so many folks from one school. Is this something that has been true in your experience? Does bidding Chicago as opposed to NY or CA or wherever increase one's odds of striking out? Should people bidding in Chicago try to have safeties in other markets? I'm definitely coming to UChicago...it's just that I think I'll love the city so much that I'm already thinking about staying long term. Thanks!


Bidding Chicago from any school increases one's odds of striking out, at least compared to NYC. Chicago is a tough market. I would never feel comfortable about bidding solely on Chicago as a market since your chances essentially boil down to Kirkland or Sidley (considering how large their summer classes are compared to the rest of the firms), which also happen to be the two most prestigious firms in the city, so they usually want to see high grades. (That's an oversimplification, but let's pretend it's pretty much true for our purposes.) If your grades are really good and you're a lock for Kirkland / Sidley, then chances are, you would want to branch out and make a go for Williams & Connolly, Susman, Wachtell, Keker, Kellogg, etc. If your grades are mediocre and give you a decent shot at Kirkland / Sidley, then you should probably hedge your bets with a different market, probably NYC. That way, if OCI goes well, you might have some interesting choices between Kirkland / Sidley or a NYC V10. If OCI goes poorly, then you're probably going to have a better chance picking up a NYC V50 than landing a job in Chicago. If your grades are not great, then you should still bid on some of the less grade-restrictive Chicago firms like Katten, Baker, etc. but definitely resume bomb NYC firms. You might still get something in Chicago, but it's risky considering how small some of the summer classes are.

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ellewoods110
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby ellewoods110 » Wed May 02, 2012 8:52 am

Helmholtz wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:In another thread I read some discussion that if one wants to target Chicago as a market during OCI, going to UChicago might not be the best idea because tons of people at UChi want Chicago during OCI and the firms there can only take so many folks from one school. Is this something that has been true in your experience? Does bidding Chicago as opposed to NY or CA or wherever increase one's odds of striking out? Should people bidding in Chicago try to have safeties in other markets? I'm definitely coming to UChicago...it's just that I think I'll love the city so much that I'm already thinking about staying long term. Thanks!


Bidding Chicago from any school increases one's odds of striking out, at least compared to NYC. Chicago is a tough market. I would never feel comfortable about bidding solely on Chicago as a market since your chances essentially boil down to Kirkland or Sidley (considering how large their summer classes are compared to the rest of the firms), which also happen to be the two most prestigious firms in the city, so they usually want to see high grades. (That's an oversimplification, but let's pretend it's pretty much true for our purposes.) If your grades are really good and you're a lock for Kirkland / Sidley, then chances are, you would want to branch out and make a go for Williams & Connolly, Susman, Wachtell, Keker, Kellogg, etc. If your grades are mediocre and give you a decent shot at Kirkland / Sidley, then you should probably hedge your bets with a different market, probably NYC. That way, if OCI goes well, you might have some interesting choices between Kirkland / Sidley or a NYC V10. If OCI goes poorly, then you're probably going to have a better chance picking up a NYC V50 than landing a job in Chicago. If your grades are not great, then you should still bid on some of the less grade-restrictive Chicago firms like Katten, Baker, etc. but definitely resume bomb NYC firms. You might still get something in Chicago, but it's risky considering how small some of the summer classes are.



I only bid Chicago. I had 23 interviews, and ended up at my top firm, although I was not gunning for Kirkland/Sidley (I knew my median grades weren't quite good enough for that). I didn't have as many callbacks as my friends interviewing in NY, but that could be grade related/not having a very legal job my 1L summer. I still got what I wanted, and was not worried I wouldn't get something in Chicago. It is more likely that you will be interviewing "against" the same group of people, and if they have higher grades than you, you might have to be patient and wait for them to reject callbacks/offers before you get an offer, but if its what you want it is definitely possible.

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bjsesq
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby bjsesq » Wed May 02, 2012 10:47 am

Asked this question about your listserv a few pages back, and I'm asking it about this thread now:


bjsesq wrote:Y people so mad?

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 10:54 am

bjsesq wrote:Asked this question about your listserv a few pages back, and I'm asking it about this thread now:


bjsesq wrote:Y people so mad?


:lol:

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 11:45 am

bjsesq wrote:Asked this question about your listserv a few pages back, and I'm asking it about this thread now:


bjsesq wrote:Y people so mad?


<3

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 11:57 am

Haymarket wrote:Also, American_in_China, you were slightly annoying in our class today. Please never attempt to speak out or be clever when sitting in on a class, even if a professor tries to be friendly. That is not an invitation for comment.


Hold on. Was the dude just answering a question? Because I know professor Levmore likes to get visitors to talk by directing questions at them, in which case it'd be mad awkward to just sit there in stony silence with zero response.

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Dany
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Dany » Wed May 02, 2012 12:03 pm

Emma. wrote:
bjsesq wrote:Asked this question about your listserv a few pages back, and I'm asking it about this thread now:


bjsesq wrote:Y people so mad?

<3

bravenewworld
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby bravenewworld » Wed May 02, 2012 5:00 pm

Do people from Chicago get V10 offers from New York offices? (I mean, do a significant number of people get those?)
It's probably hard to say, but about where do you need to be in the class to get an offer from a place like Davis Polk?

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Wed May 02, 2012 6:03 pm

bravenewworld wrote:Do people from Chicago get V10 offers from New York offices? (I mean, do a significant number of people get those?)
It's probably hard to say, but about where do you need to be in the class to get an offer from a place like Davis Polk?

I'm just guessing, but if a significant amount of people wanted V10 NYC they could probably get it. I would guess that it is probably harder to get Kirkland in Chi than it is to get NYC V10. Quite frankly, a lot of people don't want that.

I have a few friends going to Davis Polk, but I don't really know their grades. They are smart, hard-working people.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 6:15 pm

bravenewworld wrote:Do people from Chicago get V10 offers from New York offices? (I mean, do a significant number of people get those?)
It's probably hard to say, but about where do you need to be in the class to get an offer from a place like Davis Polk?


It's hard to say about either. Plenty of people get offers and go to fancy NY firms, but a lot of the people that would have those opportunities end up at K&E, Skadden & Sidley in Chicago, Munger, Irell, Gibson in CA, etc etc. For a lot of UChi people, NY is seen as a fallback option.

DPW and several other V10 firms gave callbacks to people below median, but to have a really great shot at most of the V10 I think you'd want to be in the top 3rd? There are a lot of moving parts besides just your grades at play though. If you have great pre–law school work experience or an especially winning personality a firm may well be willing to dip below what would otherwise be a GPA floor.

Edit: JGG beat me to this..

bravenewworld
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby bravenewworld » Wed May 02, 2012 7:32 pm

Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 7:50 pm

bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


Why does that surprise you? Plenty of people don't like NYC and refuse to live there.

lawp389
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby lawp389 » Wed May 02, 2012 8:02 pm

On a different topic, would the current students say that a majority of your classmates use commercial outlines and/or hornbooks? Is this something that is recommended? If so, which one(s) are most useful?

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dresden doll
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby dresden doll » Wed May 02, 2012 8:09 pm

lawp389 wrote:On a different topic, would the current students say that a majority of your classmates use commercial outlines and/or hornbooks? Is this something that is recommended? If so, which one(s) are most useful?


Given UChi profs' idiosyncracies, I wouldn't rely on commercial outlines. You're better off going to class, taking notes, and absorbing professor's point of view.

That said, Glannon' hornbook is indispensable, as is the supplement prof Helmholtz recommends to his property students. Note: don't bother with latter if Helmholtz doesn't wind up being your professor.

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knickerbocker
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Wed May 02, 2012 8:12 pm

Fair enough. People prefer different things.
So the consenus is top 1/3 for NY V10? Given the strange grades, how would you even know where you are in the class?
Again, thanks all.

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Wed May 02, 2012 8:33 pm

dresden doll wrote:
bravenewworld wrote:Huh. A callback from Davis Polk from below median? Wow. I thought that didn't even happen at Harvard...
Read through this whole thread and saw that idea that NY is a fallback for UofC people. Don't quite get that: isn't NY the biggest, most lucrative and prestigious (as in, where most of the most prestigious firms are) legal market?
All my questions are asked the spirit of great humility. No one get upset, please...


Why does that surprise you? Plenty of people don't like NYC and refuse to live there.


Most people I know say they would prefer to stay and work in Chicago (and are bidding NYC as a backup market). There are people who want to go to NYC, obviously, but a lot of them self-select to NYU/Columbia.

Certain profs are fine for commercial outlines. One of the Civ Pro I professors had part of her course packet be parts of commercial outlines. But if you tried a commercial outline with Levmore, you would fail. It's professor-based, and if you ask a 2L or a 3L who's had the professor they can tell you about it specifically.

One of the 2Ls/3Ls said that a 179 is top 20%ish. So you probably can't find out exactly, but you'll have a rough idea.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed May 02, 2012 9:20 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Fair enough. People prefer different things.
So the consenus is top 1/3 for NY V10? Given the strange grades, how would you even know where you are in the class?
Again, thanks all.


Top 3rd is probably somewhere around a 178 average.




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