UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:35 pm

LSRAT wrote:Hi folks! Would y'all mind sharing what final reason made you decide to commit? Or how you decided Chicago was for you?


I love the small size and the accessibility of the faculty. I also love Chicago as a city and it has a great cost of living considering that it's world-class in terms of restaurants, museums, architecture, etc. Plus I have friends who went there who loved it. And they gave me a good amount of money which didn't hurt :)

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:55 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:For someone interested in all things "international law" (whether domestic or abroad, PI or Big Law): UChi or UPenn, and why? Just from their websites, it seems like Penn emphasizes international offerings and engagement more than Chicago, but I don't know if this is actually indicative of anything more than each school's branding/marketing strategy.


I actually don't know that much about Penn's programs!

I do know that here at UChi we have profs doing really interesting work in international and comparative law, we have practitioners and lecturers who visit to teach practice-oriented classes (like International Arbitration, Corporate Governance in Emerging Markets, Immigration Policy, Cross-Border Transactions, just to name a few at random).

We also have an International Human Rights clinic and a World Bank Practicum, which let you do actual work in international law. We also have spring break international law immersion trips, which take advantage of our long spring break (and the fact that 2Ls and 3Ls finish finals before spring break, making it a real break!)

In addition to those opportunities at the law school, you can take classes at UChicago proper (including language classes) and have the credits count towards your JD.

Finally, the way our schedule is structured gives you the opportunity to do 3, possibly even 4 summer internships. A lot of the people in my class are doing the big firm SA thing AND a full-length PI internship this summer. For example, one of my classmates is spending her summer at Davis Polk and DOJ. Some of my classmates who didn't do OCI were able to do two summer internships during their 1L summer, too.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:06 pm

Oh, I forgot about Jessup International Moot Court, the China Law Society, and our other active international law student orgs. Either way, I think we have a lot going for us when it comes to international law. :)

Hope that helps!

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby KMart » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:53 pm

landshoes wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:For someone interested in all things "international law" (whether domestic or abroad, PI or Big Law): UChi or UPenn, and why? Just from their websites, it seems like Penn emphasizes international offerings and engagement more than Chicago, but I don't know if this is actually indicative of anything more than each school's branding/marketing strategy.


I actually don't know that much about Penn's programs!

I do know that here at UChi we have profs doing really interesting work in international and comparative law, we have practitioners and lecturers who visit to teach practice-oriented classes (like International Arbitration, Corporate Governance in Emerging Markets, Immigration Policy, Cross-Border Transactions, just to name a few at random).

We also have an International Human Rights clinic and a World Bank Practicum, which let you do actual work in international law. We also have spring break international law immersion trips, which take advantage of our long spring break (and the fact that 2Ls and 3Ls finish finals before spring break, making it a real break!)

In addition to those opportunities at the law school, you can take classes at UChicago proper (including language classes) and have the credits count towards your JD.

Finally, the way our schedule is structured gives you the opportunity to do 3, possibly even 4 summer internships. A lot of the people in my class are doing the big firm SA thing AND a full-length PI internship this summer. For example, one of my classmates is spending her summer at Davis Polk and DOJ. Some of my classmates who didn't do OCI were able to do two summer internships during their 1L summer, too.

don't forget about a good international law journal

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:16 pm

KMart wrote:
landshoes wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:For someone interested in all things "international law" (whether domestic or abroad, PI or Big Law): UChi or UPenn, and why? Just from their websites, it seems like Penn emphasizes international offerings and engagement more than Chicago, but I don't know if this is actually indicative of anything more than each school's branding/marketing strategy.


I actually don't know that much about Penn's programs!

I do know that here at UChi we have profs doing really interesting work in international and comparative law, we have practitioners and lecturers who visit to teach practice-oriented classes (like International Arbitration, Corporate Governance in Emerging Markets, Immigration Policy, Cross-Border Transactions, just to name a few at random).

We also have an International Human Rights clinic and a World Bank Practicum, which let you do actual work in international law. We also have spring break international law immersion trips, which take advantage of our long spring break (and the fact that 2Ls and 3Ls finish finals before spring break, making it a real break!)

In addition to those opportunities at the law school, you can take classes at UChicago proper (including language classes) and have the credits count towards your JD.

Finally, the way our schedule is structured gives you the opportunity to do 3, possibly even 4 summer internships. A lot of the people in my class are doing the big firm SA thing AND a full-length PI internship this summer. For example, one of my classmates is spending her summer at Davis Polk and DOJ. Some of my classmates who didn't do OCI were able to do two summer internships during their 1L summer, too.

don't forget about a good international law journal


True true

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:26 pm

daedalus2309 wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Why is that? Both have an estimated COA of about 90k a year.


That just doesn't reflect reality. Compare rent in the two cities in one of those CoL calculators out there.


Yup. I paid $450/mo splitting 1BR rent with my gf for 2/3 years of law school. The studio Columbia put me in was $2300/mo with no bathroom.

elterrible78 wrote:When did you crawl out from under your rock to post again in here?


One day I did not work past 10pm and I decided to see what being a person was like. Unfortunately, made the mistake of coming to TLS.

In seriousness, I heard the news about UT > GULC and wanted to see the reactions on here. They did not disappoint.

dasq5511 wrote:1) Anyone willing to share the things they don't like about UChi?


I did not like that it was a law school

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:28 pm

LSRAT wrote:Hi folks! Would y'all mind sharing what final reason made you decide to commit? Or how you decided Chicago was for you?


The main difference maker for me (outside of money, which should ultimately be everyone-non-wealthy's no. 1 [there is a reason everyone who is working as a lawyer and paying off loans says this]) and something that felt very unique after visiting a few schools, before deciding to attend:

People actually give a shit about learning at UofC, and both students and teachers are actually engaged in lectures (for the most part)

After attending:

This has pros and cons

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby skers » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:18 am

call-me-bubbles wrote:For someone interested in all things "international law" (whether domestic or abroad, PI or Big Law): UChi or UPenn, and why? Just from their websites, it seems like Penn emphasizes international offerings and engagement more than Chicago, but I don't know if this is actually indicative of anything more than each school's branding/marketing strategy.


International law, to the extent it's even a thing, really only exists in law school classrooms. Cross-border matters at big law firms aren't really "international law" and, more importantly, suck. This is all to say, don't make a law school decision based on this.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Anon.y.mousse. » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:27 am

beepboopbeep wrote:
LSRAT wrote:Hi folks! Would y'all mind sharing what final reason made you decide to commit? Or how you decided Chicago was for you?


The main difference maker for me (outside of money, which should ultimately be everyone-non-wealthy's no. 1 [there is a reason everyone who is working as a lawyer and paying off loans says this]) and something that felt very unique after visiting a few schools, before deciding to attend:

People actually give a shit about learning at UofC, and both students and teachers are actually engaged in lectures (for the most part)

After attending:

This has pros and cons


Right now I have a 150k scholarship to Mich and a 90k scholarship to Chicago. Funding law school on my own. Goals are federal clerkship and Fed Honors/BigFed in some way shape or form (currently work for DOJ now and office supervisors have expressly told me they would love to have me back, but I know that's a really uncertain thing and not relying on it). Submitted a scholarship reconsideration form to Chicago, but realistically wouldn't expect more than maybe a 15k bump based on LSN data. Do you think Chicago is worth 60k more than Mich? Most of the attorneys I work with say no but none of them attended so it'd be worth it to hear a student's perspective.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby WheninLaw » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:22 am

Anon.y.mousse. wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
LSRAT wrote:Hi folks! Would y'all mind sharing what final reason made you decide to commit? Or how you decided Chicago was for you?


The main difference maker for me (outside of money, which should ultimately be everyone-non-wealthy's no. 1 [there is a reason everyone who is working as a lawyer and paying off loans says this]) and something that felt very unique after visiting a few schools, before deciding to attend:

People actually give a shit about learning at UofC, and both students and teachers are actually engaged in lectures (for the most part)

After attending:

This has pros and cons


Right now I have a 150k scholarship to Mich and a 90k scholarship to Chicago. Funding law school on my own. Goals are federal clerkship and Fed Honors/BigFed in some way shape or form (currently work for DOJ now and office supervisors have expressly told me they would love to have me back, but I know that's a really uncertain thing and not relying on it). Submitted a scholarship reconsideration form to Chicago, but realistically wouldn't expect more than maybe a 15k bump based on LSN data. Do you think Chicago is worth 60k more than Mich? Most of the attorneys I work with say no but none of them attended so it'd be worth it to hear a student's perspective.


I do not think Chicago is worth 60k more. Maybe 30, at most?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:41 pm

I think it would be worth that much more, but I'm really risk averse about job placement. I also would hate to live in Ann Arbor for three years, but that's up to you.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby call-me-bubbles » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:35 am

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Last edited by call-me-bubbles on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:08 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:How much debt did you guys take on/are you taking on to attend Chicago, and what do you personally feel is the maximum amount of loans that Chicago is worth? I know this is a very subjective thing, dependent on many factors, and the less debt anywhere, the better -- but I still wanted to survey this thread. Currently offered $30,000, so worst-case scenario I won't be paying sticker (though still close to it...), but I'm waiting to hear back about my reconsideration request, which will hopefully bump that up a bit. My COA will be "limited" to tuition and academic/student fees, as my spouse will be working to support us while I'm in school.


I had 90k in scholarship

Currently working on 150k-ish debt (135k-ish in unsubsidized loans + 1-3 years of accrued interest)

idk man. i think it's best to think about "how much debt am I ok with taking on for law school" rather than "how much am I taking on for X school" -- the latter makes it really easy to justify along the lines of "yea but it's chicago/HLS/etc" to end up further in the hole than you wanted to be.

I absolutely would not want to be in my current position -- 1st year associate, west coast biglaw -- with any more debt than I have. Obviously I'd rather have even less, but as it stands, maaaybe I can get this paid off in three years. Lots of people don't last more than 2-3 years in biglaw and, like, statistically-speaking I probably won't either, so I'd really prefer to leave this chapter debt-free if possible. Would really recommend others take the same approach or even take it further -- some of the happiest people I know with their law school decisions are those that took a step down in preftige to graduate debt-free or close to it.

I would probably take Mich at 150k vs 90k Chicago. I would've made the opposite decision pre-law-school. I would've been wrong (for me).

I bet Ann Arbor rent is pretty good too

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Jaqen » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:58 am

beepboopbeep wrote:i think it's best to think about "how much debt am I ok with taking on for law school" rather than "how much am I taking on for X school"


Yep.

If you have $15k/year at Chicago then you probably have better scholarships at slightly lower ranked schools. Give them a second look and a third and a fourth, imo. Debt sucks and sticker is so high that even $15k/year only goes so far. But that's my advice regardless of the schools involved.

Best of luck with the reconsideration request and congratulations on your admission to U Chi. It's a great school. Just far too expensive - like all law schools.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby call-me-bubbles » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:11 pm

.
Last edited by call-me-bubbles on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby beepboopbeep » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:37 pm

Jaqen wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:i think it's best to think about "how much debt am I ok with taking on for law school" rather than "how much am I taking on for X school"


Yep.

If you have $15k/year at Chicago then you probably have better scholarships at slightly lower ranked schools. Give them a second look and a third and a fourth, imo. Debt sucks and sticker is so high that even $15k/year only goes so far. But that's my advice regardless of the schools involved.

Best of luck with the reconsideration request and congratulations on your admission to U Chi. It's a great school. Just far too expensive - like all law schools.


Caveat being that this isn't always true, especially if you apply late, so don't feel like a failure if you're sitting on low/medium money at UChi/Columbia/NYU/etc but didn't get any of these full scholarship offers -- I didn't. I only got in at UChi/Columbia/NYU, period - nowhere else in the T14, and I think I applied everywhere but Georgetown. That said, if this is you - probably sit out a cycle and get a full ride instead.

Agreed with everything else jaqen says (here, and in general)

call-me-bubbles wrote:Yet another question, sorry: Could you guys list the "perimeters" outside of which you'd say it's generally considered unsafe/best to avoid living in Hyde Park? In the past, posters have advised not living N/S/E/W of specific streets, but some of those recommendations are several years old, so I don't know if things have changed (for better or worse) in the immediate area. Thanks!


I left the neighborhood a little under a year ago, but generally the perimeters that were true from like 2007-2012 were: 60th street on the south, cottage grove to the west, and 47th to the north. That's basically the same now except for south: you can probably get away with going down to 63rd now. I wouldn't, but that's pretty affected by having been at UofC when I was there (when a grad student was killed in a drive-by on Ellis and 61st). You still don't want to live west of cottage, unless that's changed very recently. And north of 47th was never really that unsafe, it's just inconvenient public-transit-wise.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:55 pm

I would probably say split the difference and rule out anything south of 62 if you don't know the neighborhood. There are some really nice places for cheap in between 61 and 62. If you're worried about Chicago though it's probably best to live in your more typical Hyde park buildings like regents shore land or Del prado for your first year.

E. Also anything east of lake shore drive.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:23 pm

HuntedUnicorn wrote:I would probably say split the difference and rule out anything south of 62 if you don't know the neighborhood. There are some really nice places for cheap in between 61 and 62. If you're worried about Chicago though it's probably best to live in your more typical Hyde park buildings like regents shore land or Del prado for your first year.

E. Also anything east of lake shore drive.


I don't think there is anything east of Lake Shore Drive but I might be reading the map wrong. Do you mean like the buildings on Lake Shore, south of Regents?

That area is pretty chill at night but it is a little quieter than other areas so I would probably not walk around by myself as much as I would in the more central areas.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:24 pm

landshoes wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:I would probably say split the difference and rule out anything south of 62 if you don't know the neighborhood. There are some really nice places for cheap in between 61 and 62. If you're worried about Chicago though it's probably best to live in your more typical Hyde park buildings like regents shore land or Del prado for your first year.

E. Also anything east of lake shore drive.


I don't think there is anything east of Lake Shore Drive but I might be reading the map wrong. Do you mean like the buildings on Lake Shore, south of Regents?

That area is pretty chill at night but it is a little quieter than other areas so I would probably not walk around by myself as much as I would in the more central areas.


was a joke. I don't think there's an eastern bound to where I'd live.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby armc808 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:55 pm

HuntedUnicorn wrote:E. Also anything east of lake shore drive.

:lol:

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby KMart » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:29 pm

landshoes wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:I would probably say split the difference and rule out anything south of 62 if you don't know the neighborhood. There are some really nice places for cheap in between 61 and 62. If you're worried about Chicago though it's probably best to live in your more typical Hyde park buildings like regents shore land or Del prado for your first year.

E. Also anything east of lake shore drive.


I don't think there is anything east of Lake Shore Drive but I might be reading the map wrong. Do you mean like the buildings on Lake Shore, south of Regents?

That area is pretty chill at night but it is a little quieter than other areas so I would probably not walk around by myself as much as I would in the more central areas.

this was the joke, lol

i agree with the above posters about 47th/cottage grove/LSD/62nd

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby landshoes » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:44 pm

ha ha, thanks. you can tell I'm directionally challenged ;)

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby elterrible78 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:06 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
Jaqen wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:i think it's best to think about "how much debt am I ok with taking on for law school" rather than "how much am I taking on for X school"


Yep.

If you have $15k/year at Chicago then you probably have better scholarships at slightly lower ranked schools. Give them a second look and a third and a fourth, imo. Debt sucks and sticker is so high that even $15k/year only goes so far. But that's my advice regardless of the schools involved.

Best of luck with the reconsideration request and congratulations on your admission to U Chi. It's a great school. Just far too expensive - like all law schools.


Caveat being that this isn't always true, especially if you apply late, so don't feel like a failure if you're sitting on low/medium money at UChi/Columbia/NYU/etc but didn't get any of these full scholarship offers -- I didn't. I only got in at UChi/Columbia/NYU, period - nowhere else in the T14, and I think I applied everywhere but Georgetown. That said, if this is you - probably sit out a cycle and get a full ride instead.

Agreed with everything else jaqen says (here, and in general)

call-me-bubbles wrote:Yet another question, sorry: Could you guys list the "perimeters" outside of which you'd say it's generally considered unsafe/best to avoid living in Hyde Park? In the past, posters have advised not living N/S/E/W of specific streets, but some of those recommendations are several years old, so I don't know if things have changed (for better or worse) in the immediate area. Thanks!


I left the neighborhood a little under a year ago, but generally the perimeters that were true from like 2007-2012 were: 60th street on the south, cottage grove to the west, and 47th to the north. That's basically the same now except for south: you can probably get away with going down to 63rd now. I wouldn't, but that's pretty affected by having been at UofC when I was there (when a grad student was killed in a drive-by on Ellis and 61st). You still don't want to live west of cottage, unless that's changed very recently. And north of 47th was never really that unsafe, it's just inconvenient public-transit-wise.


I lived just south of 63rd on Kimbark during my last year, and I was fine. Definitely acknowledge that it's not for everyone, though, so just know yourself.

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby daedalus2309 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:46 pm

how intense is the intensive trial advocacy workshop in september? can I have people visit me from out of town during the first week or are my nights going to be fucked up?

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Re: UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions

Postby Smc1994 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:43 am

Can anyone speak to the quality of the amenities at shoreland versus vue or regents? Basically, would you have to schlep up to the campus gym to get in a lift if you were living in these apartments?




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