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trose28:

If you find yourself struggling, the professors here at Loyola are EXTREMELY accessible. I didn't do as well on my Torts midterm as I would have liked, and my prof is now meeting with me weekly. I outline a section of what we're studying and bring it in to him each week and we go over it together. And I didn't do BADLY, I just did average and had been hoping to do better. So he's helping me to get there. Also, a lot of profs will give out copies of their past exams so you can practice before the actual exam. I didn't do this, which is probably why I fell short of my expectations. Some of the profs will even look at your answers to practice exams and go over them with you before the midterm. There is also an academic society of students who are at the top of their classes and they offer tutoring. All this to say is that Loyola wants its students to do well and there is plenty to take advantage of if you choose to.

dreabee wrote:trose28:

If you find yourself struggling, the professors here at Loyola are EXTREMELY accessible. I didn't do as well on my Torts midterm as I would have liked, and my prof is now meeting with me weekly. I outline a section of what we're studying and bring it in to him each week and we go over it together. And I didn't do BADLY, I just did average and had been hoping to do better. So he's helping me to get there. Also, a lot of profs will give out copies of their past exams so you can practice before the actual exam. I didn't do this, which is probably why I fell short of my expectations. Some of the profs will even look at your answers to practice exams and go over them with you before the midterm. There is also an academic society of students who are at the top of their classes and they offer tutoring. All this to say is that Loyola wants its students to do well and there is plenty to take advantage of if you choose to.

This. There are so many resources available to you as a student to help you succeed if you choose to take it. (I just wish the school would keep the library open later...)

The academic society Dreabee is referring to is the St Thomas More Honors Society, and they offer a free online outline (say that 5 times fast) bank from top performing students. Obviously, professors may change their curriculum from time to time and it is always a good idea to do some outlining on your own, but it is definitely a good resource for filling in material and getting a sense of structure.

Dreabee: If you don't mind me asking (you can send a PM if you don't feel like going public) Hayden or Nockleby?

NoleinNY: I am actually an evening student, so I have Selmi. GREAT prof btw!

I've heard good things about him, especially with environmental law.

If you find yourself struggling, the professors here at Loyola are EXTREMELY accessible. I didn't do as well on my Torts midterm as I would have liked, and my prof is now meeting with me weekly. I outline a section of what we're studying and bring it in to him each week and we go over it together. And I didn't do BADLY, I just did average and had been hoping to do better. So he's helping me to get there. Also, a lot of profs will give out copies of their past exams so you can practice before the actual exam. I didn't do this, which is probably why I fell short of my expectations. Some of the profs will even look at your answers to practice exams and go over them with you before the midterm. There is also an academic society of students who are at the top of their classes and they offer tutoring. All this to say is that Loyola wants its students to do well and there is plenty to take advantage of if you choose to.[/quote]

This. There are so many resources available to you as a student to help you succeed if you choose to take it. (I just wish the school would keep the library open later...)

The academic society Dreabee is referring to is the St Thomas More Honors Society, and they offer a free online outline (say that 5 times fast) bank from top performing students. Obviously, professors may change their curriculum from time to time and it is always a good idea to do some outlining on your own, but it is definitely a good resource for filling in material and getting a sense of structure.

Dreabee: If you don't mind me asking (you can send a PM if you don't feel like going public) Hayden or Nockleby?[/quote]



Dreabee Does loyola differ than many other schools in that they have midterms and not just a final? I could be wrong but most schools that I have been visiting say that your only grades for your first and second semester classes are your finals.

I can only speak for the evening program. In the first year, we have four classes that last for the full academic year: Torts, Contracts, Legal Research and Writing, and Property. Legal Research/Writing requires a few papers and assignments over the course of the year. Torts, Contracts, and Property each have a midterm in December and a final in May.

I'm not sure how the day program works -- perhaps someone else can answer?

Thanks for answering questions. Got accepted w/ a nice scholly, and I love LA/have connections to legal market there, so I'm thinking about this one a lot.

1. How many people do you know lose their scholarship? I realize that this is a far from accurate predictor of whether or not I would keep my own scholly, but I'm curious nonetheless. Really terrified of losing my scholly after the first year w/ that top 30% stip.

2. Is Silverlake an alright place to live? I heard that's a cool neighborhood. I'd like to be able to bike to class if possible. I realize that LA isn't the most bike friendly place, but do you think that commuting from Silverlake via bicycle would be possible?

3. It sounds like a lot of ppl commute to Loyola from furhter out. Is there much of a social life w/ the other law school students or is it more of a come to campus, work, and go home type atmosphere?

Not counting Legal Research and Writing, Day students get 2 classes that are a year long and 2 classes that are semester long, and it varies by section. Section 4 has Property and Torts year long, and had Contracts/Crim and CivPro/ConLaw as fall and spring only respectively; Section 2, on the other hand, had Property and Contracts year long, etc. For some reason, Crim law had only a graded final and no graded midterm; I think that was because it was a 4 credit and not a 5 credit course, but I don't know for sure. Generally, the mid terms are worth between 20-40% of your grade, while the Final is 60-100%. Nockleby is an exception; by the end of the year, he will have given 4 exams: 1 worth 10% that covered intentional torts MC and "issue statement writing" and had a "compressed curve" (less As and Fs and more Bs), 1 worth about 20/30% that was a race-horse issue spotter, and he has 2 more exams to go. I think that is more a function of Nockleby's teaching philosophy, and I know it is definitely not the norm.

crit_racer wrote:Thanks for answering questions. Got accepted w/ a nice scholly, and I love LA/have connections to legal market there, so I'm thinking about this one a lot.

1. How many people do you know lose their scholarship? I realize that this is a far from accurate predictor of whether or not I would keep my own scholly, but I'm curious nonetheless. Really terrified of losing my scholly after the first year w/ that top 30% stip.

2. Is Silverlake an alright place to live? I heard that's a cool neighborhood. I'd like to be able to bike to class if possible. I realize that LA isn't the most bike friendly place, but do you think that commuting from Silverlake via bicycle would be possible?

3. It sounds like a lot of ppl commute to Loyola from furhter out. Is there much of a social life w/ the other law school students or is it more of a come to campus, work, and go home type atmosphere?

1. I don't know anyone who has, because I am just a 1L and they wouldn't take schollies away until 1L year is over; I haven't asked many 2Ls about the issue.

2. I've heard a lot of good things about Silverlake and know a few people who live there. I don't know about biking from there, though. I know one guy who bikes to school and I think he lives in the MacArthur Park area (but I'm not entirely sure).

3. Oh, it is very social here. There are bar reviews often (where the school as a whole goes to bars and clubs collectively). Section social-ness seems to vary; of the people I know in my section and my friends' sections, people hang out together outside of school often. I find myself hanging out more with classmates more than non-LS friends.

So last week I found out that each section has a different pair of year-long classes during 1L.

How does this work with grades? For first semester, is your class grade for a year-long class based on a midterm that you took during finals period? For second semester of a year-long class, does your grade take into account that midterm you actually took during first semester along with the final you take during second semester?

Are ALL 1L classes subject to being 2 semesters long? Does this include Legal Research and Writing?

Are there any disadvantages to this practice, such as not learning everything in Civ Pro in one semester that someone who has it for two semesters would presumably learn? Any other disadvantages/advantages to you?

Judge Philip Banks wrote:So last week I found out that each section has a different pair of year-long classes during 1L.

How does this work with grades? For first semester, is your class grade for a year-long class based on a midterm that you took during finals period? For second semester of a year-long class, does your grade take into account that midterm you actually took during first semester along with the final you take during second semester?

Are ALL 1L classes subject to being 2 semesters long? Does this include Legal Research and Writing?

Are there any disadvantages to this practice, such as not learning everything in Civ Pro in one semester that someone who has it for two semesters would presumably learn? Any other disadvantages/advantages to you?

It works that everyone has 15 credit hours worth of grades by January/February. Not all classes are subject to the scheme. LRW, however, is always going to be a year long for everyone. Also, everyone took Criminal Law first semester; everyone takes Con Law second semester.

Honestly, I can't think of any real advantages or disadvantages to the system for the students; by the end of the year you've covered everything (presumably) in the same amount of hours per year as everyone else. The system helps allocate professors who are teaching that year. Sometimes you'll have a professor teach for a few years, then do research or publishing for a few years while someone else takes over. In the occasional instance that an issue crosses over courses (Property-related torts, Full Faith and Credit, etc.), the professors are going to explain it to you anyway. "Oh, Professor ____ didn't cover that (yet)? Well, essentially it is... Anyway, so back to..."

For instance, my Con Law professor asked us if we covered a particular topic in Civil Procedure and the class told him we didn't; he gave enough of a primer to understand what he was saying in context and moved on. Similar with Property asking us if we remembered something from Contracts (which we actually didn't cover despite finishing it all in Fall).

I will say I think some classes ought to be a year long, like Contracts; it is such a dense subject that rushing through it (even if you are technically getting the same amount of hours of coverage) does you a disservice. This is all moot in the end: everyone in your section is being rushed through it and the curve should reflect it, and you will be relearning this while studying for the bar anyway.

Something related to the Bar that DS mentioned a few times in the past: we beat UCLA in bar passage rates in the most recent administration of the test. My Torts professor has a theory that this is due to LLS having closed book exams (and, thus, marginally higher retention of the material).

Also, Barrister's Ball (a.k.a. Law School Prom) is coming up in 2 weeks. Totally irrelevant; just letting y'all know that you have that to look forward to in a year.

- sounds like an awful way to schedule first year classes....

A transfer (from the University of Oregon) was elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review. I'm not sure if this is the first time this has happened, but I consider it to be fairly significant news. I think it is indicative of the inclusive nature of the community at Loyola. Many people are not aware that about four times more people transfer into Loyola than transfer out every year. I think there were about fifty transfers this year.

NoleinNY wrote:

Judge Philip Banks wrote:So last week I found out that each section has a different pair of year-long classes during 1L.

How does this work with grades? For first semester, is your class grade for a year-long class based on a midterm that you took during finals period? For second semester of a year-long class, does your grade take into account that midterm you actually took during first semester along with the final you take during second semester?

Are ALL 1L classes subject to being 2 semesters long? Does this include Legal Research and Writing?

Are there any disadvantages to this practice, such as not learning everything in Civ Pro in one semester that someone who has it for two semesters would presumably learn? Any other disadvantages/advantages to you?

It works that everyone has 15 credit hours worth of grades by January/February. Not all classes are subject to the scheme. LRW, however, is always going to be a year long for everyone. Also, everyone took Criminal Law first semester; everyone takes Con Law second semester.

Honestly, I can't think of any real advantages or disadvantages to the system for the students; by the end of the year you've covered everything (presumably) in the same amount of hours per year as everyone else. The system helps allocate professors who are teaching that year. Sometimes you'll have a professor teach for a few years, then do research or publishing for a few years while someone else takes over. In the occasional instance that an issue crosses over courses (Property-related torts, Full Faith and Credit, etc.), the professors are going to explain it to you anyway. "Oh, Professor ____ didn't cover that (yet)? Well, essentially it is... Anyway, so back to..."

For instance, my Con Law professor asked us if we covered a particular topic in Civil Procedure and the class told him we didn't; he gave enough of a primer to understand what he was saying in context and moved on. Similar with Property asking us if we remembered something from Contracts (which we actually didn't cover despite finishing it all in Fall).

I will say I think some classes ought to be a year long, like Contracts; it is such a dense subject that rushing through it (even if you are technically getting the same amount of hours of coverage) does you a disservice. This is all moot in the end: everyone in your section is being rushed through it and the curve should reflect it, and you will be relearning this while studying for the bar anyway.

Something related to the Bar that DS mentioned a few times in the past: we beat UCLA in bar passage rates in the most recent administration of the test. My Torts professor has a theory that this is due to LLS having closed book exams (and, thus, marginally higher retention of the material).

Also, Barrister's Ball (a.k.a. Law School Prom) is coming up in 2 weeks. Totally irrelevant; just letting y'all know that you have that to look forward to in a year.

I think it makes sense how they plan the 1L classes like that. But I could definitely see how having a dense subject like Contracts spread out over two semesters could be beneficial to understanding. The curve would even everything out within a given section, but what about across sections, and even schools? I know you'll (re)learn everything in the bar course, but I guess I feel that as much as possible should be covered in the classroom. I guess, in the end it doesn't matter, because we will in fact learn it all studying for the bar, and the playing field will level out. About the bar passage rates: I've heard the same thing from other LLS professors, who've said that since LLS changed their policies (I guess making exams closed book), the school's bar passage rate has gotten better and better every year essentially. So, there is probably a strong correlation between closed book exams and better retention of the material, and thus an easier time on the bar.

to Danteshek: 50 transfers?! That is a huge number! Do people drop out after 1L, which helps to offset the number of transfers in a given year?

Yep. Loyola takes a lot of transfers. A few 1Ls drop out, but not a significant number.

Danteshek wrote:Yep. Loyola takes a lot of transfers. A few 1Ls drop out, but not a significant number.

Pretty interesting, thanks. Just curious... Do you know how many people transfer from evening to day?

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:Yep. Loyola takes a lot of transfers. A few 1Ls drop out, but not a significant number.

Pretty interesting, thanks. Just curious... Do you know how many people transfer from evening to day?

Not sure how many, but I've definitely met quite a few. My feeling is that it isn't hard to do if you do well in your classes. If you do poorly you would probably benefit from the slower pace.

Danteshek wrote:

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:Yep. Loyola takes a lot of transfers. A few 1Ls drop out, but not a significant number.

Pretty interesting, thanks. Just curious... Do you know how many people transfer from evening to day?

Not sure how many, but I've definitely met quite a few. My feeling is that it isn't hard to do if you do well in your classes. If you do poorly you would probably benefit from the slower pace.

Yeah, that is what I've heard. I'm still just surprised how many transfers there are period. I think it is pretty good Loyola gets that many transfers from wherever. I'd like to think LLS is pretty desirable place to go! With all the transfers though, a given year's class grows by quite a bit. What do you think are the effects of this on 2L and 3L rankings and percent cut-offs (vs. 1L)?

[

Judge Philip Banks wrote: The curve would even everything out within a given section, but what about across sections, and even schools?

For the purposes of exam grades, as you may have heard, students are curved against each other in their own sections, per class. Being the top person in your sections ≠ X% of the class. Your GPA (weighted by credit hour) is determined at the end of the year. In May/June, all GPAs are calculated to a grander curve, which comprises your actual class rank.

As for "across schools..." I don't quite follow you, since you aren't compared to students in other schools for purposes of grading.

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:Yep. Loyola takes a lot of transfers. A few 1Ls drop out, but not a significant number.

Pretty interesting, thanks. Just curious... Do you know how many people transfer from evening to day?

Not sure how many, but I've definitely met quite a few. My feeling is that it isn't hard to do if you do well in your classes. If you do poorly you would probably benefit from the slower pace.

Yeah, that is what I've heard. I'm still just surprised how many transfers there are period. I think it is pretty good Loyola gets that many transfers from wherever. I'd like to think LLS is pretty desirable place to go! With all the transfers though, a given year's class grows by quite a bit. What do you think are the effects of this on 2L and 3L rankings and percent cut-offs (vs. 1L)?

I don't think the effect is significant. Transfers are not ranked until the end of 2L.

NoleinNY wrote:[

Judge Philip Banks wrote: The curve would even everything out within a given section, but what about across sections, and even schools?

For the purposes of exam grades, as you may have heard, students are curved against each other in their own sections, per class. Being the top person in your sections ≠ X% of the class. Your GPA (weighted by credit hour) is determined at the end of the year. In May/June, all GPAs are calculated to a grander curve, which comprises your actual class rank.

As for "across schools..." I don't quite follow you, since you aren't compared to students in other schools for purposes of grading.

Sorry. I guess what I was trying to say was that the curve makes the grading within a section a level playing field. But are students that, say, had Contracts only for one semester (for example) at a disadvantage knowledge- and breadth-wise going up against students from outside their section (e.g. other sections and students at other schools) on the bar exam, excluding the fact that everyone has the opportunity to (re)learn everything during their bar prep?

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

NoleinNY wrote:[

Judge Philip Banks wrote: The curve would even everything out within a given section, but what about across sections, and even schools?

For the purposes of exam grades, as you may have heard, students are curved against each other in their own sections, per class. Being the top person in your sections ≠ X% of the class. Your GPA (weighted by credit hour) is determined at the end of the year. In May/June, all GPAs are calculated to a grander curve, which comprises your actual class rank.

As for "across schools..." I don't quite follow you, since you aren't compared to students in other schools for purposes of grading.

Sorry. I guess what I was trying to say was that the curve makes the grading within a section a level playing field. But are students that, say, had Contracts only for one semester (for example) at a disadvantage knowledge- and breadth-wise going up against students from outside their section (e.g. other sections and students at other schools) on the bar exam, excluding the fact that everyone has the opportunity to (re)learn everything during their bar prep?

By the time you study for the bar, you won't remember a single thing from 1L. Don't worry. You are over thinking it.

Danteshek wrote:
By the time you study for the bar, you won't remember a single thing from 1L. Don't worry. You are over thinking it.

Yeah, I know you are right haha. I guess then, while we're on the subject of the bar and bar materials, when do you guys think you should purchase the bar prep course (BarBri I would assume)? I think you can get some beneficial materials by purchasing it early, as well as a lower price, but I have also heard this argued against.

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:
By the time you study for the bar, you won't remember a single thing from 1L. Don't worry. You are over thinking it.

Yeah, I know you are right haha. I guess then, while we're on the subject of the bar and bar materials, when do you guys think you should purchase the bar prep course (BarBri I would assume)? I think you can get some beneficial materials by purchasing it early, as well as a lower price, but I have also heard this argued against.

Don't think about this yet.

Does any one anything about the medici apartments any students that might live there? Or how easy it is to find a roommate for your first year?

Danteshek wrote:

Judge Philip Banks wrote:

Danteshek wrote:
By the time you study for the bar, you won't remember a single thing from 1L. Don't worry. You are over thinking it.

Yeah, I know you are right haha. I guess then, while we're on the subject of the bar and bar materials, when do you guys think you should purchase the bar prep course (BarBri I would assume)? I think you can get some beneficial materials by purchasing it early, as well as a lower price, but I have also heard this argued against.

Don't think about this yet.

Not even as a 1L?