UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
knickerbocker
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:37 am

Damn. Just 3 out of 30? That's harsh.
Wait, so how is the curve in other 1L classes? About what percentage gets an A-range grade (180 and higher)?

lsatcrazy
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby lsatcrazy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:55 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
knickerbocker wrote:Sorry to keep asking about LRW, but the reason I keep asking is that at the other place I'm considering, NYU, LRW isn't graded.
I thought that about 25% of the class got the equivalent of an A-range grade? Is that not right?


In my LRW section (30 people?) 3 received an A.

Out of curiosity, how do you know this? Is it on your transcript?

User avatar
Xifeng
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:56 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:I hate LRW if only for the fact that it shows up 3 times on your transcript. Therefore, if you do worse in that class than others, it looks bad to people who just scan your resume (even though two of the quarters say "1 credit").


Nooooooo! Depressing. I am not expecting great things from LRW.

This is what it says on your transcript about law school grades, it doesn't say anything else (other than...your actual grades):

Image

It doesn't tell you class distributions or anything. Some professors email out what the distribution is, others don't. I assume Taipei's professor sent out some email about it.

LRW is curved a bit higher, and from what I've heard it's more tightly clustered (so it's harder to do both good and bad).

ETA: edited out the graduating honors info so people don't get confused, PM me if you're super curious?
Last edited by Xifeng on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
knickerbocker
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:04 pm

Woah. What?
So, like, only 5% of people get an A per class? That is CRAZY.

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:09 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Woah. What?
So, like, only 5% of people get an A per class? That is CRAZY.


This is false. Plenty of people get an A in a given class. But very few people consistently get A's across all their class. The people with A averages are very hard to come by.

User avatar
Emma.
Posts: 2401
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:57 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:09 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Woah. What?
So, like, only 5% of people get an A per class? That is CRAZY.


No. That isn't right. That is graduation honors. Per class it is more like 10-15%.

But it doesn't really matter, since your grades don't get stacked up against other schools in the same direct way. No one is looking at a 179 average transcript and comparing it with an A- average transcript from another school and thinking that the UChi kid is a weaker student. Everyone knows that grades above 178 are strong grades and treats them as such, regardless of what the translation chart on your transcript says.

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:10 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Sorry to keep asking about LRW, but the reason I keep asking is that at the other place I'm considering, NYU, LRW isn't graded.
I thought that about 25% of the class got the equivalent of an A-range grade? Is that not right?


I don't mind the graded LRW. It actually makes you try to become good at legal writing. It is more stressful during the year, but that's part of the reason that UChicago has a reputation for having much stronger writers than peer schools.

User avatar
Xifeng
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:22 pm

duckmoney wrote:
knickerbocker wrote:Woah. What?
So, like, only 5% of people get an A per class? That is CRAZY.


This is false. Plenty of people get an A in a given class. But very few people consistently get A's across all their class. The people with A averages are very hard to come by.


Yeah, that was just to give you an idea of what the #s are. The graduating honors are completely different/crazy, since people tend towards the medians. That's NOT the per class distribution.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:26 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:I hate LRW if only for the fact that it shows up 3 times on your transcript. Therefore, if you do worse in that class than others, it looks bad to people who just scan your resume (even though two of the quarters say "1 credit").

FUCK

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:38 pm

Another thing that pushes people toward the median is the fact that many 1L classes are taught by 2 professors who give two separate exams, which give you more opportunities for inconsistency. Especially because some professors have quirky grading styles that click with certain people and not others.

American_in_China
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:19 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby American_in_China » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:14 am

Heading out to campus to visit in a few minutes. Anything interesting going on during lunch today?

If any TLSers can figure out who I am walking around, come say hi. You guys have no idea how informative this thread has been for me. I'll be around on campus till 4.

PS: Anyone know a good authentic Chinese restaurant? Now that I'm in a city that actually HAS chinese people I'm hoping to get some chinese comfort food. Sichuan and hotpot preferred.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:11 am

American_in_China wrote:Heading out to campus to visit in a few minutes. Anything interesting going on during lunch today?

There are a couple of lunch talks going on. Federalist Society is bringing a UT professor to talk about Constitutional law, and ACS is bringing someone to talk about South Africa or something. I recommend the former.

User avatar
Emma.
Posts: 2401
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:57 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Emma. » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:20 am

American_in_China wrote:Heading out to campus to visit in a few minutes. Anything interesting going on during lunch today?

If any TLSers can figure out who I am walking around, come say hi. You guys have no idea how informative this thread has been for me. I'll be around on campus till 4.

PS: Anyone know a good authentic Chinese restaurant? Now that I'm in a city that actually HAS chinese people I'm hoping to get some chinese comfort food. Sichuan and hotpot preferred.


Not around Campus. But if you are driving, head up to Chinatown.

User avatar
knickerbocker
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:43 pm

Wait, 10-15% A-range grades per class is still really low and scary. At NYU, it's 31% (!) (Source for NYU: --LinkRemoved--)
I understand that your ranking won't change, but I feel like getting A's feels a whole lot better...

User avatar
Dany
Posts: 11580
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Dany » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:03 pm

It's not 10-15% As in every class. In one of my classes the distribution was: 25% - A, 70% - B, 5% - C.

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby duckmoney » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:29 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Wait, 10-15% A-range grades per class is still really low and scary. At NYU, it's 31% (!) (Source for NYU: --LinkRemoved--)
I understand that your ranking won't change, but I feel like getting A's feels a whole lot better...


Considering that it doesn't even show up as an A, but rather a completely arbitrary 3 digit number on a completely arbitrary scale with a completely arbitrary curve, this probably doesn't matter that much

User avatar
Doorkeeper
Posts: 4872
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:54 pm

Dany wrote:It's not 10-15% As in every class. In one of my classes the distribution was: 25% - A, 70% - B, 5% - C.

Was that a 1L elective class, or one of the core requirements? I thought it was like 10% As for the core classes, and then it expands a bit for some of the electives during the next two years?

User avatar
Xifeng
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:54 pm

duckmoney wrote:
knickerbocker wrote:Wait, 10-15% A-range grades per class is still really low and scary. At NYU, it's 31% (!) (Source for NYU: --LinkRemoved--)
I understand that your ranking won't change, but I feel like getting A's feels a whole lot better...


Considering that it doesn't even show up as an A, but rather a completely arbitrary 3 digit number on a completely arbitrary scale with a completely arbitrary curve, this probably doesn't matter that much


This. Plus, it really doesn't matter what "feels better" when you're on a curve. NU has huge grade inflation, so I bet it doesn't "feel as good" to get an A-.

Also, you will find 0 authentic Chinese restaurants in Hyde Park. There's good Sichuan food in Chinatown (I haven't been to any hot pot places there yet), but that's more of an adventure (though not too far).

The distribution Dany is referring to is Elements.

User avatar
Dany
Posts: 11580
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Dany » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:07 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Dany wrote:It's not 10-15% As in every class. In one of my classes the distribution was: 25% - A, 70% - B, 5% - C.

Was that a 1L elective class, or one of the core requirements? I thought it was like 10% As for the core classes, and then it expands a bit for some of the electives during the next two years?

Core class. We don't have elective grades yet.

User avatar
knickerbocker
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby knickerbocker » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:10 pm

Oh, so you're all saying that it doesn't matter that NYU has a far gentler curve than Chicago? We're talking 10% As vs. 31% As. That's huge.
It's hard for me to believe that employers take that into account fully. That is, they don't consider a B-range Chicago grade to be equal to an A- at NYU, although it may well be the same.
What percent of a 1L class at Chicago gets a C-range grade or below (173 or below)?
Even if employers do take all this into account, I feel like it would crush my spirit to get all Bs.

User avatar
Xifeng
Posts: 2562
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Xifeng » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:23 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Oh, so you're all saying that it doesn't matter that NYU has a far gentler curve than Chicago? We're talking 10% As vs. 31% As. That's huge.
It's hard for me to believe that employers take that into account fully. That is, they don't consider a B-range Chicago grade to be equal to an A- at NYU, although it may well be the same.
What percent of a 1L class at Chicago gets a C-range grade or below (173 or below)?
Even if employers do take all this into account, I feel like it would crush my spirit to get all Bs.


They don't really know what As are and Bs are. They have that tiny little thing about "ranges," and that's it. Employers don't have huge amounts of information, and the stuff they do know is based on past years dealing with Chicago students. They aren't like, "well, I'm going to convert this to As and Bs! And by god, this person has fewer As than this NYU grad! WE ARE TAKING THE NYU GRAD FOR SURE"

There's some weird thing about the % of sub-173s being about equal to the 182+ grades? Maybe? I'm not sure if that's accurate. But something like that.

And again, you will look at your grades and see #s. You don't think of it as As or Bs. Just weird LSAT-like numbers (you'll feel happier if you pretend they're LSAT scores)

User avatar
Dany
Posts: 11580
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Dany » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Also, when choosing between schools, grading systems* aren't really that important. Employment prospects are important. How you "feel" about getting a 179 at UChicago versus an A- at NYU doesn't really affect job prospects at the end of the day. Employers don't seem to have a problem with our grades, so I don't either.

*Unless you can go somewhere with a magical system like Yale's or something.

User avatar
Haymarket
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:22 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Oh, so you're all saying that it doesn't matter that NYU has a far gentler curve than Chicago? We're talking 10% As vs. 31% As. That's huge.
It's hard for me to believe that employers take that into account fully. That is, they don't consider a B-range Chicago grade to be equal to an A- at NYU, although it may well be the same.
What percent of a 1L class at Chicago gets a C-range grade or below (173 or below)?
Even if employers do take all this into account, I feel like it would crush my spirit to get all Bs.


Chicago* is not the place to go if you need constant validation from your professors or your report card to maintain your self-esteem. We do not give everyone trophies just for playing or gold stars.

Also, isn't it obvious that an employer compares student grades intra-school and not inter-school? The latter makes zero sense is their goal is to hire the best candidates and not the best report cards.

*You can also read this as law school in general.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:28 pm

knickerbocker wrote:It's hard for me to believe that employers take that into account fully. That is, they don't consider a B-range Chicago grade to be equal to an A- at NYU, although it may well be the same.

Well, you would know better than us.

User avatar
Haymarket
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: UChi Kids Taking Questions

Postby Haymarket » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:30 pm

Also, American_in_China, you were slightly annoying in our class today. Please never attempt to speak out or be clever when sitting in on a class, even if a professor tries to be friendly. That is not an invitation for comment.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests