Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:10 pm

trose28 wrote:Does any one anything about the medici apartments any students that might live there? Or how easy it is to find a roommate for your first year?


Friend of mine lives there and loves it. It is pricey as hell, though.

Roommate finding is fairly simple; as I said earlier, the school gives students access to a private classifieds of fellow Loyolans to find potential roommates. I know a lot of people who are satisfied with that.
Judge Philip Banks wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
Judge Philip Banks wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
By the time you study for the bar, you won't remember a single thing from 1L. Don't worry. You are over thinking it.

Yeah, I know you are right haha. I guess then, while we're on the subject of the bar and bar materials, when do you guys think you should purchase the bar prep course (BarBri I would assume)? I think you can get some beneficial materials by purchasing it early, as well as a lower price, but I have also heard this argued against.


Don't think about this yet.

Not even as a 1L?


No. There are 99 things for you to worry about between now and 2013; that is not one of them.

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Judge Philip Banks
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Judge Philip Banks » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:23 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
No. There are 99 things for you to worry about between now and 2013; that is not one of them.

Fair enough. I realize I'm getting way ahead of myself... :oops:

rocketgirl11
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby rocketgirl11 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:40 pm

[quote/]Higher up the rank, the better, obviously. Don't know the class of 10's numbers yet, but class of '09 had 74 people at firms of more than 100+ people; out of a graduating class of 396 people, that works out to be 18.6%. Number of people who got jobs through OCI is at 60 people or approximately 15% of the class. 12 people doing judicial clerkships. This obviously says little about what % you need, because it doesn't factor interviewing, luck, LR, networking skills, etc. If I had to guess, top 15% gets a pretty good shot.

If you want to know more, here you go; new numbers should be coming in in the coming months.

http://intranet.lls.edu/careerservices/ ... tstats.pdf

Edit: there is a post floating around the forums that I am too lazy to find that compiled list of new grads at LA big law and LLS ranked like 3rd in top placement (ahead of a lot of big hitters, which is probably a function of self-selection but w/e).[/quote]

__________________________________________________________________________

Wow, thanks for all of your great advice throughout this thread, Loyola students! It seems that the number of people going to firms is pretty good relative to other schools.

To go this route, would you guys say that being in the top 15% of the class is more important, or how much do hiring attorneys look at extracurriculars (are extracurriculars an added bonus? Should we even demonstrate interest in a specific area through extracurriculars, or just go for the general learning of the law?)

I've heard that Loyola's alums are pretty good about keeping a network with the school; do you think that this helps with firm hiring?

When (in your time in LS) do you have to decide whether you are interested more in litigation or transactional work?

You guys also mentioned that the exams are closed-book...in this case, how would you recommend studying most effectively?

Thank you so much!

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:07 am

Rocketgirl, one question at a time please. And make your questions specific. I am usually on a smartphone when I answer. Thanks.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:59 am

rocketgirl11 wrote:[quote/]Higher up the rank, the better, obviously. Don't know the class of 10's numbers yet, but class of '09 had 74 people at firms of more than 100+ people; out of a graduating class of 396 people, that works out to be 18.6%. Number of people who got jobs through OCI is at 60 people or approximately 15% of the class. 12 people doing judicial clerkships. This obviously says little about what % you need, because it doesn't factor interviewing, luck, LR, networking skills, etc. If I had to guess, top 15% gets a pretty good shot.

If you want to know more, here you go; new numbers should be coming in in the coming months.

http://intranet.lls.edu/careerservices/ ... tstats.pdf

Edit: there is a post floating around the forums that I am too lazy to find that compiled list of new grads at LA big law and LLS ranked like 3rd in top placement (ahead of a lot of big hitters, which is probably a function of self-selection but w/e).


__________________________________________________________________________

Wow, thanks for all of your great advice throughout this thread, Loyola students! It seems that the number of people going to firms is pretty good relative to other schools.

To go this route, would you guys say that being in the top 15% of the class is more important, or how much do hiring attorneys look at extracurriculars (are extracurriculars an added bonus? Should we even demonstrate interest in a specific area through extracurriculars, or just go for the general learning of the law?)

I've heard that Loyola's alums are pretty good about keeping a network with the school; do you think that this helps with firm hiring?

When (in your time in LS) do you have to decide whether you are interested more in litigation or transactional work?

You guys also mentioned that the exams are closed-book...in this case, how would you recommend studying most effectively?

Thank you so much![/quote]

If given the choice of having top 15% grades but no extracurriculars versus median grades but Section Rep and VP/Secretary of ________ Law Student Society, I would take the grades in a heartbeat (if big firm work was my goal). You can always get involved in little ways without sacrificing too much time, but you shouldn't throw work ethic out the window so you can have something cool to talk to interviewers about...

Every little bit helps regarding the network. That said, the power of a strong alumni network can only go so far. If you are trying to get into *Insert Random V100 Law Firm,* and you have shit grades, the fact that they have a lot of LLS alums won't push you over a student from ___ Law School with excellent grades.

You don't have that much control over going transactional vs litigation. There are steps you can take, like targeting firms (large and small) that will get you good experience in one type of practice versus another but -ITE - you take what you can get.

Everyone has their own strategy that will work for them. Generally, it is a two step process: memorize the law, then figure out how to apply it as best you can in the context of your professor's particular exam. The first half is up to you: maybe you need flashcards, or work well with CALI lessons, or absorb information from hornbooks well. Your outline (should you choose to make one) would come into play in memorizing the material and in the application phase. Outlines are good for the exam application part of studying because it helps you structure your "attack" on the exam. It can help you remember that, when (for example) you are faced with a questionably valid Contract you need to figure out "Is there mutual assent and consideration?" "First, is there an Offer? Acceptance?" Etc.

This should theoretically make more sense when you if/when you actually go to law school.

To be fair, DS, Rocket probably isn't expecting us to be reading the forums of a 2-3 inch screen (unless you're using an EVO, in which case you're halfway to a netbook sized screen haha).

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby rocketgirl11 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:13 am

Nole, thank you so much!!! I'm gathering that grades will be the #1 most important thing, then, no matter which law school one goes to. Yikes.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:15 pm

rocketgirl11 wrote:Nole, thank you so much!!! I'm gathering that grades will be the #1 most important thing, then, no matter which law school one goes to. Yikes.


Pretty much for any school that isn't Harvard, Yale or Stanford, it goes Grades > Networking > Extracurriculars > Prayer(?) > Other

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:36 pm

Wanted to post an update for all those who are interested.

It was just announced to us 1Ls that, starting in the Class of 2013's 2L year (i.e, this fall, for current 1Ls like myself and all future students) that we will be introducing Concentrations. Apparently, before, we simply had vague "Courses of Study" which was just an way of categorizing classes by field of law.

Here is what I know so far:
* It will be completely voluntary; if you don't want to be in a concentration, you don't have to.

* Even if you sign up for a concentration, you are not bound to it; you are free to complete it or not, no harm no foul.

* There are at least 3 concentrations that will be ready for next year, although more are planned.: Business Transactions, Civil Advocacy and Criminal Justice (I forgot the exact names, so that may not be what it is called. The categories are correct, though.) Future concentrations may include Tax and PI.

The benefit of signing up for a concentration includes:
* There is an experiential component involving either externships in the field or workshops that simulate practice.

* Students will be given priority registration for certain courses within the concentration.

* There will be a notation on your transcript that you had this concentration (if you complete it).

* Finally, for those who excel within the concentration, there are honors one can receive. Let me clarify this a bit... It will NOT give you a Summa/Magna/ Cum Laude or Order of the Coif or anything like that. However, if you do very well within your concentration, your transcript will say Honors in ____. The theory behind it being, for example, if you aren't in the Top 25% of your class but you manage to ace your Criminal Justice or Civil Ad; when applying to a firm, or your DA's office, or whatever, your transcript will point out "Hey, this guy/gal know's their stuff in the area of law you care about."

Will it be a game changer? No. Will it help someone who has a 3.0 get a job that would normally go to a 3.7? No. But it's a little extra thing to help students out and who knows? It may help someone with average grades (but who gets honors in the concentration) land a (non-biglaw but non-shitlaw) job .

Danteshek
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:25 am

Happy to report that Loyola moved up from #56 to #54. Go LLS!

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby 1ferret! » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:05 am

Danteshek wrote:Happy to report that Loyola moved up from #56 to #54. Go LLS!


143 students of the 388 who graduated were unemployed...ouch
heres hoping numbers like that are the worst of it and theres a big bounce for next year

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:29 am

1ferret! wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Happy to report that Loyola moved up from #56 to #54. Go LLS!


143 students of the 388 who graduated were unemployed...ouch
heres hoping numbers like that are the worst of it and theres a big bounce for next year


What are you doing in this thread, Mr. Pepperdine?

Big law firms are pretty much the only employers that hire students "at graduation." The rest have to pass the bar before working.

Also, hi --LinkRemoved--

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:38 am

Higher % of LLS grads were employed at graduation than Pepperdine grads (63.4 v. 59.3%). I'd prefer it to be closer to 75%, but at least it looks like approximately the Top 2/3 (I'm guessing) can get jobs out of the gate.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby 1ferret! » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:56 am

The above was not to demean, only to share in the grief. It was an awful year to come out, all around but our institutions seemed particularly hard hit. I always lurk around the Loyola threads, bc I know several who have attended or considered it (many people looking to be in LA apply to both) and I can generally speak to the differences between the two. For Pepperdine, it was ~83 kids coming out unemployed, and they were none too happy about it.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:36 am

1ferret! wrote:The above was not to demean, only to share in the grief. It was an awful year to come out, all around but our institutions seemed particularly hard hit. I always lurk around the Loyola threads, bc I know several who have attended or considered it (many people looking to be in LA apply to both) and I can generally speak to the differences between the two. For Pepperdine, it was ~83 kids coming out unemployed, and they were none too happy about it.


I understand; I just wanted to put the numbers in this thread since they are relevant. I'm sure they were; we're all in the same boat known as the So Cal legal market.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:37 am

1ferret! wrote:The above was not to demean, only to share in the grief. It was an awful year to come out, all around but our institutions seemed particularly hard hit. I always lurk around the Loyola threads, bc I know several who have attended or considered it (many people looking to be in LA apply to both) and I can generally speak to the differences between the two. For Pepperdine, it was ~83 kids coming out unemployed, and they were none too happy about it.


You know, I don't think it is that bad. I, for one, will not even be looking for a job in California as a 3L. My girlfriend is a sophomore at Georgetown, and I will probably apply for the Securities and Financial Regulation LLM there if the SEC doesn't pick me up for Advance Commitment. In any case, I'm moving to the East Coast when I graduate and taking the New York Bar.
Last edited by Danteshek on Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jesss
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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby jesss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:37 pm

thanks nole & dante, you guys have been super helpful! i'm gathering that the campus atmosphere is fairly laid-back & that most people are friendly. on this note, would you say that people wear t-shirts/rainbows/jeans to class? and this might be a dumb question but are backpacks the desired carry-all (particularly for girls...maybe a giant purse/tote bag is a better option)? i have some friends at ucla that tell me to invest in a rolly backpack thing but idk if i'd be willing to pull that off lol

also, any word on how commuter students fit into the social scene?

last question...do students typically work or have RA positions during their 2L/3L years? or are summer positions the norm?

Thank you!!!

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:33 pm

Jess- don't worry about your wardrobe. This is graduate school. Casual is ok, but keep it professional. Summer positions are the norm (paid or unpaid)..

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:11 pm

jesss wrote:thanks nole & dante, you guys have been super helpful! i'm gathering that the campus atmosphere is fairly laid-back & that most people are friendly. on this note, would you say that people wear t-shirts/rainbows/jeans to class? and this might be a dumb question but are backpacks the desired carry-all (particularly for girls...maybe a giant purse/tote bag is a better option)? i have some friends at ucla that tell me to invest in a rolly backpack thing but idk if i'd be willing to pull that off lol

also, any word on how commuter students fit into the social scene?

last question...do students typically work or have RA positions during their 2L/3L years? or are summer positions the norm?

Thank you!!!


Commuter students fit in fine; I have many friends who commute from Pasadena and the Valley. At orientation, I heard of people commuting from (2L/3Ls) Irvine, etc. They just have to plan accordingly for their day ahead of time. 9/10 times, its casual or even sub-casual (e.g., sweats, although I don't advocate it). I know 3 people with rolly-backpacks. One is a married man in his late 20s/early 30s, a bookish girl, and the third is a rather small girl who actually needs a rolly-backpack. Unless you plan on a) camping in the library all day or b) are exceptionally undersized, you won't need one. There are lockers available (first come first serve), although I tend to just leave unneeded stuff in my car. Some people do RA work, externships, or paid work during 2L and 3L, although they aren't common (except maybe the externships).

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:20 am

There was a meeting on Tuesday about concentrations. The first two concentrations to be approved are:

Civil Litigation, and
Criminal Justice

In April, there will be faculty votes on whether to establish concentrations in:

Taxation,
International,
Civil Rights and
Business Transactions

The concentrations will involve four aspects:

First year foundation
Required upper level curriculum
Externship
Community impact

There is already a Business Practicum that involves completing four classes - Business Associations, Securities Regulation, Mergers & Acquisitions and Business Planning - Financing the Start up Business and Venture Capital Financing. The administration is struggling with the last two aspects (Externship and Community impact) for the Business Transactions concentration, so the chance of that one being established is less. If that happens there will always be the Business Practicum.

LLS is planning an Environmental concentration, but that probably will not be established until next year.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby seaguy2010 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:39 pm

I have a couple questions:

*What's the first quarter schedule like?

*If trying to find a small studio, what kind of prices am I looking at? What areas would be decent to live in? I don't need to be a really nice area or anything, but I also don't want to be in a place that I have to deal with problem neighbors, really unsafe crime, etc. I would also ideally like a place that isn't a far commute from the school.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:56 pm

seaguy2010 wrote:I have a couple questions:

*What's the first quarter schedule like?


LLS is on a semester system. Your classes will depend in part on what section your are in. Not all sections take all the same classes at the same time. Don't worry about this. You will take all the classes a 1L would normally take.

seaguy2010 wrote:*If trying to find a small studio, what kind of prices am I looking at? What areas would be decent to live in? I don't need to be a really nice area or anything, but I also don't want to be in a place that I have to deal with problem neighbors, really unsafe crime, etc. I would also ideally like a place that isn't a far commute from the school.


I suggest you live along Wilshire or Olympic, around or west of La Brea. You can get a nice 1 bedroom for $1200, which is pretty cheap. I do not think it is in your best interest to skimp on housing.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby seaguy2010 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:08 pm

Dante, I completely agree not to skimp on housing. The last thing I need is to deal with housing issues bc I tried to save a couple hundred per month.

Can you also elaborate on a couple more specific questions:


*I plan to form my own firm. I'm currently drawn to business law or family law, but my goal is to immediately begin networking in the community, get as much experience as I possibly can, do well in my classes, and work for a while under someone else until I'm ready to move forward. I'm also considering a JD/MBA to help give me extra leverage. What do you suggest for networking? Any other tips you could give as I get started towards this goal?

*What kind of things are key to succeeding the first year? Of course there's the obvious answer of studying hard, but what else have you noticed?

I am going to be paying sticker price at Loyola--at least for my first year--so it's important to me that I make sure to get the most out of it.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:08 pm

seaguy2010 wrote: *I plan to form my own firm. I'm currently drawn to business law or family law, but my goal is to immediately begin networking in the community, get as much experience as I possibly can, do well in my classes, and work for a while under someone else until I'm ready to move forward. I'm also considering a JD/MBA to help give me extra leverage. What do you suggest for networking? Any other tips you could give as I get started towards this goal?


Don't bother with MBA. LMU's program is not very good and MBAs are a waste of time in general. If you start your own firm, it will be important to minimize debt.

seaguy2010 wrote: *What kind of things are key to succeeding the first year? Of course there's the obvious answer of studying hard, but what else have you noticed? I am going to be paying sticker price at Loyola--at least for my first year--so it's important to me that I make sure to get the most out of it.


Forget about going out, ever. Study at least 25 hours a week, not including time spent in classes. Study every single day. Take lots of practice exams. Visit your professors for office hours on a regular basis.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby NoleinNY » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:51 pm

Danteshek wrote:
seaguy2010 wrote: *I plan to form my own firm. I'm currently drawn to business law or family law, but my goal is to immediately begin networking in the community, get as much experience as I possibly can, do well in my classes, and work for a while under someone else until I'm ready to move forward. I'm also considering a JD/MBA to help give me extra leverage. What do you suggest for networking? Any other tips you could give as I get started towards this goal?


Don't bother with MBA. LMU's program is not very good and MBAs are a waste of time in general. If you start your own firm, it will be important to minimize debt.

seaguy2010 wrote: *What kind of things are key to succeeding the first year? Of course there's the obvious answer of studying hard, but what else have you noticed? I am going to be paying sticker price at Loyola--at least for my first year--so it's important to me that I make sure to get the most out of it.


Forget about going out, ever. Study at least 25 hours a week, not including time spent in classes. Study every single day. Take lots of practice exams. Visit your professors for office hours on a regular basis.


I respectfully disagree with bolded. Everything else, like studying 25-30 hours a week, doing practice tests, visiting profs, etc., is vitally important to success. Even the most hardcore and best performing of my classmates go out on occasion and have lives outside of school. Granted, they aren't partying every night, or being irresponsible and they still don't have the kinds of free time that you would get in undergrad. It doesn't follow that you can never ever go out. Let's say you study 3 hours a day during weekdays and 6 on weekends, with practice tests, that still leaves a few hours on a Friday or Saturday night to see a movie, or go on a date, or have a few drinks.

This is NOT to say that one strategy is necessarily better than the other. Rather, it depends on what it takes to get you from August to May with the best possible grade. Some straight A students see any thing resembling "going out" as a horribly, derailing temptation that must be avoided lest they get to distracted; for them, this strategy works. Others need some sort of release valve to prevent burnout. Even Arrow, the former LLS student who got top 5%, transferred to Boalt, and wrote a guide to law school success which advocated studying 8(!) hours a day, suggested allowing yourself some semblance of a life.

tl; dr version: If it helps you stay motivated to think you can never go out, go for it. This is not the only avenue to success.

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Re: Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 1L, Taking Questions

Postby seaguy2010 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:40 pm

I don't have a problem studying a lot. Having been out of school for a couple years and seeing that I have to work 50+ hours a week minimum, the thought of studying a lot for a field I enjoy is appealing. At the same time, I do like going out, and I think that I would still need some time on the weekends to relax a little.

However, I'm still confused about the MBA. I was not going for the MBA for the name or anything. I was going to get it because I wanted to have the knowledge. Why would the knowledge base not outweigh the extra year of school?




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