W&L 1L taking questions.. Forum

[msuz]

Can anyone comment on the Public Prosecutors Program? Is it competitive, is it something that students aspire to do, does it lead to jobs?

[llachans]

Can anyone comment on the Public Prosecutors Program? Is it competitive, is it something that students aspire to do, does it lead to jobs?

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[RoddyFlynn]

Hi! I'm a 3L at W&L, I wanted to quickly answer a couple of the questions about LGBT life and the Prosecution Externship.

1) I'm an openly gay guy, and the LGBT is what you'd expect for a liberal arts school in a small town. I've walked through town holding hands with my boyfriend and didn't experience any kind of harassment or even odd looks. It's a surprisingly liberal town. I know some other people think the "Southern" experience of Lexington is not very LGBT friendly, but I've never had any problems. There are a lot of people who are anti-marriage, but they're very open about their opinion and willing to have a discussion on it in a respectful way. Things may get a little more dicey when you get out into the county.
In terms of the school itself, the campus has a 4/5 rating from campus climate. It has a perfect score for treatment/atmosphere for people of diverse sexual orientation, and looses points with resources available for transgendered/transsexual students.
Downside: The gay community is very small. There are currently about 10-12 openly LGB law students, and maybe 30-40 openly LGB undergraduates. (No "T" students yet). The campus has a number of groups for LGBT students...OUTLaw at the law school, and a undergrad/law school group called General Trust, which is like a support/social group with is really fun and usually just leads to hanging out. There's also a more policy group called the GLBT Advisory Committee, which is faculty, staff, and students. Getting involved in the LGBT community is a great way to go outside of the law school bubble.
The law school is very supportive of LGBT people, there is money set aside each year to send students to the Lavender Law LGBT Bar Association Conference.

2) Prosecution Externship - There are prosecution externship positions for 3Ls with temporary practice certificates. Three students go to the US Attorney's office in Roanoke, 3 go to the Roanoke Commonwealth's Attorney, and one goes to the Rockbridge County/Lexington Commonwealth's Attorney. You could probably also arrange one in Staunton. These are amazing experiences, where you will get to do dozens of trials/pleadings throughout the year, and really get a 100% genuine experience as a prosecutor. If you're more interested in defense, the public defenders have similar externships, and we have a Criminal Justice Clinic on campus, which 10 students get into. The positions are competitive, but not so much based on grades, its more based on demonstrated interest. So if you do any summer with a criminal law practice, or if you take crim law classes, or just have some informational interviews with crim law practitioners or professors, you'll be fine getting in. The "selection process" is mostly about making sure people know what they're getting into.

If any of you have any questions, feel free to PM me or post here.

Thanks,
Roddy

[SplitHappy1]

How necessary is a car in Lexington? And, if without one, how necessary is it to buddy-up with a driver in order to maintain the facade of sanity?

[vissidarte27]

Hi! I'm a 3L at W&L, I wanted to quickly answer a couple of the questions about LGBT life and the Prosecution Externship.

1) I'm an openly gay guy, and the LGBT is what you'd expect for a liberal arts school in a small town. I've walked through town holding hands with my boyfriend and didn't experience any kind of harassment or even odd looks. It's a surprisingly liberal town. I know some other people think the "Southern" experience of Lexington is not very LGBT friendly, but I've never had any problems. There are a lot of people who are anti-marriage, but they're very open about their opinion and willing to have a discussion on it in a respectful way. Things may get a little more dicey when you get out into the county.
In terms of the school itself, the campus has a 4/5 rating from campus climate. It has a perfect score for treatment/atmosphere for people of diverse sexual orientation, and looses points with resources available for transgendered/transsexual students.
Downside: The gay community is very small. There are currently about 10-12 openly LGB law students, and maybe 30-40 openly LGB undergraduates. (No "T" students yet). The campus has a number of groups for LGBT students...OUTLaw at the law school, and a undergrad/law school group called General Trust, which is like a support/social group with is really fun and usually just leads to hanging out. There's also a more policy group called the GLBT Advisory Committee, which is faculty, staff, and students. Getting involved in the LGBT community is a great way to go outside of the law school bubble.
The law school is very supportive of LGBT people, there is money set aside each year to send students to the Lavender Law LGBT Bar Association Conference.

Thank you so much for such a wonderfully in-depth view of the LGBT scene at W&L. I really appreciate your perspective; I've just been admitted, and I'm glad to know that there is a community there, however small it may be. I've had some negative experiences in Charlottesville, where I currently live (landlady kicked my girlfriend and I out of our apartment when she found out that we were gay and together), and I was a little hesitant to consider an even smaller southern town. (I'm from Chicago, so I'm still trying to navigate the intolerance that I didn't experience at home.)

Is the OUTLaw group active? Are there courses available that deal with LGBT-type subject matter?

[anjmissy]

How soon should one start looking for a place to live there...also if anyone is interested in finding a roomie, I'm 21, AA female, lgbt...and I'm already pretty set on W&L..I applied early to GW but I'm not expecting an acceptance there..lol

[coldshoulder]

Hi! I'm a 3L at W&L, I wanted to quickly answer a couple of the questions about LGBT life and the Prosecution Externship.

2) Prosecution Externship - There are prosecution externship positions for 3Ls with temporary practice certificates. Three students go to the US Attorney's office in Roanoke, 3 go to the Roanoke Commonwealth's Attorney, and one goes to the Rockbridge County/Lexington Commonwealth's Attorney. You could probably also arrange one in Staunton. These are amazing experiences, where you will get to do dozens of trials/pleadings throughout the year, and really get a 100% genuine experience as a prosecutor. If you're more interested in defense, the public defenders have similar externships, and we have a Criminal Justice Clinic on campus, which 10 students get into. The positions are competitive, but not so much based on grades, its more based on demonstrated interest. So if you do any summer with a criminal law practice, or if you take crim law classes, or just have some informational interviews with crim law practitioners or professors, you'll be fine getting in. The "selection process" is mostly about making sure people know what they're getting into.

If any of you have any questions, feel free to PM me or post here.

Thanks,
Roddy

Hey! Wanted to ask how well these externships transition to real jobs in criminal law.

[RoddyFlynn]

Hey friends,

@SplitHappy1 - Pretty necessary. If you don't have a car you'd have to live in-town or on-campus. I have a friend without a car and she does fine, but she ends up walking a lot. Not having a car can limit your externships too, so you'd pretty much have to do an on-campus clinic you third year. (The clinics are great, but it just limits your options). I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I'd guess 95% of students have cars. People are also really generous with giving rides to the grocery store, airport, etc.

@vissidarte27 - I'm stunned at the landlord in CVille, that's awful. I know of three couples - two gay couples, one lesbian couple - who live together in Lexington and they haven't had problems. They all work with James More Real Estate, so at the very least that company is very accepting. I know of a straight couple who live together but aren't married, and they got a bad vibe from one of the landlords about "living in sin" ((eye roll)). That kind of thing may get more prevalent when you get out into the County, but honestly I can't imagine anyone in Lexington proper caring.
There are not any courses that I'm aware of that explicitly deal with LGBT issues. I will say two things though - the Seminar courses offer a great opportunity to design your own research project. We also talked about LGBT issues in my property, criminal law, and international law classes 1L year, and obviously Constitutional Law 2L year. I took a Bioethics Seminar where we talked a lot about a LGBT issues, and I wrote my paper for that class on medical treatment for transsexual people in prison. I know a lot of people also write on LGBT issues if they're on the Journal of Civil Rights & Social Justice. Family law also talks about LGBT stuff. So yeah, there are no courses, but there are some opportunities. If we had a faculty member who wanted to, the school would definitely allow the courses.

[RoddyFlynn]

Sorry, starting new post, my browser started freaking out.

re: OUTLaw...I'd say our OUTLaw group is just as active as any other club. There isn't a huge amount of time for extracurriculars, but OUTLaw brings a few speakers each year and has some social events. I'm personally more involved with the three campus-wide LBGT organizations, LGBT Advisory Committee, General Trust, and General Equality Initiative, which are all very active.

@anjmissy - The Lexington housing market doesn't heat up until probably March, because thats when students give their landlords notice of if they're moving out or not. You could start looking now, but I think most places won't know if they have availability until the Spring.

@coldshoulder - I know of a couple externs who immediately got jobs with their office. However, prosecutor offices don't have pipeline hiring like firms do (except in big cities) so unless someone leaves, there isn't an opening. A large number of the prosecutor externs and members of the Criminal Justice Clinic (CJC) do very well in the NYC market (mostly Brooklyn and Manhattan) and San Diego Public Defenders. We also have strong connections with DC District Attorney and DC Public Defenders. With prosecutor offices, one of the things they look for on your resume is demonstrated interest, and I think an externship or clinic in the field is the best way to do that. Also, I know the CJC Professor feels it is his personal duty to find everyone in the clinic a job, and I think a lot of the Clinic professors feel the same way. So, while I can't exactly say that doing an externship in, say, Salem Commonwealth Attorney's office will definitely get you a job, there is a possibility for that (and you'd be ahead of the pack), the experience is invaluable and increasingly pre-req for getting a job in other markets with prosecutors.

[coldshoulder]

Any knowledge on general firm hiring?

[RoddyFlynn]

Are you asking about firm hiring from the prosecution externships or firm hiring in general?

Firm hiring in general = fine. Not GREAT, but fine. Some people got the BigLaw offers early, others made great relationships in mid-sized firms and got offers. Small/most mid-sized haven't hired yet, so I'm not sure how it will play out for people.

Firm hiring from prosecution externships = Firms by and large, at least from my anecdotal survey, don't hire criminal defense people right from law school. They typically want people to do some years as a prosecutor or public defender first to get the trial training. I know one girl who's going to a very small firm (she'll be the second person) that does criminal defense.
I think the prosecution externship would be valuable to general firm hiring, but not particularly more valuable then any other externship or clinic.

--Roddy

[somewherewarm]

Thank you for taking questions! I was wondering if you could talk about the where the firms jobs that students take are located, as in what parts of Virginia, DC, etc...

[jbabs]

Thanks for taking questions! How do OOS students fare in the Virginia markets?

[ricky340]

Hey guys so I got into W&L in November and now I'm torn between attending law school at my alma matter (University of Florida) or W&L. I wanted to know what types of law W&L offers for students to study. I'm particularly interested in international law or corporate law, but I am willing to change my interest. Also what type of law does W&L specialize in? At the same time I'm going up for the Open House on Feb.17-18 and I wanted to know if anyone had any opinions about which apartments I should look at if I decide to attend W&L. I currently pay 545 in Gainesville, but I'm looking for a price range of 300-450 in Lexington (crosses fingers).

[EMH99]

Thank you for taking questions! I was wondering if you could talk about the where the firms jobs that students take are located, as in what parts of Virginia, DC, etc...

This as well.

Also, how helpful are W&L alum? I've heard they are loyal & will help you find jobs, but where are they located (geographically & professionally)? Lastly, I saw that W&L was ranked as high as 18th in 2002 & 19th in 2003. Do any students know the reason for the sudden drop & what the school is doing to raise their ranking again?

[jerichosm]

Can anyone comment on W&L vs. Wake Forest?

I'm primarily concerned with employment prospects in VA and NC, cost of living, and quality of education.

Any thoughts are appreciated!


Edit: employment prospects in corporate or transactional law

[anjmissy]

Can anyone comment on W&L vs. Wake Forest?

I'm primarily concerned with employment prospects in VA and NC, cost of living, and quality of education.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

i was also accepted to wake but since ranks don't really matter I've decided on W&L over wake because of location (2 hours from home to me) and also the 3L program. Both schools have other great schools that its competing with W&L with UVA and WM and Wake with UNC and Duke, at this point i would simply say visit both and see which one feels better. Also W&L just mailed out a huge employment packet that I just received yesterday and it was very detailed, im not sure if Wake is sending out the same information.

[anjmissy]

Thank you for taking questions! I was wondering if you could talk about the where the firms jobs that students take are located, as in what parts of Virginia, DC, etc...

This as well.

Also, how helpful are W&L alum? I've heard they are loyal & will help you find jobs, but where are they located (geographically & professionally)? Lastly, I saw that W&L was ranked as high as 18th in 2002 & 19th in 2003. Do any students know the reason for the sudden drop & what the school is doing to raise their ranking again?

I'm also interested in this but i feel like the answer may just be that other schools have gotten better, but US News reported that for the next rankings coming out in march they are doing it a new way so this should be interesting. It should be noted that out of all VA schools W&L had the highest bar passage rate for the July 2011 bar, even better than UVA, so I feel like this should give the school some brownie points maybe. I have heard the rumor though that the ranks between 20-50 don't really matter

[wvu]

How is the fitness center on campus? I like to swim laps after a workout, is there a pool available to general students, or would I be looking for a Y or something?

[mountaintime]

wow, the school employs about half of the students (at least temporarily)?!

"Does W&L Law offer a post-graduate fellowship program for recent graduates?


Yes. Beginning in 2010, our law school began offering a ten-month, post-graduate fellowship for members of our graduating class. Realizing the significant challenge posed by a legal economy in the midst of an unprecedented decline, we established the fellowship program to provide students with a bridge between graduation and future employment.

Students enrolled in the program take unpaid positions in law-related fields in a location and practice area of their choosing. They receive a modest stipend on a quarterly basis that helps them to relocate to the area where they have focused their job search and to gain valuable experience while continuing to seek permanent employment. For job placement reporting purposes, students in the program are included in our employed at graduation and at nine months data.

For the Class of 2010, 51 students enrolled in the post-graduate fellowship program. Only 13 students remained in the program by February 15, 2011, the rest having secured permanent employment. As of June 1, 2011, 60 students from the Class of 2011 were enrolled in the program."

[crouton62]

Hey gang, I'm a W&L UG alum and I am most likely returning to Lex for law school. Thought I'd throw my two cents in here to help answer a couple of questions folks had.

Guy/Gal who went to UF. Lex is dirt cheap; no sweat finding rent for under $450 or even $400.

About W&L alums: One of the best aspects about W&L. Fantastically well-placed alumni who take care of their own. W&L is well-entrenched in NYC, DC, Richmond, Charlotte, Baltimore, Atlanta, and Birmingham, AL for sure. I knew a lot of law students as a UG and can name you very recent grads who are BigLaw-ing it in all above cities. Granted, they were the law review top 15% kind of kids, but still, encouraging from my point of view.

As far as the pool goes; it is open to use as long as the varsity swim teams aren't using it. Fitness center is great; everything you could want in terms of cardio/weights and plenty of squash and racketball and tennis courts as well. Again, though, the varsity athletes share the gym with normal students, so on afternoons were a team has a lift it can get very crowded.

[CwallXC322]

How is the atmosphere in regards to the student body as a whole? I've heard all good things so far, very friendly and welcoming. Does it ever turn gossipy/high school like, due to the low number of students?

Also, how active is the student body? Will there be people willing to take sunday hikes in the mtns?

Thanks again for all your help W&L students!

[crouton62]

Students get along well. W&L tends to attract work hard play hard type kids so the balance the student body has in that regard is nice. Students tend towards the right politically, but certainly lots of voices are present and accounted for. Also, the Honor Systems really fosters a great sense of trust and community. People leave their laptops and wallets lying around w/o fear that they will go missing.

But, it can kinda be W&L high. Small, insulated school means people know who's hooking up with who, who got drunk, who make what grades, etc. Annoying but it's whatever. You can learn to deal.

Yes, the natural beauty of Rockbridge County is great! Lots of hiking, rock climbing, paddling, etc. to be had within easy reach of W&L. The school has a bangin' Outing Club which goes on all sorts of hikes and whatnot. It'll be 99% UG's but still a great resource for that type of activity.

[CwallXC322]

Also, what do you think of the new 3L program? Do you think it's going to help with employment?

What is the employment outlook for grads coming out of W&L?

[seancris]

Also, what do you think of the new 3L program? Do you think it's going to help with employment?

What is the employment outlook for grads coming out of W&L?

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