Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions Forum

[NoleinNY]

Would love some input on professors in my section if anyone has any!

Section 1: Pillsbury (Crim), Goldberg (Civ Pro), Atik (Contracts), Seto (Property)

Also, is there a way to figure out which books we will need (aside from emailing the professor?) I'd like to order mine online to try and save some cash. Thanks!

PMed you. If you live in LA, go to LA Law books across the street from the school. That guy will tell you what books you need from what professors (including what supplements work best for them). He knows most of the professors really well and is always getting feedback from students; he is also less expensive than the school bookstore (although online is still probably cheaper).

[071816]

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[NoleinNY]

Would you recommend buying used books? What about older editions?

ETA: Do you have any idea if there is a copy of LEEWS in the library?

Used, if 1) there are no new editions and (if you are the type elwho want to learn how to pick info out of your reading material) 2) there is minimal underlining or highlighting. If you do get a previous edition, be advised that a few cases may be overturned or otherwise irrelevant. Case in point: our civil procedure book (and my hornbook) lack a few very important cases. My professor was aware of his, though, and handed out copies of the new cases.

As for leews, I dont think the library has a copy.

[Judge Philip Banks]

Would you recommend buying used books? What about older editions?

ETA: Do you have any idea if there is a copy of LEEWS in the library?

Used, if 1) there are no new editions and (if you are the type elwho want to learn how to pick info out of your reading material) 2) there is minimal underlining or highlighting. If you do get a previous edition, be advised that a few cases may be overturned or otherwise irrelevant. Case in point: our civil procedure book (and my hornbook) lack a few very important cases. My professor was aware of his, though, and handed out copies of the new cases.

As for leews, I dont think the library has a copy.

When did you get your books for fall, Nole? Did you wait until orientation or around that time, or get them earlier?

[NoleinNY]

Would you recommend buying used books? What about older editions?

ETA: Do you have any idea if there is a copy of LEEWS in the library?

Used, if 1) there are no new editions and (if you are the type elwho want to learn how to pick info out of your reading material) 2) there is minimal underlining or highlighting. If you do get a previous edition, be advised that a few cases may be overturned or otherwise irrelevant. Case in point: our civil procedure book (and my hornbook) lack a few very important cases. My professor was aware of his, though, and handed out copies of the new cases.

As for leews, I dont think the library has a copy.

When did you get your books for fall, Nole? Did you wait until orientation or around that time, or get them earlier?

Yeah, just after. I was a bit later than some classmates because I was short on funds. I am ashamed to say I didn't pick up my torts book until a week before classes, but that was because it was only available at graphics (my prof gave us a draft of a casebook he is working on.)

[Judge Philip Banks]

Would you recommend buying used books? What about older editions?

ETA: Do you have any idea if there is a copy of LEEWS in the library?

Used, if 1) there are no new editions and (if you are the type elwho want to learn how to pick info out of your reading material) 2) there is minimal underlining or highlighting. If you do get a previous edition, be advised that a few cases may be overturned or otherwise irrelevant. Case in point: our civil procedure book (and my hornbook) lack a few very important cases. My professor was aware of his, though, and handed out copies of the new cases.

As for leews, I dont think the library has a copy.

When did you get your books for fall, Nole? Did you wait until orientation or around that time, or get them earlier?

Yeah, just after. I was a bit later than some classmates because I was short on funds. I am ashamed to say I didn't pick up my torts book until a week before classes, but that was because it was only available at graphics (my prof gave us a draft of a casebook he is working on.)

Thanks Nole. I was thinking about trying to buy as much as possible online, but I am just worried the books might get to me too late...

[NoleinNY]

No problem. You should be fine unless amazon or fed Ex screws up the delivery.

[Judge Philip Banks]

I'd order via Amazon now, but at least one of my classes doesn't have a casebook picked yet according to the LLS online bookstore. I am also worried that whatever the online bookstore lists for my classes isn't finalized. I suppose I could email professors directly for book lists and syllabi, as it appears others have done... Hmm...

[Judge Philip Banks]

On your professors' exams, were you permitted to handwrite notes onto the exam itself (assuming a hard copy exam was handed out) or on scratch paper? (As opposed to having to type out notes.) If so, do you think the same is true of other professors' exams?

[NoleinNY]

On your professors' exams, were you permitted to handwrite notes onto the exam itself (assuming a hard copy exam was handed out) or on scratch paper? (As opposed to having to type out notes.) If so, do you think the same is true of other professors' exams?

Every exam was the same in the following respects:

A hard copy of the exam is handed out with 3 pages of scrap paper stapled in the back. You write whatever he heck you want on the scrap paper and fact pattern. None of it counts toward your answer except for what you type in examsoft or write in a bluebook. Some professors who have mutiple choice questions (but not all profs do this) sill let you point out a question is ambiguous. If you give a brief sentence about why, you MAY get half credit.

[Judge Philip Banks]

On your professors' exams, were you permitted to handwrite notes onto the exam itself (assuming a hard copy exam was handed out) or on scratch paper? (As opposed to having to type out notes.) If so, do you think the same is true of other professors' exams?

Every exam was the same in the following respects:

A hard copy of the exam is handed out with 3 pages of scrap paper stapled in the back. You write whatever he heck you want on the scrap paper and fact pattern. None of it counts toward your answer except for what you type in examsoft or write in a bluebook. Some professors who have mutiple choice questions (but not all profs do this) sill let you point out a question is ambiguous. If you give a brief sentence about why, you MAY get half credit.

Thanks. Good to know you can write on the exam. It's also pretty cool you can point out an ambiguity in a multiple choice question (for some profs at least), even if you only get half credit (better than zero, right?).

[seaguy2010]

In the student handbook, is says that at least 25% of the grade doesn't come from the final. Do midterms account for the other 25%?

[Judge Philip Banks]

In the student handbook, is says that at least 25% of the grade doesn't come from the final. Do midterms account for the other 25%?

It would depend on the prof, wouldn't it? I would guess most profs give a midterm that accounts for that 25% or more. Some profs, in addition to a midterm, give (writing) assignments that account for another chunk of the grade, thus decreasing the weight of the final. The latter is probably more for year-long classes, and semester-long classes probably just have a midterm (25%) and final (75%), plus +/-3% participation. [Disclaimer: This is based on my own profs, so I suppose it could vary for different profs, but I bet this is roughly the way it works across the board.]

[seaguy2010]

When you say based on your own profs, does that mean that you have been able to access the class information? If you could, please let me know where we can get to that.

Also, I have a couple other questions about exams:

*How is the curve determined on basis of the different sections? Since there are different professors teaching each section, how is the overall yearly curve formulated?
*Regardless of professors, are exams pretty typical throughout (standard IRAC type model applying)?

[Judge Philip Banks]

When you say based on your own profs, does that mean that you have been able to access the class information? If you could, please let me know where we can get to that.

Also, I have a couple other questions about exams:

*How is the curve determined on basis of the different sections? Since there are different professors teaching each section, how is the overall yearly curve formulated?
*Regardless of professors, are exams pretty typical throughout (standard IRAC type model applying)?

Loyola should have emailed you at least twice with a link that includes your profs. They also sent you a separate email at least twice with a link to the orientation site, which shows your section.

For your curve question, read section 5.0 in the student handbook. Everything is explained clearly there.

The type of exam definitely depends on the professor. Every prof is different. Some have multiple choice or short answer questions on their exams (obviously not issue-spotters). Others just have straight up issue-spotters.

[NoleinNY]

When you say based on your own profs, does that mean that you have been able to access the class information? If you could, please let me know where we can get to that.

Also, I have a couple other questions about exams:

*How is the curve determined on basis of the different sections? Since there are different professors teaching each section, how is the overall yearly curve formulated?
*Regardless of professors, are exams pretty typical throughout (standard IRAC type model applying)?

Loyola should have emailed you at least twice with a link that includes your profs. They also sent you a separate email at least twice with a link to the orientation site, which shows your section.

For your curve question, read section 5.0 in the student handbook. Everything is explained clearly there.

The type of exam definitely depends on the professor. Every prof is different. Some have multiple choice or short answer questions on their exams (obviously not issue-spotters). Others just have straight up issue-spotters.

A few caveats: It is very rarely multiple choice OR short answer. The most common form of testing is a 3 hour exam. It could be one long issue spotter, one long hypo with specific questions, 2-3 shorter hypos with 1-3 questions each, etc. Multiple choice, if included, will 99.9999%* of the time be in addition to some form of essay question.

How they test you in the above ways is what separates one proff from another. I had one who LOVED if we separated each and every issue and step with headings. I had another who preferred essay-like paragraphs with only distinctions being between large issues or individual questions.

*: Professor Nockleby, last year, gave our section 4 exams over the course of a full year course. Before you start readying the cyanide capsules, let me explain. The first exam was based on only intentional torts. Half of the grade was on multiple choice. The other half (unlike every other professor in the school, to my knowledge) was NOT a short answer question/essay.

Rather, he gave a fact pattern based on a note case [a case mentioned in the questions and hypos section following an assigned reading] and asked us to write a well constructed "issue statement." He will explain to you what he wants, so don't worry if you can't figure it out now. That is the only time I have ever heard of a professor giving a multiple choice portion without an essay. BTW, the test was worth about 10% of your total grade. The other two midterms we had were also about 10-15% of our grade, with the rest of our grade riding on the final.

[seaguy2010]

Great, thank you Judge Philips and Nolein for the help !

[NoleinNY]

No problem, Seaguy...

to Gothamm and iamKristiehi:

I hope you've liked civ pro so far.... because if it's going to take that long to explain Pennoyer (a case so unimportant to the exam it isn't funny) it's going to be a long semester haha.

[seaguy2010]

When you say based on your own profs, does that mean that you have been able to access the class information? If you could, please let me know where we can get to that.

Also, I have a couple other questions about exams:

*How is the curve determined on basis of the different sections? Since there are different professors teaching each section, how is the overall yearly curve formulated?
*Regardless of professors, are exams pretty typical throughout (standard IRAC type model applying)?

Loyola should have emailed you at least twice with a link that includes your profs. They also sent you a separate email at least twice with a link to the orientation site, which shows your section.

For your curve question, read section 5.0 in the student handbook. Everything is explained clearly there.

The type of exam definitely depends on the professor. Every prof is different. Some have multiple choice or short answer questions on their exams (obviously not issue-spotters). Others just have straight up issue-spotters.

A few caveats: It is very rarely multiple choice OR short answer. The most common form of testing is a 3 hour exam. It could be one long issue spotter, one long hypo with specific questions, 2-3 shorter hypos with 1-3 questions each, etc. Multiple choice, if included, will 99.9999%* of the time be in addition to some form of essay question.

How they test you in the above ways is what separates one proff from another. I had one who LOVED if we separated each and every issue and step with headings. I had another who preferred essay-like paragraphs with only distinctions being between large issues or individual questions.

*: Professor Nockleby, last year, gave our section 4 exams over the course of a full year course. Before you start readying the cyanide capsules, let me explain. The first exam was based on only intentional torts. Half of the grade was on multiple choice. The other half (unlike every other professor in the school, to my knowledge) was NOT a short answer question/essay.

Rather, he gave a fact pattern based on a note case [a case mentioned in the questions and hypos section following an assigned reading] and asked us to write a well constructed "issue statement." He will explain to you what he wants, so don't worry if you can't figure it out now. That is the only time I have ever heard of a professor giving a multiple choice portion without an essay. BTW, the test was worth about 10% of your total grade. The other two midterms we had were also about 10-15% of our grade, with the rest of our grade riding on the final.

When learning the materials, did you find flashcards to be helpful? A couple profs want us to mention cases in our exams to support our rules. I was thinking of making quick flashcards with the case on one side and then the relevant rule/quick policy points on the other.

[NoleinNY]

Personally, I never used flash cards, but that's just how I studied. My old roommate used flash cards and I think he found them beneficial.

[NoleinNY]

Figured I'd bump this and give an update.

Things are decidedly mixed on the job front. I know a few people with offers, some from the small and midsized firms they worked at last summer, one with a V100 from OCI. I had an interview with a federal government gig, but haven't gotten word back yet. Not holding my breath.... I might start RAing for a professor who is THE man in an area of law I'm interested in, so we'll see what happens. Still hustling.

As for academics, things feel sooooooooo much easier this time around. That might just be me, but I'm sweating less and sleeping more. I know I have one friend who is freaking out about his work load, but that is because he scheduled two heavy upper-division writing classes at once.

[Danteshek]

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[sienna.ann]

Any updates on the job prospects ?

[NoleinNY]

Any updates on the job prospects ?

For myself or in general? I am set for my 2L summer and couldn't be happier. I feel like I outperformed what my class rank would indicate I should be doing. Not BigLaw or anything, but it definitely fits my long term goal. I know for my friends, it's a mixed bag. I don't go around asking everyone what they're doing for the summer (just in case they're having a hard time about it)... but from what I gather I know a small handful of people with big law, a lot of people in mid-to-small firms, and an equal amount of people still searching. Some of that third group are having varied degrees of success: anywhere from really good shot at landing something good to oh crap. That group also makes up a wide range of the academic spectrum, from law review to barely getting by. Employment's a crap shoot.

I've noticed the biggest game changer in all of that (outside of stellar grades or connections, of course) is any relevant work experience. Not necessarily the oft-touted "real world post undergrad IB/finance" background, either (although it does help); a maligned "K-JD" student can make a huge impact on their job search by having that one thing on their resume that sets them apart from the crowd. A friend of mine, for example, is currently working for a government entity that specializes in a very niche area of law. This person landed that position, in large part, due to an internship s/he once held back in undergrad; from this current gig, a whole swath of opportunities are opening up for the summer.

[Aeroneous]

First of all, thanks for all the great info in this thread.

Sifting through all the pages I saw one quick mention of Loyola's clinical programs but no real discussion. I noticed that compared to its peer schools, LLS has quite a few more to offer. Have you taken part in any of these programs or discussed them with classmates who have? I'd love to hear what the general opinion is on them. Although I'm sure they're no substitute for experience, they still seem like a great opportunity.