Top Law Schools

sarahhope82 wrote:Would it be crazy to commute 45 minutes from the East Bay?

People drive in from San Francisco and seem to have no real issues. Some carpool.

UnitarySpace wrote:Is there a social scene? My biggest reservation is that Palo Alto might be too boring.

Having lived in 2 big and very fun cities before coming here, I will tell you that Palo Alto is quite boring. However, the social scene is driven forward by your classmates. I think we manage to have a good time in spite of how little there is to do here. And if you're lucky, either you or someone you befriend will have a car. Then you get to do fun things like go into San Francisco or the beach or to wine country to blow off steam.

UnitarySpace wrote:Thanks for the quick response BioE. I'm excited about applying now!

I heard bars close early in Palo Alto. Is this true?

Since Palo Alto is in the suburbs, do you have to drive everywhere? How does this affect your ability to get drunk?

Yes and yes. Cabs are available, though - to be honest - I never really have any idea how they get there by the time I need one.

You won't get a ticket for drinking/being drunk on campus. If you're coming straight through and look young, you may get stopped for an ID check.

clevinger33 wrote:How long do you think it will take for your classmates to realize who you are, out you, and ridicule you behind your back as "that guy that posted the thread on TLS" on gchat every time you raise your hand/get cold-called?

There are about 5 people in my class who even know what TLS is. There are maybe 3 who post regularly enough to notice, and I doubt any of them care.

I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

I'm not going to be of much help. I submitted January 31st (stupid, yes.) and heard back about two weeks later. Submitting late in the season is risky, but the upshot is you don't have the insane waiting period.

aschup wrote:

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

I'm not going to be of much help. I submitted January 31st (stupid, yes.) and heard back about two weeks later. Submitting late in the season is risky, but the upshot is you don't have the insane waiting period.

Wow, that's awesome for you. Did you apply straight away for the joint degree, or did you wait until after 1L?

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

I submitted relatively early (mid-October), and didn't hear back until early March. Coincidentally (or was it?), I was accepted to my Master's program the day before I received the good word from Faye. I don't know when my peers were admitted, though, as no one really asks that question.

The one piece of advice I can give regarding waiting is to not stress over it. Don't look at TLS, don't obsess over LSN, etc. Just have fun, and let the good news come to you.

Enough procrastinating. Time to get back to LRW.

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

I submitted on the evening of November 4th, and heard on the morning of March 5th. I sent an LOCI in late January (notifying the school of s/o's admission to a Stanford grad program), and notified SLS of my retake score on March 1st. None of the 1Ls currently posting were waitlisted.

Tips for the wait? Have hobbies. I bought a pasta machine, a tortilla press, and tart pans.

I am also blowing off LRW.

Knockglock wrote:

aschup wrote:

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

I'm not going to be of much help. I submitted January 31st (stupid, yes.) and heard back about two weeks later. Submitting late in the season is risky, but the upshot is you don't have the insane waiting period.

Wow, that's awesome for you. Did you apply straight away for the joint degree, or did you wait until after 1L?

Straight away.

What kind of joint degrees are you guys doing? How many in the class are doing joint degrees?

Can you take any classes in other schools or only approved ones? I would love to do a MSCS, but I know admission to that is competitive and I am not sure I really want to prep to take the GRE. Maybe I can just take the classes I want to take?

I've heard that in the south bay, south of redwood city, it randomly snows really hard. My friend from cupertino was telling me about one time when he was in school, he was out running laps for PE and out of nowhere a blizzard popped in. His class had to take cover under some bleachers until it stopped a few minutes later. He said that's why basically everything in that area is one story, to prevent incidents like that.

My other friend from the area was at stanford for a high school debate tournament and he told me how amazingly large stanford's campus was. He said that stanford was able to procure such a large amount of prime commercial real estate through corporate sponsorships. Is that why so much of stanford looks like taco bell? I don't mean to insult stanfordians; i really dig the look (and I love taco bell), but it seems like that would be a conflict of interest.

That's too much work for trolling. Keep it up.

Is that your thing? Accusing people of being trolls?

UnitarySpace wrote:Is that your thing? Accusing people of being trolls?

Only when they are.

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

Applied Oct. 26, got in on Dec. 9th. I'll always remember it. Admissions seem to start soon after Dec. 1, so you're about 6 weeks away from the first folks hearing.

In contrast, I applied to HLS on Sept. 3, and was waitlisted on April 17. The wait can feel long, and I don't really have much advice on bearing it. Stay optimistic, be excited about schools you get into, and hope that things will work out. That's about all you can do.

Two of my roommates here (of 4) got in off the waitlist. I'd say I know at least 10 folks who have told me they were WL-admits, including one who got in about 2 weeks before classes began.

I was accepted in April about one week before ASW. The good news is, chances are if you're competitive at Stanford you'll be accepted to some other great schools earlier, so my suggestion is to try and focus on those acceptances rather than stressing about the schools that haven't let you in yet.

Kretzy wrote:

Knockglock wrote:I realize that this is a really small sample size, but i'm curious as to when you guys submitted/heard back. Were you all admitted straight away, or did anyone make it in off the waitlist?

Any tips for the long wait to hear back from schools?

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far!

Applied Oct. 26, got in on Dec. 9th. I'll always remember it. Admissions seem to start soon after Dec. 1, so you're about 6 weeks away from the first folks hearing.

In contrast, I applied to HLS on Sept. 3, and was waitlisted on April 17. The wait can feel long, and I don't really have much advice on bearing it. Stay optimistic, be excited about schools you get into, and hope that things will work out. That's about all you can do.

Two of my roommates here (of 4) got in off the waitlist. I'd say I know at least 10 folks who have told me they were WL-admits, including one who got in about 2 weeks before classes began.

Awesome Kretzky, that sounds amazing! Thanks for the advice. Did you choose your roommates or were you randomly assigned? Are you living in Munger?

Haribo wrote:I was accepted in April about one week before ASW. The good news is, chances are if you're competitive at Stanford you'll be accepted to some other great schools earlier, so my suggestion is to try and focus on those acceptances rather than stressing about the schools that haven't let you in yet.

Awesome Haribo! I looked at your LSN profile, you are definitely an amazing candidate and I can understand why you got accepted!

ETA: How is LRW done at SLS? Is it on the H/P/F system?

theadw wrote:Also here to answer questions.

If you have questions about applying alongside a significant other (mine is in a PhD program, not law school), ask away (the short answer is that it is very stressful).

Also, since this seems to be among the most commonly-asked questions on this board, no, you don't need targeted letters.



edit for bad bad grammar

Was this a SLS specific statement, or more general?

kwais wrote:

theadw wrote:Also here to answer questions.

If you have questions about applying alongside a significant other (mine is in a PhD program, not law school), ask away (the short answer is that it is very stressful).

Also, since this seems to be among the most commonly-asked questions on this board, no, you don't need targeted letters.



edit for bad bad grammar

Was this a SLS specific statement, or more general?

The latter, though Stanford was the only school to which I applied asking for targeted letters and devoting a special form to them. I think it's a lot of hooey if your recommenders aren't familiar with Stanford, but if a recommender of yours meets that criterion, well, go nuts.

Knockglock wrote:

Kretzy wrote:
Awesome Kretzky, that sounds amazing! Thanks for the advice. Did you choose your roommates or were you randomly assigned? Are you living in Munger?

ETA: How is LRW done at SLS? Is it on the H/P/F system?

So, 4 of us applied together, but we were split up. Me and another guy I applied with live across the hall from the other two guys we applied with (another poster here and a friend). I love Munger's proximity, but dislike other things...notably, the lack of internal lighting. Very few light fixtures. Sort of a pain.

LRW is H/P, just like every other class Our LRW class is a small section, which means 30 students. That means 9 will get an "H" (with 2 getting a "book award", which is a fancy term for "top students in the class"), and the rest will get "P"s. Like some have said before, it seems REALLY hard to get an RC (I haven't spoken with a 2L who has gotten one or knows someone who has gotten one), and virtually impossible to get an F.

The breakdown is 30% H, 70% P, with up to 1/15 getting a Book Award.

In theory, the book prizes can be awarded to anyone in the class. I suspect that they will go to students who earn Honors, though.

And Kretzy, the housing system screwed us. My 1L roommate and I got lunatic roommates, while you got three awesome 1Ls. I demand expectation damages.

2L here.

1. Quarters are amazing. IMO, way worth the negatives (primarily impacting your summer). You'll get to take more classes, which is a huge bonus whether or not you're doing a dual degree program. Don't underestimate this; employers (and judges in particular) care about what classes you take, and the more chances you get to both take the basics and interesting electives, the better. I'd wager that 2 Ps in classes your employer is interested in are worth 1H that they're not, even, so having more overall classes really is a huge bonus. I'd automatically give schools with quarter systems--Stanford, Chicago, and Washington as far as I know--big leg-ups on schools with semester systems. More exams wasn't an issue for me or for pretty much anyone I knew in the current 2L class, and we were much more screwed with Fed Lit than you will be (obviously nobody likes exams, but it's very manageable).

2. There is good affordable off-campus housing if you look hard enough. Menlo Park and College Terrace in particular have a fair number of good affordable options and are within easy biking distance of the law school (and if you're lucky, sometimes even within walking distances). Things are surprisingly expensive, but I do think they're better than DC/NY, although it might require some patience and skill with craigslist to find the right places.

3. Palo Alto is so-so. That said, the Bay Area is amazing (hands down, one of the best regions in the country) and totally makes up for whatever Palo Alto is lacking. Also, law school's important, and as a 2L, my biggest advice to you is not to use the number of bars within walking distance or whatnot as a factor. There are so many MUCH more important things: the programs at the school, the reputation of the school, and how much you like the students at the school, for example. If you're making a quality of life decision that's not based on how much you like the students at one particular school, I'd advise you to think hard about weather; being able to run outside at lunch year-round, or even read outside, is pretty enormously wonderful, and even if you're not a summer person (I'm not), you'll find things that surprise you that you love about the warmer environment here. All of this is coming from someone who's never lived in California outside of going to Stanford and will not stay in California after graduation: I'm not one of those crazy CA boosters you'll run into.

4. Stanford has a ton of married students or students who are practically married. The predominant social scene is still single students who recently graduated from college, so if that's your thing you have nothing to worry about, but there's a very strong very active community of "settled" students as well.

5. This is more for the 1Ls than anyone else: I've never heard of someone getting a Book Prize who didn't also get honors. I was hopeful that this wasn't the case my 1L year, but I think that's how these things work. Profs don't use it as a "my fav student award." Rather, they use it to reward the top examine-scorer(s) in virtually all cases. Anyways, you shouldn't be thinking about this. Just know that nobody gets anything lower than a P, and everyone gets good jobs... so do your best, but don't stress!

6. I really think if you get into Stanford you'd be crazy not to come. From my experience as a 1L on the job market, and now as a 2L, the only school that seems comparable employment-wise is Yale--and maybe Harvard--and students at both schools appear nowhere near as happy with their experience.

abl wrote:2L here.

1. Quarters are amazing. IMO, way worth the negatives (primarily impacting your summer). You'll get to take more classes, which is a huge bonus whether or not you're doing OCI. Don't underestimate this; employers (and judges in particular) care about what classes you take, and the more chances to both take the basics and interesting electives, the better. I'd automatically give schools with quarter systems--Stanford, Chicago, and Washington as far as I know--big leg-ups on schools with semester systems.

2. There is good affordable off-campus housing if you look hard enough. Menlo Park and College Terrace in particular have a fair number of good affordable options and are within easy biking distance of the law school (and if you're lucky, sometimes even within walking distances).

3. Palo Alto is so-so. That said, the Bay Area is amazing and totally makes up for whatever Palo Alto is lacking. Also, law school's important, and as a 2L, my biggest advice to you is not to use this as a factor. There are so many MUCH more important things; the programs at the school, the reputation of the school, and how much you like the students at the school, for example. If you're making a quality of life decision that's not based on how much you like the students at one particular school, I'd advise you to think hard about weather; being able to run outside at lunch year round, or even read outside, is pretty enormously wonderful, and even if you're not a summer person (I'm not), you'll find things that surprise you that you love about the warmer environment here.

4. Stanford has a ton of married students or students who are practically married. The predominant social scene is still single students who recently graduated from college, so if that's your thing you have nothing to worry about, but there's a very strong very active community of "settled" students as well.

5. This is more for the 1Ls than anyone else: I've never heard of someone getting a Book Prize who didn't also get honors. I was hopeful that this wasn't the case my 1L year, but I think that's how these things work. Profs don't use it as a "my fav student award." Rather, they use it to reward the top examine-scorer(s) in virtually all cases. Anyways, you shouldn't be thinking about this. Just know that nobody gets anything lower than a P, and everyone gets good jobs... so do your best, but don't stress!

Awesome post ABL. Thank you so much.

abl wrote:2L here.

6. I really think if you get into Stanford you'd be crazy not to come. From my experience as a 1L on the job market, and now as a 2L, the only school that seems comparable employment-wise is Yale--and maybe Harvard--and students at both schools appear nowhere near as happy with their experience.

Could you expand a bit on this, now that OCI has pretty much played out? I realize you don't have perfect information, but about how many students that wanted firm jobs do you think either a) struck out entirely or b) weren't able to crack their first-choice market at a good firm? How stressful were OCI's as a whole for your class? I'm especially interested in people trying to break into DC, if anyone has insight on that.

a). I don't know of anyone who struck out. This includes a number of people who had straight Ps. That's not to say that nobody struck out from SLS--I can imagine that some combination of awkward personality and poor bidding could have ended up in no offers, but I haven't personally heard of it.

b). This one's harder to answer, especially as people can be somewhat cagey about where they're hoping to go when the process is still unfolding, and then after the fact, I think everyone finds something to be happy about. That said, I'm pretty sure that everyone who I know of ended up in their top choice market (including SF, LA, Chicago, DC, NY, and Boston), and everyone ended up in a "good" firm (generally V100 or some sort of specialty boutique that they were aiming for). Did everyone end up at their overall #1? No, of course not! But with very few exceptions, people seem to be really pretty happy where they ended up--I get the sense that most people did end up at one of their top couple firms.

As one additional point: this might be more due to the state of the market today than anything else, but I don't get the sense that the top students from SLS exclusively or even mostly go to the highest ranked firms in Vault. There are a number of people who accepted offers at the most competitive firms (I'm not going to name firms names but you can guess) who I'm pretty sure didn't have grades in the top 25% and I'm pretty sure were not LR, although I have to admit I'm not positive about either as people don't brag at all here. On the flipside, there are plenty of people who are LR and/or are in the top 25% and for a variety of reasons ended up in less selective firms. My big takeaway from seeing this all unfold is that, for SLS at least, where you end up is based significantly on "fit." People here really seem to care about finding the right (and not necessarily most prestigious) firm for them, and as many firms are still pretty clueless about our grading system, many of even the most competitive firms don't penalize students for being median much, if at all, and instead look to find the right person for their openings.

...and I realized I didn't answer one of your questions. OCI was not stressful at all. If you're the sort of person who gets stressed out easily, sure, you'll probably be somewhat stressed--after all, you're basically interviewing for what will be your post-ls job, and there are no sure things. That said, the overall atmosphere at the school is incredibly relaxed, people are not competitive at all, and even the interviews themselves are super easy. I thought OCI was great--it was a series of 20 minute casual conversations that were largely not about law and frequently not even about my resume. Obviously that's going to differ a bit based on what market(s) you're interviewing for--some are more intense and I have heard of a couple students being asked about their grades--but the OCI "norm" is definitely a casual relaxed affair.

Thanks, abl. Reassuring to hear.

Unrelated question: I think I would be spending my summers on the East Coast. Is it possible to leave a car parked at Stanford all summer?