WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:11 pm

Joscellin wrote:
acr wrote:So you would agree then that a Torts MC test is utterly worthless?


That torts MC section saved my ass in that class. I fucked up that essay so hard :oops:



Yea, idk if this is Norwood, but I did fine. it was frustrating though. And they were pretty similar to the bar questions I am doing now. So whatever.

I think the list of classes I took with some MC was:

Torts
Commercial Law
Corps
Evidence

I may be forgetting something though.

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Joscellin
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Joscellin » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:16 pm

Yeah, we were talking Norwood.

bos93
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby bos93 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:35 pm

When do we find out about OCI/SEMW/MCGC interviews?

robert88
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby robert88 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:42 pm

bos93 wrote:When do we find out about OCI/SEMW/MCGC interviews?


Sometime next week

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:01 pm

Monday for OCI and MCGC, Friday for SEMW -- all appear to be on a rolling basis.

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pw ... ng2016.pdf

MtheG
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby MtheG » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:10 pm

Since WUSTL is preselect, everyone needs to manage their expectations. Only about 45 firms are actually conducting on campus interviews so don't expect to get 20+ screeners unless you are top 15% or better. Also remember that the off campus programs are really competitive because we share them with 3-4 other schools. At best there are maybe 700 interview spots for all of EIW and there are only like 600 for SEMW program in New York. I only got 3-4 at the SEMW last year (with median grades) and maybe 5-7 EIW screeners. With that said, I hustled and worked with CSO to get my resume in front of a bunch of firms and ended up with 15 or so screeners. Unless you are ranked, be prepared to hustle.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:08 pm

MtheG wrote:Since WUSTL is preselect, everyone needs to manage their expectations. Only about 45 firms are actually conducting on campus interviews so don't expect to get 20+ screeners unless you are top 15% or better. Also remember that the off campus programs are really competitive because we share them with 3-4 other schools. At best there are maybe 700 interview spots for all of EIW and there are only like 600 for SEMW program in New York. I only got 3-4 at the SEMW last year (with median grades) and maybe 5-7 EIW screeners. With that said, I hustled and worked with CSO to get my resume in front of a bunch of firms and ended up with 15 or so screeners. Unless you are ranked, be prepared to hustle.

That is actually a much better outcome than I had expected. Is that typical for median?

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:03 pm

RareExports wrote:
MtheG wrote:Since WUSTL is preselect, everyone needs to manage their expectations. Only about 45 firms are actually conducting on campus interviews so don't expect to get 20+ screeners unless you are top 15% or better. Also remember that the off campus programs are really competitive because we share them with 3-4 other schools. At best there are maybe 700 interview spots for all of EIW and there are only like 600 for SEMW program in New York. I only got 3-4 at the SEMW last year (with median grades) and maybe 5-7 EIW screeners. With that said, I hustled and worked with CSO to get my resume in front of a bunch of firms and ended up with 15 or so screeners. Unless you are ranked, be prepared to hustle.

That is actually a much better outcome than I had expected. Is that typical for median?


Yeah that's a lot of screeners for median. Maybe things are better now than they used to be, but a few years ago it wasn't uncommon for someone just outside top 1/3 to get 0 screeners at OCI/off-campus.

Also selections often won't come out all on the same day so just be aware of that.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:06 pm

Mass mail and network. Someone top 1/3 and LR already has a V15 primary market offer. And no, he/she is not the child of a partner. Although their case is unique and an exception (ties to city, ties to firm), it shows that non top 10% grades are not an auto ding.

robert88
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby robert88 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:33 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Mass mail and network. Someone top 1/3 and LR already has a V15 primary market offer. And no, he/she is not the child of a partner. Although their case is unique and an exception (ties to city, ties to firm), it shows that non top 10% grades are not an auto ding.


Wow, it is definitely impressive to get an offer this early, but with top third and LR, I don't think this kid will have a problem coming OCI time either.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:38 pm

robert88 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Mass mail and network. Someone top 1/3 and LR already has a V15 primary market offer. And no, he/she is not the child of a partner. Although their case is unique and an exception (ties to city, ties to firm), it shows that non top 10% grades are not an auto ding.


Wow, it is definitely impressive to get an offer this early, but with top third and LR, I don't think this kid will have a problem coming OCI time either.



V15 is probably quite a bit above their expected result, though. Top third, even w/ LR can be really iffy.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:10 pm

All else equal, how many screeners through EIW and off-campus programs, might one expect at:

Median
Top third
Top quarter
Top 20%
Top 15%
Top 10%

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:08 am

robert88 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Mass mail and network. Someone top 1/3 and LR already has a V15 primary market offer. And no, he/she is not the child of a partner. Although their case is unique and an exception (ties to city, ties to firm), it shows that non top 10% grades are not an auto ding.


Wow, it is definitely impressive to get an offer this early, but with top third and LR, I don't think this kid will have a problem coming OCI time either.


Top 1/3 at WUSTL really isn't that great of a place to be. Plenty of people in that grade range strike out every year, even with LR. Really nobody can afford to be complacent, though, even with much better grades.

RareExports wrote:All else equal, how many screeners through EIW and off-campus programs, might one expect at:

Median
Top third
Top quarter
Top 20%
Top 15%
Top 10%


Tough to answer this precisely, especially given how close together these brackets are. All of this will assume you're a largely unremarkable candidate. At median you'e lucky to get any screeners. I've heard of people around top 1/3 getting 0, and I think somewhere in the 3-8 range is typical. Top 20% you'll probably get a bunch of your screeners from alternates and may end up with somewhere around 20. Top 10% you'll get a lot, probably 25+. This also assumes you're going to the off-campus programs and are applying broadly. Don't forget that there's no number of screeners that guarantees an offer, especially since firms aren't typically calling back a ton of WUSTL students.

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Sprout
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Sprout » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:21 am

Friends of mine around median got anywhere from 2-10 screeners last year, between OCI + off campus programs + mass mail. Friends around top 15%+ got 25-40ish screeners iirc between all the programs. Regardless of rank, everyone should be maximizing their amount of screeners until they get an offer, in whatever way that is possible. Just to echo what has already been said, there definitely were people top third and above that struck out..

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:16 pm

Sprout wrote:Friends of mine around median got anywhere from 2-10 screeners last year, between OCI + off campus programs + mass mail. Friends around top 15%+ got 25-40ish screeners iirc between all the programs. Regardless of rank, everyone should be maximizing their amount of screeners until they get an offer, in whatever way that is possible. Just to echo what has already been said, there definitely were people top third and above that struck out..


What do you do if you strike out besides go for the MBA?

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Sprout
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Sprout » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:38 pm

aspire2esquire wrote:
Sprout wrote:Friends of mine around median got anywhere from 2-10 screeners last year, between OCI + off campus programs + mass mail. Friends around top 15%+ got 25-40ish screeners iirc between all the programs. Regardless of rank, everyone should be maximizing their amount of screeners until they get an offer, in whatever way that is possible. Just to echo what has already been said, there definitely were people top third and above that struck out..


What do you do if you strike out besides go for the MBA?


Don't strike out. The time to take preventative measures is now. Mass mail, mass mail, mass mail!
If it happens then you just keep applying... network, hustle, etc. Lots of people switch gears to focus on public interest stuff instead of private sector. There is 3L OCI but I have heard it is sort of a crapshoot, and offers to 3Ls are few and far between if they didn't have a SA 2L summer. Remember though, most students do not get their jobs through OCI. Only a small percentage do. Don't rely on it. Mass mail your brains out and hustle on your own. Get as many interviews as possible and work any and all connections you have in any and all markets you would work in. Gl

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:24 pm

Is mass mailing actually very effective, or is it just something that increases your chances on the margins? I've done about 200 MMs and have only gotten 2 screeners. It's obviously worth it, even for one screener, but do people get a substantial number of interviews through MM?

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Sprout
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Sprout » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:45 pm

RareExports wrote:Is mass mailing actually very effective, or is it just something that increases your chances on the margins? I've done about 200 MMs and have only gotten 2 screeners. It's obviously worth it, even for one screener, but do people get a substantial number of interviews through MM?

I sent out probably about 300 or so mass mails and only got two screeners as well, but one of them led to a callback at a great firm in a difficult market. Imo it's all worth it. If you think about it, now is really the only chance you have to (likely) get a shot at biglaw. So if you really want it, there isn't much else more worth doing with your free time than sending out additional mass mails, even if it just helps marginally, it could be the difference between an offer and no offers.
ETA: general consensus I think here is mass mail and hustle till you get that offer, no matter what.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:41 pm

Every little bit helps. In my experience, screeners from mass-mail lead to callbacks more frequently. At OCI firms have to fill a certain number of slots whether they really like that many candidates or not, and the interviewer is going to see 20+ people in the span of a day. For mass-mail screeners they only pick resumes they like, and you might be the attorney's only interview that day. Also you can go straight from mass-mail to the callback phase, which is nice.

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby robert88 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:46 am

Will we get an email if/when selected for an interview for either OCI or the other programs?

WUSTLLAW2018
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby WUSTLLAW2018 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:57 am

robert88 wrote:Will we get an email if/when selected for an interview for either OCI or the other programs?


First time poster. For the Denver Diversity Fair OCI, I received an email yesterday telling me that I had been selected for interviews. Today at 6 am I was able to sign up for interview times with the firms. So I imagine that other OCI programs will do likewise. But, that's just a guess.

cm_burns
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby cm_burns » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:56 pm

On the topic of multiple choice vs essay exams, I prefer multiple choice. It's objective; on an essay based exam there are implicit socio-cultural and anthro-political biases that manifest themselves in the way a professor grades an exam. This leaves certain students, who are more outside of power structures, that know the material, and write just as well or better than other students, with worse grades.

The same biases can effect the phrasing of questions, or topic/example used in multiple choice questions, so they are not perfect and free from socio-cultural or anthro-political biases either. A multiple choice test at least prevents professors to consciously impose those biases after the fact on students' answers.

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FuturePaulClement
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby FuturePaulClement » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:53 pm

cm_burns wrote:On the topic of multiple choice vs essay exams, I prefer multiple choice. It's objective; on an essay based exam there are implicit socio-cultural and anthro-political biases that manifest themselves in the way a professor grades an exam. This leaves certain students, who are more outside of power structures, that know the material, and write just as well or better than other students, with worse grades.

The same biases can effect the phrasing of questions, or topic/example used in multiple choice questions, so they are not perfect and free from socio-cultural or anthro-political biases either. A multiple choice test at least prevents professors to consciously impose those biases after the fact on students' answers.


This problem is really endemic to any field designed by white colonialist men. The Anglo-American legal tradition was developed exclusively by white males. It's no surprise that the system (even in law school) benefits white males at the expense of women, POC, and LGBTQIAPD. I've heard of some recent initiatives by feminist students at Columbia and Harvard to make law school exams more fluid and cognizant of different backgrounds. This is a good start, but we won't see real change until we start forcing students to confront the latent patriarchal norms systemic in our legal tradition.

konar
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby konar » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:51 pm

cm_burns wrote:On the topic of multiple choice vs essay exams, I prefer multiple choice. It's objective; on an essay based exam there are implicit socio-cultural and anthro-political biases that manifest themselves in the way a professor grades an exam. This leaves certain students, who are more outside of power structures, that know the material, and write just as well or better than other students, with worse grades.

The same biases can effect the phrasing of questions, or topic/example used in multiple choice questions, so they are not perfect and free from socio-cultural or anthro-political biases either. A multiple choice test at least prevents professors to consciously impose those biases after the fact on students' answers.


I'm not sure if this is masterful trolling or serious.

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Sprout
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Sprout » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:01 pm

robert88 wrote:Will we get an email if/when selected for an interview for either OCI or the other programs?

Yes.

ETA: I found though that last year, I would sometimes get the email notification later than the pre-select was posted on the program website. Not saying you should sit around refreshing pages, but if some of them start to trickle out, check them every now and again. Interviews are first come first serve, so you don't want to lag with signing-up.




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