Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

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disciullo
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Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby disciullo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:11 am

Greetings from Philadelphia and the Earle Mack School of Law at Drexel University!

My name is Issa DiSciullo, the Assistant Dean of Admissions. I hope this post finds you well and gearing up for the law school search and application process.

I have joined the top law schools online community to share any information I can about Drexel and the process in general, so please don't hesitate to send questions my way.

If you're interested in seeing what our students are saying, please check out our student blogs at:

--LinkRemoved--

Looking forward to hearing from you!

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:35 am

When will the school be fully accredited? Where do you expect it to rank once it is? Do you have fully employment stats available for the first classes, by region if possible? I was recommending some classmates to look into Drexel, any information would be helpful. TIA.

disciullo
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby disciullo » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:18 am

TIA...thanks for your question and your patience. I have been traveling and haven't had the opportunity to get back on this site until today.

The law school is up for full accreditation in the summer of 2011 - right on track! We just had the final ABA site visit this past October before the accreditation committee presents us to the board. All went very well and the committee had great things to say about our students, faculty and curriculum.

As for the rankings, that's a bit tougher to predict. I will say that no new law school has ever ranked higher than the 90's during its first year of being ranked. Given our program, the success of our graduates and our competitive admissions standards, we expect to fall within that range - but again, it will be tough to tell since the rankings are determined by a variety of different factors.

As for employment, it's a bit too early to compile the numbers for the 2010 Class...I'll make sure to post those numbers as soon as I have them. In the meantime, here are the numbers for the Class of 2009...

Employment Statistics

The Earle Mack School of Law is proud of our inaugural class and the jobs that they have obtained as our first graduating class. Here are statistics on the Inaugural Class of 2009:

•93% of the Class of 2009 are employed in a wide variety of positions that that include practicing law, serving in the federal government, managing businesses, serving in law enforcement and working in risk management.
•80% of the Class of 2009 are working in law-intensive jobs that include clerking for federal and state judges, practicing in law firms of every size, serving in district attorney, public defender and other government offices, and practicing with both corporations and nonprofit organizations. See a list of all the places where these graduates are working by clicking here.
•And five graduates are pursuing advanced LLM degrees at institutions including NYU Law, Georgetown Law, and Dalhousie Law (in Canada).
(92% of the class reporting)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Employment By Type
•Law Firm Practice: 42.67%
•Judicial Clerkships: 12.67%
•Business/Industry: 11.33%
•Government: 8.67%
•Public Interest: 4%
•Military: 1.3%
•LLM: 3.3%
•Academic: 2%
•Average starting salary (62 students reporting) = $70,360

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Employment by Geography
•Mid-Atlantic States (PA, NJ, NY): 73.3 %
•South-Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV): 5.3 %
•New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT): 1.3%
•International: 1.3 %
•South East Central (AL, KY, MS, TN): 0.67 %
•Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA): 0.67 %
•North West Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD): 0 %
•North East Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI): 0 %
•South West Central (AR, LA, OK, TX): 0 %
•Mountain (AZ, ID, CO, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY): 0 %

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:31 am

How do you justify releasing salary statistics that include such a small (and very likely non-random) percentage of the class? You must realize this isn't an accurate reflection of the class 2009 graduates. I realize there could be trouble collecting data, but if that's the case why release anything at all? Your number paints a picture of about half the class earning at least $70,000 (a respectable salary) when in actuality we can't only confidently say about 1/5th the class makes that.

Tell me how that's not dishonest.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:41 am

D. H2Oman wrote:How do you justify releasing salary statistics that include such a small (and very likely non-random) percentage of the class? You must realize this isn't an accurate reflection of the class 2009 graduates. I realize there could be trouble collecting data, but if that's the case why release anything at all? Your number paints a picture of about half the class earning at least $70,000 (a respectable salary) when in actuality we can't only confidently say about 1/5th 1/10th the class makes that.

Tell me how that's not dishonest. straight up lying



Oh I just realized you're using average and not median. Let me correct my post.

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beachbum
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby beachbum » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:52 am

What's the average debt of a Drexel grad? How is your placement into the NLJ250? What are you doing to assist your grads in obtaining law firm/PI jobs?

H2Oman was a little harsh, but his point rings true. Your salary statistics are cause for concern.

disciullo
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby disciullo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:00 am

I can appreciate the concern regarding the employment statistics. At Drexel, we do our best to give you all the information we have available. If we didn't represent that we only have a limited number of salary data that would be dishonest. According to the NALP data for 2009, even NALP lists an adjusted median income based on the fact that income data reporting is a challenge for all schools.

As for average debt, we don't give out a number as each student's aid is done differently. You are more than welcome to contact our financial aid counselor and she can discuss those issues with you individually.

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nealric
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby nealric » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:00 pm

First, thank you for taking the time to answer questions and address concerns.


I can appreciate the concern regarding the employment statistics. At Drexel, we do our best to give you all the information we have available. If we didn't represent that we only have a limited number of salary data that would be dishonest.



Perhaps it's not deliberately dishonest, but it's certainly misleading. Your data would lead a prospective student to expect a salary of $70,000 upon graduation, when it is very likely that only a small portion of your graduates actually make that salary to start. Were there no debt issues to be concerned with, this would not be a big deal. However, a 70,000 salary is pretty much the bare minimum to make payments under a 10-year payment plan with a full debt load. Even that salary would require living a poverty-line standard of living.

What is Drexel's objection to complying with the law school transparency project?

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

(Note: I am completely unaffiliated with them, but I support the cause)

ehh2109
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby ehh2109 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:37 am

.
Last edited by ehh2109 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:01 am

Folks, let's try not be too harsh, even when raising valid concerns. TLS should always be appreciative of admissions officials taking time here to answering questions. Thanks.

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coolymx
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby coolymx » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:53 am

vanwinkle wrote:Folks, let's try not be too harsh, even when raising valid concerns. TLS should always be appreciative of admissions officials taking time here to answering questions. Thanks.


agreed. Though I'm not applying to Drexel, I think it has a very bright future, and it's very nice to see an admission staff stepping up and answering questions. Thanks to the OP and good luck with everything.


P.S. Personally I also think it's a little harsh to vent frustration at the admission staff specifically for salary figures, because as we know:

1) No statistic will ever be perfect, esp. when it comes to salary figures, and
2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.

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Grizz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Grizz » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:14 pm

coolymx wrote:2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.


But schools do have control over tuition.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:07 pm

What can you tell me about the curve? I know Drexel has given out scholarships with a gpa requirement of 2.67. I think an understanding of the curve would be helpful for students choosing between say, sticker at another school or significant money at drexel.

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:36 pm

rad law wrote:
coolymx wrote:2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.


But schools do have control over tuition.


They also have control over financial aid, which they have been generous with. The effective cost of the degree is generally much lower than the published rates.

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Grizz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Grizz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:41 pm

r6_philly wrote:
rad law wrote:
coolymx wrote:2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.


But schools do have control over tuition.


They also have control over financial aid, which they have been generous with. The effective cost of the degree is generally much lower than the published rates.


Many people are paying sticker or close do it and you know it.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:42 pm

r6_philly wrote:
rad law wrote:
coolymx wrote:2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.


But schools do have control over tuition.


They also have control over financial aid, which they have been generous with. The effective cost of the degree is generally much lower than the published rates.


This is what I was getting at with my question. I know people who have gotten scholarships that have drastically reduced the cost. But, the scholarships have gpa requirements. Without knowing more about the curve it is hard to say whether going to drexel on a scholarship is a just bad idea or a really really bad idea.

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:06 pm

xyzzzzzzzz wrote:This is what I was getting at with my question. I know people who have gotten scholarships that have drastically reduced the cost. But, the scholarships have gpa requirements. Without knowing more about the curve it is hard to say whether going to drexel on a scholarship is a just bad idea or a really really bad idea.


If it is between bad and really bad... why do you want to know?

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:11 pm

rad law wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
rad law wrote:
coolymx wrote:2) admission staff do not rule the world, so they have very little control over the jobs their students receive.


But schools do have control over tuition.


They also have control over financial aid, which they have been generous with. The effective cost of the degree is generally much lower than the published rates.


Many people are paying sticker or close do it and you know it.


Actually I don't. Even if it is true, it isn't likely they would be able to attend a better school for less ... so it doesn't quite matter. All this talk of transparency is great, but it doesn't mean people will not buy into potentially bad ideas simply because they know they are potentially bad ideas. How many people signed Adjustable Rate Mortgages knowing exactly what it meant? They want a law degree and they are willing to pay for it. Honestly I'd like to see someone pay $120k for Drexel than Widener. Hell I know someone who is paying sticker at Cooley ... not everyone is so fortunate to have great options - this isn't exactly the school's fault.

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Grizz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Grizz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:13 pm

r6_philly wrote:Actually I don't. Even if it is true, it isn't likely they would be able to attend a better school for less ... so it doesn't quite matter. All this talk of transparency is great, but it doesn't mean people will not buy into potentially bad ideas simply because they know they are potentially bad ideas. How many people signed Adjustable Rate Mortgages knowing exactly what it meant? They want a law degree and they are willing to pay for it. Honestly I'd like to see someone pay $120k for Drexel than Widener. Hell I know someone who is paying sticker at Cooley ... not everyone is so fortunate to have great options - this isn't exactly the school's fault.


I wouldn't have such a problem with it except that bad employment statistics and govt. loans to anyone with a pulse create a market that functions terribly.

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:35 pm

rad law wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Actually I don't. Even if it is true, it isn't likely they would be able to attend a better school for less ... so it doesn't quite matter. All this talk of transparency is great, but it doesn't mean people will not buy into potentially bad ideas simply because they know they are potentially bad ideas. How many people signed Adjustable Rate Mortgages knowing exactly what it meant? They want a law degree and they are willing to pay for it. Honestly I'd like to see someone pay $120k for Drexel than Widener. Hell I know someone who is paying sticker at Cooley ... not everyone is so fortunate to have great options - this isn't exactly the school's fault.


I wouldn't have such a problem with it except that bad employment statistics and govt. loans to anyone with a pulse create a market that functions terribly.


Everything in this country is marketed with bad statistics, law schools are hardly alone in this practice. Government loans are suppose to foster opportunities and they do that. At the end of the day it is the borrower who is legally responsible to read go through the entrance counseling, to sign the MPN, to pay the enrollment deposit, and to approve the loan disbursement. This country pride in being opportunistic and taking a gamble or two, I wouldn't want it any other way.

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Grizz
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Grizz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:54 pm

r6_philly wrote:Everything in this country is marketed with bad statistics, law schools are hardly alone in this practice.


So... what?

r6_philly
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby r6_philly » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:01 am

rad law wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Everything in this country is marketed with bad statistics, law schools are hardly alone in this practice.


So... what?


So ... people should be used to it and know not to fall for stats. Goes with the second half of my assessment.

Total Litigator
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:06 am

Let's have some respect people, seriously. I think questioning the admission statistics is a valid point, but don't be disrespectful when you do it. It's very nice of law school admissions staff to answer questions on a site like this.

And take your squabbles elsewhere so the thread can serve a constructive purpose.

And please don't comment on the appropriateness of my post, as I won't respond.

edubs003
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby edubs003 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:12 am

Total Litigator wrote:Let's have some respect people, seriously. I think questioning the admission statistics is a valid point, but don't be disrespectful when you do it. It's very nice of law school admissions staff to answer questions on a site like this.

And take your squabbles elsewhere so the thread can serve a constructive purpose.

And please don't comment on the appropriateness of my post, as I won't respond.


I agree, I've actually met this woman and she was very helpful.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Drexel - Earle Mack School of Law...

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:28 pm

Hey I just wanted to thank every one for being A-holes. Any one with real questions will not be able to ask them now.




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