Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:20 pm

sienna.ann wrote:Any updates on the job prospects ?


For myself or in general? I am set for my 2L summer and couldn't be happier. I feel like I outperformed what my class rank would indicate I should be doing. Not BigLaw or anything, but it definitely fits my long term goal. I know for my friends, it's a mixed bag. I don't go around asking everyone what they're doing for the summer (just in case they're having a hard time about it)... but from what I gather I know a small handful of people with big law, a lot of people in mid-to-small firms, and an equal amount of people still searching. Some of that third group are having varied degrees of success: anywhere from really good shot at landing something good to oh crap. That group also makes up a wide range of the academic spectrum, from law review to barely getting by. Employment's a crap shoot.

I've noticed the biggest game changer in all of that (outside of stellar grades or connections, of course) is any relevant work experience. Not necessarily the oft-touted "real world post undergrad IB/finance" background, either (although it does help); a maligned "K-JD" student can make a huge impact on their job search by having that one thing on their resume that sets them apart from the crowd. A friend of mine, for example, is currently working for a government entity that specializes in a very niche area of law. This person landed that position, in large part, due to an internship s/he once held back in undergrad; from this current gig, a whole swath of opportunities are opening up for the summer.

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Aeroneous
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Aeroneous » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:45 pm

First of all, thanks for all the great info in this thread.

Sifting through all the pages I saw one quick mention of Loyola's clinical programs but no real discussion. I noticed that compared to its peer schools, LLS has quite a few more to offer. Have you taken part in any of these programs or discussed them with classmates who have? I'd love to hear what the general opinion is on them. Although I'm sure they're no substitute for experience, they still seem like a great opportunity.

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:55 pm

Aeroneous wrote:First of all, thanks for all the great info in this thread.

Sifting through all the pages I saw one quick mention of Loyola's clinical programs but no real discussion. I noticed that compared to its peer schools, LLS has quite a few more to offer. Have you taken part in any of these programs or discussed them with classmates who have? I'd love to hear what the general opinion is on them. Although I'm sure they're no substitute for experience, they still seem like a great opportunity.


I don't have direct experience, but I have heard good reviews of the juvenile justice clinic and the district attorney (hobbs) program.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Sun May 06, 2012 11:59 pm

Sorry, I just noticed your question Aeroneous.

The Disability Rights Legal Center and Cancer Legal Resource Center clinics are a pretty good opportunity if you are doing them for credit. If you only do them for volunteer hours, all you do is client intake phone calls. It recently expanded in size and scope and is now located to an office building downtown.

I have a few friends in the other clinics like the new "Project for the Innocent," which a few months ago freed Obie Anthony, a man wrongfully convicted of murder. The people in Juvenile Justice and Youth Justice Education get to handle their own cases the entire way through and get great experience.

Hobbs is also a fantastic experience, as it gives participants real trial experience. It is a 1 year program, where the first semester a special trial advocacy class and the second places you in the DA for an externship.

omega918
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby omega918 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:45 pm

Received my section assignment. Does anyone have any insight on the following: Goldman (Crim Law), Goldberg (Civ Pro), Brain (Contracts), and Selmi (Torts)?

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:40 pm

omega918 wrote:Received my section assignment. Does anyone have any insight on the following: Goldman (Crim Law), Goldberg (Civ Pro), Brain (Contracts), and Selmi (Torts)?

Brain: Not a fan. Mileage may vary, but his teaching style is very distant.
Selmi: Heard good things, but nothing concrete.
Goldberg: ... Not a fan. Infinitely better with marital property (or so I've heard) than as a 1L Civ Pro professor. Very kind and helpful outside of class, but it is a challenge to stay engaged in class.
Goldman: If he is anything like he was in Evidence.... Whether you love his class or hate it turns on whether you enjoy or get sick of him telling stories. He loves telling stories that relate, either directly or tangentially to the lesson of the day. The stories will either illustrate the impact the rules have on real life and sometimes how they turn out differently than you'd expect. I enjoyed it, but I had a few friends who outright hated it.

omega918
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby omega918 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:09 am

Thanks Nole! Your advice throughout this thread has been incredibly thorough and helpful. I also wanted to thank you for mentioning the bookstore on Olympic across the street from campus. I picked up my books there today and he was very helpful and informative, and I got some used books that are in practically new condition.

How did your summer gig end up?

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Raiden
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Raiden » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Cool this thread is still alive. dittio the above, I actually went back and read all of your fantastic responses.

How about Pillsbury, Roberts, Atik, and Ides?

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:13 pm

Raiden wrote:Cool this thread is still alive. dittio the above, I actually went back and read all of your fantastic responses.

How about Pillsbury, Roberts, Atik, and Ides?


Is Ides Civil Procedure for you? I've heard he's alright for that class from my friends who had him....... But he was probably one of the worst professors for Con Law. You will learn nothing if you don't teach yourself. (Yes, I know you're supposed to do that to some extent in law school anyway but you gain nothing from the class.) And my friends and I still trade bring up how horrible his exam was. /rant.

I've heard good things about Pillsbury but I never had him. Haven't heard anything about Roberts or Atik.

omega918 wrote:Thanks Nole! Your advice throughout this thread has been incredibly thorough and helpful. I also wanted to thank you for mentioning the bookstore on Olympic across the street from campus. I picked up my books there today and he was very helpful and informative, and I got some used books that are in practically new condition.

How did your summer gig end up?


Thanks! Glad I could be helpful. My summer was fantastic. Without outing myself, I'll say it was immense fun working in a specialized area of law I'm interested in and I would be thrilled if I could work there after graduation.

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Raiden
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Raiden » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:30 am

Correct, Ides in civil procedure. His ratings in rate my prof are pretty solid, hopefully that's representative...

Atik is the only one in that list who has some tough reviews from rate my prof, fwiw.

Thanks for the response :)

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Pleasye
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Pleasye » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:26 am

Bump to see if Nolein is coming to bar review on Friday.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:45 am

Pleasye wrote:Bump to see if Nolein is coming to bar review on Friday.

Definitely. 8) I take it you are, too?

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Pleasye
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby Pleasye » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:05 am

NoleinNY wrote:Definitely. 8) I take it you are, too?

Yessir I'll be there!

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 2L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:22 am

Pleasye wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:Definitely. 8) I take it you are, too?

Yessir I'll be there!

Hope you had fun!

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PDaddy
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby PDaddy » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:44 am

When eligible for the rankings, how will UC-Irvine will be ranked?

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:59 pm

PDaddy wrote:When eligible for the rankings, how will UC-Irvine will be ranked?

*shrugs* 47?

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:17 pm

Any of the original question answerers still active on here? It seems like there was some optimism surrounding employment around the time this thread started. There is talk of around 2/3 having firm jobs lined up around graduation. It looks like some of this optimism waned towards the time this thread started to die. LST and USNW both show pretty disappointing stats for c/o 2012. Any Loyola old timers care to give their take on this info?

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:25 pm

CO2016YEAH wrote:Any of the original question answerers still active on here? It seems like there was some optimism surrounding employment around the time this thread started. There is talk of around 2/3 having firm jobs lined up around graduation. It looks like some of this optimism waned towards the time this thread started to die. LST and USNW both show pretty disappointing stats for c/o 2012. Any Loyola old timers care to give their take on this info?


C/o 2012 here. I would be speculating if I tried to generalize about the employment situation. It is truly all over the map.

I can tell you that my (rather good, though highly unusual) outcome is not captured in those statistics. I have a large grant to study the Russian legal system for the next two years.

Statistics have their limitations. What really matters is what you bring to the table, whether it be in terms of grades, social connections, previous professional work experience, unusual language ability etc. etc. etc.

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CO2016YEAH
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby CO2016YEAH » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:43 pm

Danteshek wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:Any of the original question answerers still active on here? It seems like there was some optimism surrounding employment around the time this thread started. There is talk of around 2/3 having firm jobs lined up around graduation. It looks like some of this optimism waned towards the time this thread started to die. LST and USNW both show pretty disappointing stats for c/o 2012. Any Loyola old timers care to give their take on this info?


C/o 2012 here. I would be speculating if I tried to generalize about the employment situation. It is truly all over the map.

I can tell you that my (rather good, though highly unusual) outcome is not captured in those statistics. I have a large grant to study the Russian legal system for the next two years.

Statistics have their limitations. What really matters is what you bring to the table, whether it be in terms of grades, social connections, previous professional work experience, unusual language ability etc. etc. etc.


Hmmm. Well thanks for answering! I like to think I will be able to bring most of the things you mentioned to the table. However, it would be nice if the degree in and of itself was enough to land a sweet job, as seems to be the case with a handful of institutions closer to the top of the rankings. Of course, it is frightening to think that bringing some of the aforementioned traits/skills/experience to the table in conjunction with the degree might not be enough.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:35 pm

C/o 2013 (and OP).

DS's observations are fairly on point.

One thing that has been both frightening and comforting is that grades only helped certain people I know get jobs. I know below median people with sweet jobs lined up and people in the top 25% struggling, just as there are people without gigs who are below median and people at the top with gigs.

For people who aren't at the very top, there is a hierarchy of factors:

Relevant WE > Connections >> Working Through All of LS > LR

The more of the factors you have, the more likely you have a job at graduation. It might be shocking to see LR so far at the bottom, but I've seen the power the other three factors have. Even working at a place through all of law school had more impact based on my (admittedly imperfect) sample of classmates. I also know a person who is working at an amazing firm but almost certainly did not have the grades (or, if they were good, not THAT good). That person had connections. Compare that to a person who has great grades people AND is on LR/journal but doesn't have a job lined up.

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:04 am

CO2016YEAH wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:Any of the original question answerers still active on here? It seems like there was some optimism surrounding employment around the time this thread started. There is talk of around 2/3 having firm jobs lined up around graduation. It looks like some of this optimism waned towards the time this thread started to die. LST and USNW both show pretty disappointing stats for c/o 2012. Any Loyola old timers care to give their take on this info?


C/o 2012 here. I would be speculating if I tried to generalize about the employment situation. It is truly all over the map.

I can tell you that my (rather good, though highly unusual) outcome is not captured in those statistics. I have a large grant to study the Russian legal system for the next two years.

Statistics have their limitations. What really matters is what you bring to the table, whether it be in terms of grades, social connections, previous professional work experience, unusual language ability etc. etc. etc.


Hmmm. Well thanks for answering! I like to think I will be able to bring most of the things you mentioned to the table. However, it would be nice if the degree in and of itself was enough to land a sweet job, as seems to be the case with a handful of institutions closer to the top of the rankings. Of course, it is frightening to think that bringing some of the aforementioned traits/skills/experience to the table in conjunction with the degree might not be enough.


I also think your willingness to be flexible is a big part of the equation. Are you willing to move to where the work is? Would you move to San Bernadino? Singapore? Dubai? How adventurous are you? What kind of risks are you willing to take?

If you limit yourself to law firms in Los Angeles you may be disappointed.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:31 am

Danteshek wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
CO2016YEAH wrote:Any of the original question answerers still active on here? It seems like there was some optimism surrounding employment around the time this thread started. There is talk of around 2/3 having firm jobs lined up around graduation. It looks like some of this optimism waned towards the time this thread started to die. LST and USNW both show pretty disappointing stats for c/o 2012. Any Loyola old timers care to give their take on this info?


C/o 2012 here. I would be speculating if I tried to generalize about the employment situation. It is truly all over the map.

I can tell you that my (rather good, though highly unusual) outcome is not captured in those statistics. I have a large grant to study the Russian legal system for the next two years.

Statistics have their limitations. What really matters is what you bring to the table, whether it be in terms of grades, social connections, previous professional work experience, unusual language ability etc. etc. etc.


Hmmm. Well thanks for answering! I like to think I will be able to bring most of the things you mentioned to the table. However, it would be nice if the degree in and of itself was enough to land a sweet job, as seems to be the case with a handful of institutions closer to the top of the rankings. Of course, it is frightening to think that bringing some of the aforementioned traits/skills/experience to the table in conjunction with the degree might not be enough.


I also think your willingness to be flexible is a big part of the equation. Are you willing to move to where the work is? Would you move to San Bernadino? Singapore? Dubai? Fresno? Ventura? How adventurous are you? What kind of risks are you willing to take?

If you limit yourself to law firms in Los Angeles you may be disappointed.

FTFMost likely alternatives.

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:44 am

My advice is to carve your own path and forget about what is most popular..

It takes cojones to go where there are jobs, wherever they are in the world. Obviously if you've lived your whole life in LA that comes as a big shock to the system.

And yes, there are jobs in Dubai and Singapore (and Hong Kong and Moscow etc etc)

The California economy is shit. Pure shit. Shitty. Shit shit.

If you wind up in Bakersfield or Fresno it's your own damn fault




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