Texas 1L taking questions, 2010-'11 edition

[JazzOne]

Thanks for the post. That helped explain alot. So in retrospect, you dont think UT is that much worse than other low T14's/VANDY and UCLA, youre just saying that its tough everywhere. Correct?

No problem. I didn't mean to come off like I was bashing UT. I love UT, and I think it is one of the best values on the LS market. I was bashing the entire industry. I believe that the entire legal education industry has been complicit in a massive fraud on potential law students. They have been cooking the books by reporting employment statistics that are based on insufficient (or misleading) data. Perhaps some schools have been more honest than others, but the faulty stats have tainted them all in my opinion. This didn't get a lot of attention when the legal field was booming, but now that the economy has crashed, the deception has become painfully obvious.

I heard these allegations prior to law school, but I didn't believe them. Who was I going to believe? A respected law school? Or a cheap ass scam blogger website? I believed the law school. But guess what? The law schools want something from you. They have a reason to be dishonest. The scam bloggers don't want a damn thing from you. They have less incentive to deceive. I received some great advice from a guy on JDU: "Never believe someone who is trying to impress you." Well, the law schools are trying to impress you.

So I went to law school all starry eyed. I rocked my classes first year, and I figured I was on my way to a V50 job. Then OCI came around, and it rocked my world. I'm on Law Review; I am a member of a very selective legal writing board; I'm in the top 10% of my class; and I went to the semi-finals of moot court. I'm golden right? Wrong. I nearly struck out at OCI. I got no V100 offers. I can't really complain because I ended up getting an offer at a litigation boutique that pays above market salary, but I was really sweating for a couple months.

I honestly don't know what our placement stats are. I based my figure on my experience and those of my friends. It seems like everyone on Law Review got biglaw if they wanted it. I also know people who missed law review and still got biglaw, but they were just outside the top 10% or they had killer personalities (i.e., interviewing skills).

I think our placement stats are comparable to the lower T14 and UCLA. For some reason, Vandy consistently places better than its ranking suggests (possibly because they have a much smaller class than UT). I sometimes regret that I didn't apply to Vandy. Other than that, I'm quite happy at UT. However, I think the legal education industry is in serious need of some oversight, and I would be skeptical of any job placement statistics.

Good luck. This field is brutal, and OCI breaks a lot of people. I just went through OCI last semester, so I'm probably a bit jaded. One last comment and I'll get off my soap box: Most UT students are shooting for biglaw in Texas. That's another reason why I suggested that top third wasn't high enough. It's a little tougher to get jobs in New York. Our economy in Texas is doing well, and Texas firms recruit heavily from UT. It's going to take a little more work to get noticed by firms' New York offices.

[JazzOne]

Are practice exams for 1L courses readily available in the library, directly from professors, or other sources? Thanks

They're available for download on the library's website for the past 10 or so years' worth. Beyond that, there's an archive in the library. Some professors don't provide past exams, though. In fact, one of my profs made us buy her sample exams.

lol

Please out this professor. That's absurd.

[BeachandRun23]

Thank you for the really detailed post jazzone. You are awesome. Best of luck to you!

[BeachandRun23]

I think our placement stats are comparable to the lower T14 and UCLA. For some reason, Vandy consistently places better than its ranking suggests (possibly because they have a much smaller class than UT). I sometimes regret that I didn't apply to Vandy. Other than that, I'm quite happy at UT. However, I think the legal education industry is in serious need of some oversight, and I would be skeptical of any job placement statistics.

You're right about vandy though. The law schools profile on here has them placing 34% into V100 summer associate positions and 49% into nlj250 positions. That was for the class of 2010. Not sure how they pulled that off. But of course, theyre competing in different markets. As you said a majority of UT students want to stay in texas. Vandy's students will go to LA, DC, NY, Atl, Tenn..etc to gobble up jobs wherever they are. Plus they have a small class size.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/vanderbi ... chool.html

[BeachandRun23]

One more post - sorry for so many. But you guys at UT do have really good clerkship stats. For last year I think about 50 students took clerkships. That's like ~12% of the class, and most of them seemed to be prestigous clerkships with district courts or circuit courts. Just another thing you can do with your JD degree I guess. Plus i'm also looking into government opportunities, and UT also seems to have a strong presence in the energy/oil industry and texas politics, correct?

[JazzOne]

I think our placement stats are comparable to the lower T14 and UCLA. For some reason, Vandy consistently places better than its ranking suggests (possibly because they have a much smaller class than UT). I sometimes regret that I didn't apply to Vandy. Other than that, I'm quite happy at UT. However, I think the legal education industry is in serious need of some oversight, and I would be skeptical of any job placement statistics.

You're right about vandy though. The law schools profile on here has them placing 34% into V100 summer associate positions and 49% into nlj250 positions. That was for the class of 2010. Not sure how they pulled that off. But of course, theyre competing in different markets. As you said a majority of UT students want to stay in texas. Vandy's students will go to LA, DC, NY, Atl, Tenn..etc to gobble up jobs wherever they are. Plus they have a small class size.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/vanderbi ... chool.html

That's incredible. I'm either completely off base in my estimation of UT's placement stats, or else UT is getting creamed by Vandy. Probably a little of both.

[de5igual]

I think our placement stats are comparable to the lower T14 and UCLA. For some reason, Vandy consistently places better than its ranking suggests (possibly because they have a much smaller class than UT). I sometimes regret that I didn't apply to Vandy. Other than that, I'm quite happy at UT. However, I think the legal education industry is in serious need of some oversight, and I would be skeptical of any job placement statistics.

You're right about vandy though. The law schools profile on here has them placing 34% into V100 summer associate positions and 49% into nlj250 positions. That was for the class of 2010. Not sure how they pulled that off. But of course, theyre competing in different markets. As you said a majority of UT students want to stay in texas. Vandy's students will go to LA, DC, NY, Atl, Tenn..etc to gobble up jobs wherever they are. Plus they have a small class size.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/vanderbi ... chool.html

That's incredible. I'm either completely off base in my estimation of UT's placement stats, or else UT is getting creamed by Vandy. Probably a little of both.

I think you are underestimating UT's placement stats by a bit. I was talking with my society mentor earlier in the semester, thinking it was basically top 10% or bust, but he assured me that as long as you're top 30% or so, you'll be able to get your foot in the door at most firms. Then, it's completely up to how well you sell yourself. By no means am I saying that 30% is a sure thing, but chances are good at that point.

[JazzOne]

I think our placement stats are comparable to the lower T14 and UCLA. For some reason, Vandy consistently places better than its ranking suggests (possibly because they have a much smaller class than UT). I sometimes regret that I didn't apply to Vandy. Other than that, I'm quite happy at UT. However, I think the legal education industry is in serious need of some oversight, and I would be skeptical of any job placement statistics.

You're right about vandy though. The law schools profile on here has them placing 34% into V100 summer associate positions and 49% into nlj250 positions. That was for the class of 2010. Not sure how they pulled that off. But of course, theyre competing in different markets. As you said a majority of UT students want to stay in texas. Vandy's students will go to LA, DC, NY, Atl, Tenn..etc to gobble up jobs wherever they are. Plus they have a small class size.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/vanderbi ... chool.html

That's incredible. I'm either completely off base in my estimation of UT's placement stats, or else UT is getting creamed by Vandy. Probably a little of both.

I think you are underestimating UT's placement stats by a bit. I was talking with my society mentor earlier in the semester, thinking it was basically top 10% or bust, but he assured me that as long as you're top 30% or so, you'll be able to get your foot in the door at most firms. Then, it's completely up to how well you sell yourself. By no means am I saying that 30% is a sure thing, but chances are good at that point.

I just don't believe that. My argument was that top 10% was safe and about 20% of my class got biglaw. I know too many people in the top third who have no job at all, let alone biglaw. Perhaps the number is somewhere near 25% for biglaw. For what it's worth, I know someone on Law Review with no offer. Hopefully, things will pick up for your class.

[de5igual]

Are practice exams for 1L courses readily available in the library, directly from professors, or other sources? Thanks

They're available for download on the library's website for the past 10 or so years' worth. Beyond that, there's an archive in the library. Some professors don't provide past exams, though. In fact, one of my profs made us buy her sample exams.

lol

Please out this professor. That's absurd.

--LinkRemoved--

[TatNurner]

Thanks for insights to all those answering, especially JazzOne, really helpful.

[JazzOne]

Are practice exams for 1L courses readily available in the library, directly from professors, or other sources? Thanks

They're available for download on the library's website for the past 10 or so years' worth. Beyond that, there's an archive in the library. Some professors don't provide past exams, though. In fact, one of my profs made us buy her sample exams.

lol

Please out this professor. That's absurd.

--LinkRemoved--

I've heard she's a really good professor, so I guess she deserves a pass. Did you enjoy that class?

[JazzOne]

Thanks for insights to all those answering, especiall JazzOne, really helpful. This isnt directly related to Texas U, but I'm hoping you may have heard some things or may be able to shed some light.

In the end my partner and I want to settle in Texas, because we have a daughter and it just makes more economic sense. My partner is HYS and currently works at a V10 in NYC, and all things going well I will hopefully follow the same path or something close to those lines.

Anyways, as I say, we both have our hearts set on Texas for the long term, and I'm wandering how easy it is to lateral into the legal market there? I keep reading in other threads about how Texas is very insular and that if you have no ties to the region its rather difficult to break in? How accurate is this?

It's too bad his firm doesn't have an office in Texas. That's a really tough question for us to answer. I don't know of anyone on this forum who has experience with a lateral to Texas. Most of us are still in law school. Good luck. Your partner obviously knows how to land a good job, so I think you two will be just fine.

[littlebit]

I'm a 3L at Texas. Almost everyone I know in the top 30-35%, who had something to bring to the table and worked hard to land a spot, had a SA biglaw position last summer (or two and split the summer) and has a firm offer post grad. Yes, there are those in the top of the class that were no offered and one that I know of in particular is on law review but this had nothing to do with the economy. That still leaves 65 -70% of the class with midlevel firms, or other options but some folks never intended to practice law (I know, go figure) or decided to do something else the summer before 3L (had babies, went abroad, summer school, etc.) they have had a much harder time securing a job.

[JazzOne]

I'm a 3L at Texas. Almost everyone I know in the top 30-35%, who had something to bring to the table and worked hard to land a spot, had a SA biglaw position last summer (or two and split the summer) and has a firm offer post grad. Yes, there are those in the top of the class that were no offered and one that I know of in particular is on law review but this had nothing to do with the economy. That still leaves 65 -70% of the class with midlevel firms, or other options but some folks never intended to practice law (I know, go figure) or decided to do something else the summer before 3L (had babies, went abroad, summer school, etc.) they have had a much harder time securing a job.

Thank you for posting this. I catch a lot of flack for my comments at times, but I'm merely relaying my observations. I was hoping some others would add their own thoughts for a broader perspective. I don't agree with your position, but my perspective is limited to the experiences of me and my friends, and that's not a large enough sample to draw definitive conclusions.

[lisjjen]

I'm a 3L at Texas. Almost everyone I know in the top 30-35%, who had something to bring to the table and worked hard to land a spot, had a SA biglaw position last summer (or two and split the summer) and has a firm offer post grad. Yes, there are those in the top of the class that were no offered and one that I know of in particular is on law review but this had nothing to do with the economy. That still leaves 65 -70% of the class with midlevel firms, or other options but some folks never intended to practice law (I know, go figure) or decided to do something else the summer before 3L (had babies, went abroad, summer school, etc.) they have had a much harder time securing a job.

What happens to the bottom half of a class? I'm looking at UT very seriously, but I want to know what all of my options are if worse comes to worse.

[littlebit]

What happens to the bottom half of a class? I'm looking at UT very seriously, but I want to know what all of my options are if worse comes to worse.[/quote]

I can't answer this. I know some in the bottom half that have jobs. (not biglaw) I assume the ones not talking about it probably are still looking. Talk to Career Services, I have always found them helpful. I know that might not be everyones opinion, but they not only helped me get SA positions, but before the formal offers were made to the SA's, they had me scheduled for interviews (biglaw) for 3L OCI. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. I realize my glasses may be a tad rosy, but I did work my butt off making sure I had good work experience my 1L summer and followed up with every contact I met along the way. I worked on my interview skills, if you want someone to pay you 160K per year you need to be polished, a spit shine just won't work. All that being said, if you want to be a lawyer, I believe UT Law is a great place.

[clevermoose]

Does Texas give out any need-based grant aid?

[JazzOne]

I'm a 3L at Texas. Almost everyone I know in the top 30-35%, who had something to bring to the table and worked hard to land a spot, had a SA biglaw position last summer (or two and split the summer) and has a firm offer post grad. Yes, there are those in the top of the class that were no offered and one that I know of in particular is on law review but this had nothing to do with the economy. That still leaves 65 -70% of the class with midlevel firms, or other options but some folks never intended to practice law (I know, go figure) or decided to do something else the summer before 3L (had babies, went abroad, summer school, etc.) they have had a much harder time securing a job.

What happens to the bottom half of a class? I'm looking at UT very seriously, but I want to know what all of my options are if worse comes to worse.

I honestly don't know either. People at the bottom of the class don't go around advertising their grades or job prospects. I know who's at the top of my class because they're on Law Review or one particular secondary journal. The top students are invited to join the Legal Research Board, or they excel in mock trial or moot court. It's pretty difficult to track what's going on at the bottom of the class.

However, I will say this: Our Career Services Office does an outstanding job hosting OCI. We actually had two separate rounds of OCI. The first occurred before the fall semester started, and the firms were mostly biglaw. The second round was about a month into the semester, and it was composed mostly of smaller firms. I found that to be a very effective way to organize OCI because we were able to shoot for the big firms, and if things didn't work out, we got a second bite at the apple with the smaller firms. I actually landed a job at the second OCI with a small Austin firm, and they impressed me so much that I decided to split my summer between the small firm and my prior biglaw offer. I have met with several counselors in the CSO, and they were terrific. We also have a 1L OCI in the spring. I hear a lot of bad things about the CSOs at other schools, but ours is great.

The lower your grades on, the more you will have to rely on networking and contacts to get a job. Having said that, there are PLENTY of opportunities to network. If I could go back and do 1L all over again, I would participate more in networking/social events.

[lisjjen]

I worked on my interview skills, if you want someone to pay you 160K per year you need to be polished, a spit shine just won't work. All that being said, if you want to be a lawyer, I believe UT Law is a great place.

Actually, the guy that repairs leather products for our family told us that a spit shine (wet polish job) is the best polish you can put on a shoe.

But seriously, thanks for the input - both you and JazzOne. From what I've seen, UT Law does look like a great place to be a lawyer, plus it's a hell of a lot warmer than where I'm at right now.

The lower your grades on, the more you will have to rely on networking and contacts to get a job. Having said that, there are PLENTY of opportunities to network. If I could go back and do 1L all over again, I would participate more in networking/social events.

I love networking. Seriously. Working with clientele is part of why I want to go into law.

[BeachandRun23]

I worked on my interview skills, if you want someone to pay you 160K per year you need to be polished, a spit shine just won't work. All that being said, if you want to be a lawyer, I believe UT Law is a great place.

Actually, the guy that repairs leather products for our family told us that a spit shine (wet polish job) is the best polish you can put on a shoe.

But seriously, thanks for the input - both you and JazzOne. From what I've seen, UT Law does look like a great place to be a lawyer, plus it's a hell of a lot warmer than where I'm at right now.

This. It seems to be on par with the lower T14 (or atleast GULC) and it has a great reputation, plus it is located in a fantastic location. Not only is the weather warm, and austin a lively, young city, with a good COL, but it is also located in the state capital (political/government opporunities). I am excited!

[JazzOne]

I worked on my interview skills, if you want someone to pay you 160K per year you need to be polished, a spit shine just won't work. All that being said, if you want to be a lawyer, I believe UT Law is a great place.

Actually, the guy that repairs leather products for our family told us that a spit shine (wet polish job) is the best polish you can put on a shoe.

But seriously, thanks for the input - both you and JazzOne. From what I've seen, UT Law does look like a great place to be a lawyer, plus it's a hell of a lot warmer than where I'm at right now.

This. It seems to be on par with the lower T14 (or atleast GULC) and it has a great reputation, plus it is located in a fantastic location. Not only is the weather warm, and austin a lively, young city, with a good COL, but it is also located in the state capital (political/government opporunities). I am excited!

Austin is wonderful. I actually agreed to work half my summer at a small firm that pays much less than I could be making elsewhere just because I wanted to keep the option open of staying in Austin after law school.

[lisjjen]

Austin is wonderful. I actually agreed to work half my summer at a small firm that pays much less than I could be making elsewhere just because I wanted to keep the option open of staying in Austin after law school.

Don't get me wrong. I LOOOOOOVE barbecue and warm weather (I think there's even palm trees right?) but how wonderful is Austin? I mean, when you rank it against all the jazz clubs, cigar bars and symphony halls of say... Chicago, Philadelphia or even sunny L.A., where does it stand?

This is not a rhetorical question. If you tell me it stands toe to toe with some of the others I mentioned, I'll send in my seat deposit tomorrow.

[JazzOne]

Austin is wonderful. I actually agreed to work half my summer at a small firm that pays much less than I could be making elsewhere just because I wanted to keep the option open of staying in Austin after law school.

Don't get me wrong. I LOOOOOOVE barbecue and warm weather (I think there's even palm trees right?) but how wonderful is Austin? I mean, when you rank it against all the jazz clubs, cigar bars and symphony halls of say... Chicago, Philadelphia or even sunny L.A., where does it stand?

This is not a rhetorical question. If you tell me it stands toe to toe with some of the others I mentioned, I'll send in my seat deposit tomorrow.

There is a time and a place for everything. Austin does not have the kind of entertainment you'll find in LA or Chicago. If I were choosing a vacation destination, Austin would not top the list. But as far as a city to live in during law school, Austin gets an A+ from me. It is a very young town with quirky restaurants. The city has a very accepting vibe, so no one should feel out of place here, no matter where you're from. The weather is great; I was outside doing sparklers last night at midnight in short sleeves. The heat can be a little annoying, but I'm a skinny fellow, so I'd prefer that over freezing my balls off. The COL is very reasonable, and UT has a true state-school feel with no pretension. UT also has a large and loyal alumni base. The local music scene is a bit odd at first, but it's a fun culture, and it grew on me quickly. Austin is reasonably diverse, and although we have some traffic issues, Austin was ranked in the top 5 safest cities with more than 500K residents. The economy is cruising right along here, and Texas has no income tax. We get most of the major shows and concerts, and if not, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio are just a few hours away. We've got a bookstore and coffee shop on every other corner. Bicycling and exercising are popular activities here. This town is also very 420 friendly, if you're into that.

I have lived all around the world, outside Chicago, in Las Vegas, even in Beijing, but I prefer the pace of life here: not too fast, not too slow. I honestly wouldn't want to live in Chicago or LA, but everyone has his own preferences. I guess I'm just into barbecue, Mexican food, and women wearing boots.

[lisjjen]

...Bicycling and exercising are popular activities here...

... I guess I'm just into barbecue, Mexican food, and women wearing boots.

Keeps sounding better and better all the time. I've heard the bike thing before. Is it bike friendly enough that I could leave my car 2000 miles away? My brother lives in OKC and he was saying I would probably want a car in Austin.

[lawschoolman1]

Do any of you at UT know any JD's getting jobs at TPG or any of the private equity firms in Texas?