UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:04 pm

cjcregg wrote:
blank403 wrote:I would just like to point out that it is impossible to get a statistic that clearly shows comparative placement power into NYC for NYU vs UChi. You'll never be able to account for self-selection.


I recognize that. I understand that these sorts of statistics will be impossible to find.

I also understand that Chicago students select a list of firms to interview w/ based in part on a estimation that their grades would not disqualify them from getting a job w/ those particular firms. Do Chicago students perceive that their grades are less disqualifying at Chicago firms of the same size and prestige as NY firms?


What is this I don't even..

OCS gives us a list that shows the range of GPAs for students given callbacks from that firm in the last few years. I guess that is what you are referring to. The range is generally pretty broad, and we are explicitly told that you shouldn't count yourself out of interviewing even if your GPA falls outside the range. Looking at firms like Skadden & Sidley, they both gave callbacks for the NY office to students with slightly lower GPAs than for the Chi office. On the other hand, for Paul Hastings this was the reverse. K&E Chi's minimum GPA range was higher than firms like S&C, Simpson Thacher, and Davis Polk in NY.

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skers
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby skers » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:04 pm

Emma. wrote:
cjcregg wrote:
blank403 wrote:I would just like to point out that it is impossible to get a statistic that clearly shows comparative placement power into NYC for NYU vs UChi. You'll never be able to account for self-selection.


I recognize that. I understand that these sorts of statistics will be impossible to find.

I also understand that Chicago students select a list of firms to interview w/ based in part on a estimation that their grades would not disqualify them from getting a job w/ those particular firms. Do Chicago students perceive that their grades are less disqualifying at Chicago firms of the same size and prestige as NY firms?


What is this I don't even..

OCS gives us a list that shows the range of GPAs for students given callbacks from that firm in the last few years. I guess that is what you are referring to. The range is generally pretty broad, and we are explicitly told that you shouldn't count yourself out of interviewing even if your GPA falls outside the range. Looking at firms like Skadden & Sidley, they both gave callbacks for the NY office to students with slightly lower GPAs than for the Chi office. On the other hand, for Paul Hastings this was the reverse. K&E Chi's minimum GPA range was higher than firms like S&C, Simpson Thacher, and Davis Polk in NY.


TYFT Emma.

Cjcregg, I think you're in the dark somewhat in terms of legal employment (which isn't necessarily your fault as most 0L's have little idea what they're getting into, so get as much info. as you can from the great source of experienced posters we have here on TLS).

You have to keep in mind that NYC is the easiest market to crack. Outside of CLS and NYU, you're going to find that kids with lower grades are targeting NYC because they aren't as likely to get jobs in smaller markets like DC, SF/LA or Chicago where grade cutoffs are typically higher. Sure, in the case of NW and U of C there's a boost given in hiring at the Chicago firms, but the 10 or so kids that go to K&E from each school could have likely gone to just about any NYC firm they wanted.

The real measure of placement power would come from comparing offers given at different schools (which is data we don't have) and placement at the top 20 most selective firms as people nabbing W&C, Gibson Dunn, Ropes, ect. would've done just fine in NYC but chose to go elsewhere.

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blank403
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby blank403 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:35 pm

Haymarket wrote:
I hope you're definitely coming to Chicago.


Hahah, thanks. I sent in my deposit a while back.

Who ever said you weren't doing your fair share of recruiting?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:36 pm

blank403 wrote:
Haymarket wrote:I hope you're definitely coming to Chicago.


Hahah, thanks. I sent in my deposit a while back.

Who ever said you weren't doing your fair share of recruiting?


:lol:

Hay is the face of our marketing campaign.

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:29 pm

Xifeng wrote:
blank403 wrote:
Haymarket wrote:I hope you're definitely coming to Chicago.


Hahah, thanks. I sent in my deposit a while back.

Who ever said you weren't doing your fair share of recruiting?


:lol:

Hay is the face of our marketing campaign.

My impeccable ability to judge character is an asset to determining the most desirable future 1Ls. Obviously.

GoodFood
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby GoodFood » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:18 pm

I asked this to someone via PM, and my apologies if it's been asked before, but where would you guys recommend around the $900-$1000/month price range that is still close to the Law School via transportation (presumably for my 2L/3L years)?

And also, since HP seems to be the cheapest/most convenient option during your 1L, is this where most stay? Is this where you guys would recommend a 1L stay? How safe do you feel walking around HP after midnight on a Saturday?

Thanks.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Mad Hatter » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 pm

GoodFood wrote:I asked this to someone via PM, and my apologies if it's been asked before, but where would you guys recommend around the $900-$1000/month price range that is still close to the Law School via transportation (presumably for my 2L/3L years)?

And also, since HP seems to be the cheapest/most convenient option during your 1L, is this where most stay? Is this where you guys would recommend a 1L stay? How safe do you feel walking around HP after midnight on a Saturday?

Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=84243

duckmoney
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:20 pm

GoodFood wrote:I asked this to someone via PM, and my apologies if it's been asked before, but where would you guys recommend around the $900-$1000/month price range that is still close to the Law School via transportation (presumably for my 2L/3L years)?

And also, since HP seems to be the cheapest/most convenient option during your 1L, is this where most stay? Is this where you guys would recommend a 1L stay? How safe do you feel walking around HP after midnight on a Saturday?

Thanks.


Anywhere in Hyde Park has pretty easy access to the law school. There are plenty of places in Hyde Park in that price range for a 1BR, but most 1BRs in other neighborhoods will run $1400+ per month. If you're thinking about taking a roommate, you should be able to find something in that price range in most neighborhoods in the city. South Loop and the Loop have the best public transport options to the law school outside of Hyde Park (mostly the 2 bus, but I think the 4 will get you close enough).

Most 1Ls live in Hyde Park, although its not a requirement. It's nice for 1L because it's where most of the social scene is and it's very convenient and reduces commute time.

Walking around at night depends on where you are exactly and who's travelling. Group of people with multiple men, you're fine. Single girl, bad idea. There are several good options for travelling at night though - safe ride (free university taxi service within Hyde Park), a night shuttle system, and the police will trail you if you're on foot and you call them.

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Flash
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Flash » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:21 pm

GoodFood wrote:I asked this to someone via PM, and my apologies if it's been asked before, but where would you guys recommend around the $900-$1000/month price range that is still close to the Law School via transportation (presumably for my 2L/3L years)?

And also, since HP seems to be the cheapest/most convenient option during your 1L, is this where most stay? Is this where you guys would recommend a 1L stay? How safe do you feel walking around HP after midnight on a Saturday?

Thanks.

Is that 900-1k/month for a 1Br or would you be willing to have a roommate and each pay that much? If you're willing to have a roommate you can live pretty much anywhere in the city for 1800-2k/month. I would recommend River North, New Eastside or Gold Coast. A lot of people will tell you South Loop but South Loop sucks. As long as you have access to the 2 bus you'll be fine.

Yes, most people stay 1L year. I don't live in HP and love it, it's nice to completely get away from everything school related when I go home and unlike living in HP, I actually live in Chicago. I'm never in HP after 4pm so I don't know.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Mad Hatter » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:56 pm

Another housing question: Do you guys know anyone who lives here or here? Each other these is ~$300 cheaper in rent (more when parking/utilities is taken into account) relative to The Regents. Is there a reason these don't seem very popular? Are they full/hard to get?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:01 pm

Mad Hatter wrote:Another housing question: Do you guys know anyone who lives here or here? Each other these is ~$300 cheaper in rent (more when parking/utilities is taken into account) relative to The Regents. Is there a reason these don't seem very popular? Are they full/hard to get?


That's getting a little...shady. Basically, the more sketchy areas of Hyde Park are south and west, and you are in the southeast corner right there. Regents is also right on the 6 bus line which gets you downtown, whereas you'd have to walk a WHILE to get somewhere that could get you there. And it's not as close to a grocery store, etc.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Mad Hatter » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:16 pm

How about this one? It seems like it avoids the pitfalls you mentioned, and remains far cheaper cheap than Regents/Algonquin. I suppose part of my question hinges upon how important the "social scene" at the Regents is for 1Ls; at ASW people made it sound almost like an undergrad dorm. Is it really worth the $200 or so premium over equivalent options (space-wise) in HP?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:38 pm

That one should be fine, you'll also be on the 171 which is nice.

I don't live in Regents, and I don't think it's a necessity. As long as you're not too lazy to go over there sometimes/host people at your place, you'll be fine. It's also kind of nice not seeing law students 24/7. As long as you're not someone prone to locking themselves in their apartment for days on end without seeing people, you'll be fine living in a non-Regents building.

GoodFood
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby GoodFood » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:46 pm

Xifeng wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:Another housing question: Do you guys know anyone who lives here or here? Each other these is ~$300 cheaper in rent (more when parking/utilities is taken into account) relative to The Regents. Is there a reason these don't seem very popular? Are they full/hard to get?


That's getting a little...shady. Basically, the more sketchy areas of Hyde Park are south and west, and you are in the southeast corner right there. Regents is also right on the 6 bus line which gets you downtown, whereas you'd have to walk a WHILE to get somewhere that could get you there. And it's not as close to a grocery store, etc.


Isn't that...where the law school is? lol :lol:

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:05 pm

GoodFood wrote:
Xifeng wrote:
Mad Hatter wrote:Another housing question: Do you guys know anyone who lives here or here? Each other these is ~$300 cheaper in rent (more when parking/utilities is taken into account) relative to The Regents. Is there a reason these don't seem very popular? Are they full/hard to get?


That's getting a little...shady. Basically, the more sketchy areas of Hyde Park are south and west, and you are in the southeast corner right there. Regents is also right on the 6 bus line which gets you downtown, whereas you'd have to walk a WHILE to get somewhere that could get you there. And it's not as close to a grocery store, etc.


Isn't that...where the law school is? lol :lol:


Yeah, but you don't tend to be walking alone late at night by the law school with your laptops/phones. There are shuttles and things for when it gets dark to be cautious.

GoodFood
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby GoodFood » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:29 pm

Xifeng wrote:Yeah, but you don't tend to be walking alone late at night by the law school with your laptops/phones. There are shuttles and things for when it gets dark to be cautious.


Not to dwell on this, but has this ever been an issue for any of your male classmates? I had a friend who went to UChicago for his undergrad and...let's just say...if he survived without it ever being a concern, it shouldn't be an issue for anyone. :lol:

Should I be concerned about walking around in that area with my laptop/iPhone in my backpack after 7pm?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:32 pm

GoodFood wrote:
Xifeng wrote:Yeah, but you don't tend to be walking alone late at night by the law school with your laptops/phones. There are shuttles and things for when it gets dark to be cautious.


Not to dwell on this, but has this ever been an issue for any of your male classmates? I had a friend who went to UChicago for his undergrad and...let's just say...if he survived without it ever being a concern, it shouldn't be an issue for anyone. :lol:

Should I be concerned about walking around in that area with my laptop/iPhone in my backpack after 7pm?


Well, I haven't heard of it being a problem for any law students in general (the random emails seem to be about undergrads), but they also give you a big lecture during orientation about safety.

I've walked around there after 7 PM. There are a lot of those blue light box things, as well as UChicago police wandering around. You can also call the UChicago PD and get them to drive a squad car next to you while you walk, apparently? (obviously that may not be the best every-day idea).

I just wouldn't walk home at like 3 AM.

Lekal
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Lekal » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:15 am

I'm still struggling with the debt question I mentioned a couple of pages back; my decision would be UChicago no-questions-asked if it weren't for the expense. So I thought I'd ask if you guys/anyone you know had experience with large amounts of debt for your law school educations. Do you/they feel more limited in potential future job choices or more stressed about future salaries as a result? Or does Chicago's LRAP/other factors alleviate that? Thanks.

duckmoney
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:58 am

Lekal wrote:I'm still struggling with the debt question I mentioned a couple of pages back; my decision would be UChicago no-questions-asked if it weren't for the expense. So I thought I'd ask if you guys/anyone you know had experience with large amounts of debt for your law school educations. Do you/they feel more limited in potential future job choices or more stressed about future salaries as a result? Or does Chicago's LRAP/other factors alleviate that? Thanks.


Debt is definitely scary. And it is limiting. You have to have either a salary capable of servicing your debt or an LRAP-qualifying job, or you're screwed.

Chicago's LRAP is fantastic for anyone pursuing public interest, but its not a great backup plan for people who strike out. Because it will probably not pay off the interest on your loans, it creates a sort of LRAP trap where you will have almost no hope of paying off the debt if you leave public service.

Is it worth the price anyway? Probably. 160k salary + lots of debt is a lot better than no job and no debt. And the school gives you a very good shot of biglaw if you want it (although some people will still strike out and graduate un or underemployed).

The entirety of law school, debt or not, is an exercise in dealing with uncertainty. It's definitely a gamble. Tuition is the wager; (imperfect) employment data are the odds.

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knickerbocker
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:40 pm

Wait, sorry. I am naive because I'm an 0L, but I thought one of the advantages of UofC over NYU and Columbia was that basically no one struck out due to the much smaller class size. That is, virtually everyone who wanted a Big Law job got one.
From what you wrote, I guess that's not true?
If it isn't, what happens to those people?

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Xifeng
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:46 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Wait, sorry. I am naive because I'm an 0L, but I thought one of the advantages of UofC over NYU and Columbia was that basically no one struck out due to the much smaller class size. That is, virtually everyone who wanted a Big Law job got one.
From what you wrote, I guess that's not true?
If it isn't, what happens to those people?


No school has a 100% success rate. If you look at the employment statistics, no school is at 100%.

At Chicago, we have a great employment %. Not 100%, but great. We haven't had our OCI meeting regarding %s who did OCI & got jobs, etc.

The same thing happens to those people that happens to the people who don't get biglaw jobs at NYU: they look for other jobs and OCS helps them.

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Emma.
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:54 pm

Xifeng wrote:
knickerbocker wrote:Wait, sorry. I am naive because I'm an 0L, but I thought one of the advantages of UofC over NYU and Columbia was that basically no one struck out due to the much smaller class size. That is, virtually everyone who wanted a Big Law job got one.
From what you wrote, I guess that's not true?
If it isn't, what happens to those people?


No school has a 100% success rate. If you look at the employment statistics, no school is at 100%.

At Chicago, we have a great employment %. Not 100%, but great. We haven't had our OCI meeting regarding %s who did OCI & got jobs, etc.

The same thing happens to those people that happens to the people who don't get biglaw jobs at NYU: they look for other jobs and OCS helps them.


Good answer.

The vast majority of our class did really well at OCI last year, but there are no guarantees at any school. If you are well below median and/or poor social skills, landing biglaw can be pretty tough. This is true at Harvard, CLS, NYU, whatever.

Mista Bojangles
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Mista Bojangles » Tue May 01, 2012 1:58 am

Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?

lawp389
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby lawp389 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:47 pm

Do any Chicago law students live at the Windermere House apartments? The building seems conveniently located, both to the law school and public transportation (within Hyde Park and to downtown), but what would the drawbacks be?

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Haymarket
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Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Tue May 01, 2012 3:33 pm

Mista Bojangles wrote:Srs Q, as a 0L who is headed to Chicago (and perhaps only vaguely aware of any irony inherent in my asking this question):

Is it that UChi breeds cynical assholes, or that it has a tendency to attract them in the first place?


First, I don't think this is a correct use of the word irony. Second, I think you're misunderstanding the type of people attracted to/created by law school in general.




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