WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Total Litigator
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Total Litigator » Fri May 13, 2011 3:54 pm

seatown12 wrote:Jeffro you just have to understand that you will need to work a lot harder than others in your class and with little to no help from the school, but you can get back to NC. Do you have any personal connections you can call on? It seems like that's how many people looking for jobs outside the typical WUSTL markets are getting it done.


I think this has some truth to it, but isn't completely fair to the CSO. As a transfer from a T2 to WUSTL (hereinafter "Wash U", c'mon people....), and as someone who is from and wants to work in a certain market (we'll call it State "huh?") outside the midwest, I will say that the Wash U CSO helped me a fair amount. They gave me an alumni list (albeit a short one, maybe 25 people) and opened up a conversation with several of them for me, and consistently offered more help, although I didn't take them up on it.
My T2 basically looked at me incredulously when I asked them if they could possibly help me work in State huh? (e.g. "So, why the hell did you come here kid?") as their primary concerns were strengthening and maintaining their regional ties. Wash U is at the point where the CSO is really trying to increase WUSTL's national reputation beyond LA, NY, and DC (or perhaps more to the point, there are still some hiring partners and judges on US New's annual contact list who live in those states don't know much about Wash U), and for that reason they have a vested (ok contingent, lol) interest in increasing their alumni base in states where Wash U is underrepresented. I think NC would be a textbook example of such a state.

Jeffro
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Jeffro » Fri May 13, 2011 5:17 pm

^ This sounds promising. Now that you mention it, I had heard from the CSO during an ASD that at the very least they put students in contact with alumni working in states that are atypical for Wash U. I'm content with the idea of working my own contacts and any other leads the CSO can give me. Thanks again everyone.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Sat May 14, 2011 1:17 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
seatown12 wrote:Jeffro you just have to understand that you will need to work a lot harder than others in your class and with little to no help from the school, but you can get back to NC. Do you have any personal connections you can call on? It seems like that's how many people looking for jobs outside the typical WUSTL markets are getting it done.


I think this has some truth to it, but isn't completely fair to the CSO. As a transfer from a T2 to WUSTL (hereinafter "Wash U", c'mon people....), and as someone who is from and wants to work in a certain market (we'll call it State "huh?") outside the midwest, I will say that the Wash U CSO helped me a fair amount. They gave me an alumni list (albeit a short one, maybe 25 people) and opened up a conversation with several of them for me, and consistently offered more help, although I didn't take them up on it.

+1. People who complain about the CSO typically have not utilized them properly. I always hear complaints about the CSO (not just here at Wash U, but everywhere), and the criticism at WUSTL really isn't warranted. I don't think the CSO is perfect by any stretch, but more often than not the CSO will bend over backwards to help students. It's usually when people don't meet with them regularly, or (even worse) rely on them too much that you hear a lot of gripes.

Maybe my opinion will change during my 2L job hunt, but I have to give them a pretty good grade through my 1L year.

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Sat May 14, 2011 3:37 pm

I don't think it's "unfair" to advise someone who is interested in an unusual region not to count on significant employment assistance from the school. I think all students would do well to come into law school expecting not to rely on their CSO. I think the individual effort it takes to get the type of job you want is extremely underestimated by 0Ls. This is not a knock on the Wash U CSO specifically, although I have not been particularly impressed with them.

Maybe I'm in an especially tough spot because I am trying to go into indigent defense and am more interested in the West Coast, but on the few occasions when I have asked the CSO for information or advice they have been completely unhelpful. I have found that in almost every situation it is more effective to just look for an answer online than to consult the CSO. This has been my experience, and so I advised Jeffro accordingly. If other people have had different experiences then maybe mine is less representative.
Last edited by seatown12 on Sun May 15, 2011 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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edgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby edgarfigaro » Sat May 14, 2011 11:05 pm

Jeffro, I'm in the same situation except I'm not 100% sure I'm coming back to NC. I've talked to several lawyers in multiple areas, and it all comes down to your ties- i.e. if you have strong ties to NC already, you'll be ok if you get the necessary grades. The only caveat is if you want to go into politics in NC, you really, REALLY need to stay in state, and preferably go to UNC.

So yeah, I wouldn't choose WUSTL over UNC unless the COA was significantly less...but WUSTL over Wake on down is, at least from what I've gleaned, a perfectly reasonable decision.

TwentyFive
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby TwentyFive » Sat May 14, 2011 11:55 pm

Hi. Can anyone share insight on the prospects WUSTL D.C. clinic graduates have? Also, how hard is it to get on the clinic? Thanks in advance.

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bigjinjapan
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby bigjinjapan » Sun May 15, 2011 10:09 am

This has been an extremely informative thread to read over the last few months. Thanks to all the gurus for contributing. This question may be a little out there, but does anyone have any experience with the study abroad process? One of my biggest hang-ups about going with WUSTL is that they don't have an exchange program with any Japanese universities; though the website does state that you can arrange your own. Anyone planning to do this, or know someone who is? Any idea how hard it might be?

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stratocophic
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby stratocophic » Sun May 15, 2011 1:01 pm

bigjinjapan wrote:This has been an extremely informative thread to read over the last few months. Thanks to all the gurus for contributing. This question may be a little out there, but does anyone have any experience with the study abroad process? One of my biggest hang-ups about going with WUSTL is that they don't have an exchange program with any Japanese universities; though the website does state that you can arrange your own. Anyone planning to do this, or know someone who is? Any idea how hard it might be?
I've heard that it's generally fairly easy to get in on other schools' study abroad programs. Also, any scholarship you get is supposedly applied towards study abroad, which is pretty sweet.

Best way to find out is probably to call the registrar's office. They'll likely know more than any of the random 1Ls/2Ls who lurk here (for this kind of question, anyway).

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thexfactor
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby thexfactor » Mon May 16, 2011 11:37 am

dont worry everyone gets a study abroad position if you want it. The only one that was competitive this year was Hong Kong. It seems that everyone wants to go to hong kong.

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camstant
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby camstant » Mon May 16, 2011 2:53 pm

TwentyFive wrote:Hi. Can anyone share insight on the prospects WUSTL D.C. clinic graduates have? Also, how hard is it to get on the clinic? Thanks in advance.


Although I haven't done it (I'm a 1L), I've been looking into this for myself, and pretty much everyone I've talked to about it has said that it's a really great experience if you're looking to do government work. First, I don't think it's at all difficult to get into the clinic, but you may not necessarily get your first pick as to which agency you'll be working for. Second, as with anything else, it's not not going to be an automatic job in DC, but if it's the kind of work you want to do, you'll be in direct contact with the very people you need to talk to = obvious advantages. I'm not sure on statistics or anything, but drawing from anecdotes of those going the environmental direction, at least some employment has been found through doing the clinic.

TwentyFive
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby TwentyFive » Mon May 16, 2011 4:05 pm

camstant wrote:
TwentyFive wrote:Hi. Can anyone share insight on the prospects WUSTL D.C. clinic graduates have? Also, how hard is it to get on the clinic? Thanks in advance.


Although I haven't done it (I'm a 1L), I've been looking into this for myself, and pretty much everyone I've talked to about it has said that it's a really great experience if you're looking to do government work. First, I don't think it's at all difficult to get into the clinic, but you may not necessarily get your first pick as to which agency you'll be working for. Second, as with anything else, it's not not going to be an automatic job in DC, but if it's the kind of work you want to do, you'll be in direct contact with the very people you need to talk to = obvious advantages. I'm not sure on statistics or anything, but drawing from anecdotes of those going the environmental direction, at least some employment has been found through doing the clinic.


Thanks! Would you be able to provide a list of some of the agencies the clinic puts people with?

Furthermore, I see that the clinic goes to Washington during the spring semester of 3L year...what do students do after 2L (during the summers)?

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bigjinjapan
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby bigjinjapan » Tue May 17, 2011 8:09 am

Thanks for the study abroad info. I was doing a little looking at the housing situation and it looks like there are some relatively cheap and nice-looking options over in the downtown area. It looks like a pretty good haul from campus but it seems like you could take the metro pretty easily. Any thoughts on the area? How safe/useful is the metro? Any big downsides to living further away from campus?

http://www.liveparkpacific.com/Default.aspx

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jcdc
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby jcdc » Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 am

TwentyFive wrote:
camstant wrote:
TwentyFive wrote:Hi. Can anyone share insight on the prospects WUSTL D.C. clinic graduates have? Also, how hard is it to get on the clinic? Thanks in advance.


Although I haven't done it (I'm a 1L), I've been looking into this for myself, and pretty much everyone I've talked to about it has said that it's a really great experience if you're looking to do government work. First, I don't think it's at all difficult to get into the clinic, but you may not necessarily get your first pick as to which agency you'll be working for. Second, as with anything else, it's not not going to be an automatic job in DC, but if it's the kind of work you want to do, you'll be in direct contact with the very people you need to talk to = obvious advantages. I'm not sure on statistics or anything, but drawing from anecdotes of those going the environmental direction, at least some employment has been found through doing the clinic.


Thanks! Would you be able to provide a list of some of the agencies the clinic puts people with?

Furthermore, I see that the clinic goes to Washington during the spring semester of 3L year...what do students do after 2L (during the summers)?


My WUSTL buddy secured an internship spot in the U.S. Department of Education Office of Counsel the summer after 2L. He worked in the Department of Defense Office of Counsel during the 3L DC Clinic. While the clinic may not lead to employment with the particular agency you work for, the contacts seem to have been valuable. I think there's a lot of flexibility in where you work depending on which issues you find most compelling. I've been told that gov't hiring is based much more on your contacts and being in the right place at the right time than class rank, etc... so the WUSTL DC clinic seems like a good leg-up for students hoping to get in that field that don't study in DC.

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Tue May 17, 2011 10:57 am

bigjinjapan wrote:Thanks for the study abroad info. I was doing a little looking at the housing situation and it looks like there are some relatively cheap and nice-looking options over in the downtown area. It looks like a pretty good haul from campus but it seems like you could take the metro pretty easily. Any thoughts on the area? How safe/useful is the metro? Any big downsides to living further away from campus?

I live downtown currently. The housing here is far and away the best value for the money in Saint Louis. In addition to the buildings you listed you should check out the lofts on Wash Ave. In the winter parts of downtown can be pretty dead after the work day ends, but Wash Ave stays relatively lively.

The metro is easy to use, especially with the free pass you get as a Wash U student. From 8th and Pine it takes me just under 30 min to get to school, but of course you can use that time to catch up on reading or whatever. I have never had a bad experience on the Metro or even seen anything sketchy.

The problem with living downtown is you will be disconnected from the law school social scene. Most people live in the Loop or CWE and choose to hang out at the same handful of bars in those areas. In my experience it's tough to get people to branch out and give downtown a chance (before 1am, unless there's a Cards game).

As a 1L I lived in the CWE with law school roommates and enjoyed it. I'm not sure how my experience would have changed had I lived downtown then. I think maybe the best advice is to do what I did and live in the Loop or CWE (or even Clayton) for a year, then think about moving downtown for the next 2. Definitely come out for one of the housing days though to check things out and meet potential roommates.

TwentyFive
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby TwentyFive » Tue May 17, 2011 1:18 pm

jcdc wrote:
TwentyFive wrote:
camstant wrote:
TwentyFive wrote:Hi. Can anyone share insight on the prospects WUSTL D.C. clinic graduates have? Also, how hard is it to get on the clinic? Thanks in advance.


Although I haven't done it (I'm a 1L), I've been looking into this for myself, and pretty much everyone I've talked to about it has said that it's a really great experience if you're looking to do government work. First, I don't think it's at all difficult to get into the clinic, but you may not necessarily get your first pick as to which agency you'll be working for. Second, as with anything else, it's not not going to be an automatic job in DC, but if it's the kind of work you want to do, you'll be in direct contact with the very people you need to talk to = obvious advantages. I'm not sure on statistics or anything, but drawing from anecdotes of those going the environmental direction, at least some employment has been found through doing the clinic.


Thanks! Would you be able to provide a list of some of the agencies the clinic puts people with?

Furthermore, I see that the clinic goes to Washington during the spring semester of 3L year...what do students do after 2L (during the summers)?


My WUSTL buddy secured an internship spot in the U.S. Department of Education Office of Counsel the summer after 2L. He worked in the Department of Defense Office of Counsel during the 3L DC Clinic. While the clinic may not lead to employment with the particular agency you work for, the contacts seem to have been valuable. I think there's a lot of flexibility in where you work depending on which issues you find most compelling. I've been told that gov't hiring is based much more on your contacts and being in the right place at the right time than class rank, etc... so the WUSTL DC clinic seems like a good leg-up for students hoping to get in that field that don't study in DC.


Oh, fantastic! Any idea if he secured the agency he wanted for full time employment? Feel free to PM if you'd prefer to keep it off the forum.

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bigjinjapan
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby bigjinjapan » Tue May 17, 2011 7:48 pm

seatown12 wrote:
bigjinjapan wrote:Thanks for the study abroad info. I was doing a little looking at the housing situation and it looks like there are some relatively cheap and nice-looking options over in the downtown area. It looks like a pretty good haul from campus but it seems like you could take the metro pretty easily. Any thoughts on the area? How safe/useful is the metro? Any big downsides to living further away from campus?

I live downtown currently. The housing here is far and away the best value for the money in Saint Louis. In addition to the buildings you listed you should check out the lofts on Wash Ave. In the winter parts of downtown can be pretty dead after the work day ends, but Wash Ave stays relatively lively.

The metro is easy to use, especially with the free pass you get as a Wash U student. From 8th and Pine it takes me just under 30 min to get to school, but of course you can use that time to catch up on reading or whatever. I have never had a bad experience on the Metro or even seen anything sketchy.

The problem with living downtown is you will be disconnected from the law school social scene. Most people live in the Loop or CWE and choose to hang out at the same handful of bars in those areas. In my experience it's tough to get people to branch out and give downtown a chance (before 1am, unless there's a Cards game).

As a 1L I lived in the CWE with law school roommates and enjoyed it. I'm not sure how my experience would have changed had I lived downtown then. I think maybe the best advice is to do what I did and live in the Loop or CWE (or even Clayton) for a year, then think about moving downtown for the next 2. Definitely come out for one of the housing days though to check things out and meet potential roommates.


Thanks! I won't be back in the 'States until August so I'm trying to arrange housing long distance. My parents have offered to go and check things out for me, but I'd like to do as much narrowing down as possible beforehand. How is the general liveability downtown? Are there grocery stores and stuff in easy distance? Do you think it would be feasible to bike to the law school from the area?

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Tue May 17, 2011 8:25 pm

There is a grocery store centrally located here that I walk to. Downtown StL isn't a destination neighborhood like in more major cities though; there aren't a lot of casual places to grab dinner if you don't feel like cooking, and most of the shopping is out in the county. It's possible to bike to school but I don't know how enjoyable the ride would be, especially when the weather gets bad.

To be honest if you don't mind a long bike ride I'd check out the Tower Grove area around South Grand. It's off the Metro line, which is why I didn't want to live there, but it's a cool neighborhood that is probably a little more livable than Downtown, more affordable than the CWE, and classier than the Loop. I would also check places in Clayton either around Shaw Park or in the area north of I-64 and west of Forest Park.

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samfii
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby samfii » Wed May 18, 2011 2:43 am

Thanks for your help a few months ago guys! I had a question for people that have a car out in St. Louis- do you swap snow tires on your car during the winter or just use chains? Am I ok to drive on all-season tires? My tires are pretty much brand new but I'm concerned about how they'll hold up in the snow
(I'm from California, I'm very inexperienced with snow :oops: )

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Punisha20
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Punisha20 » Wed May 18, 2011 2:52 am

samfii wrote:Thanks for your help a few months ago guys! I had a question for people that have a car out in St. Louis- do you swap snow tires on your car during the winter or just use chains? Am I ok to drive on all-season tires? My tires are pretty much brand new but I'm concerned about how they'll hold up in the snow
(I'm from California, I'm very inexperienced with snow :oops: )


You are fine with all-season tires. I have been living in snowy Ohio/PA my whole life and I have never seen a car rolling around with chains on their tires.

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bigjinjapan
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby bigjinjapan » Wed May 18, 2011 6:45 am

seatown12 wrote:There is a grocery store centrally located here that I walk to. Downtown StL isn't a destination neighborhood like in more major cities though; there aren't a lot of casual places to grab dinner if you don't feel like cooking, and most of the shopping is out in the county. It's possible to bike to school but I don't know how enjoyable the ride would be, especially when the weather gets bad.

To be honest if you don't mind a long bike ride I'd check out the Tower Grove area around South Grand. It's off the Metro line, which is why I didn't want to live there, but it's a cool neighborhood that is probably a little more livable than Downtown, more affordable than the CWE, and classier than the Loop. I would also check places in Clayton either around Shaw Park or in the area north of I-64 and west of Forest Park.


Good info. I'm more interested in having a big place with amenities than anything else, but it seems like there are a lot of options. The downtown area sounds a little like downtown LA when I lived there a few years ago, which improved dramatically in the 2 years I was there. Do you get the feeling the area is on its way up? Does it feel safe? Sorry for the run-on questions; it's great to have input from someone on the scene.

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Wed May 18, 2011 9:54 am

That's funny you say that because I was in LA this past summer and I can see the similarity also, the difference obviously being that Saint Louis is on a much smaller scale. The area is definitely on its way up; the grocery store I referenced was only put in around 2 years ago, and that was a big step. At this point the business community is just starting to realize that there is a population base here other than the 9-5 crowd and the people looking for a big weekend out.

The neighborhood feels very safe. I would park off-street, but I'd say the same in the CWE or elsewhere. I do not feel at risk for random violent crime at all. You will be surprised when you get here how segregated the city is, with the north being home to the African-American population and also most of the crime. It's my least-favorite thing about Saint Louis, but the consequence is that the areas students live and hang out are fairly safe.

Based on your criteria I'd say you were right to target downtown.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 18, 2011 10:42 am

samfii wrote:Thanks for your help a few months ago guys! I had a question for people that have a car out in St. Louis- do you swap snow tires on your car during the winter or just use chains? Am I ok to drive on all-season tires? My tires are pretty much brand new but I'm concerned about how they'll hold up in the snow
(I'm from California, I'm very inexperienced with snow :oops: )

:lol:

You don't need chains on your tires and you should be fine with your normal tires all year. What kind of car do you drive? If you drive a light car, I might recommend sandbags in the trunk or something, but you don't need to change your tires. You California/Florida/Texas peeps crack me up. :lol:

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ihp12
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby ihp12 » Wed May 18, 2011 10:49 am

romothesavior wrote:
samfii wrote:Thanks for your help a few months ago guys! I had a question for people that have a car out in St. Louis- do you swap snow tires on your car during the winter or just use chains? Am I ok to drive on all-season tires? My tires are pretty much brand new but I'm concerned about how they'll hold up in the snow
(I'm from California, I'm very inexperienced with snow :oops: )

:lol:

You don't need chains on your tires and you should be fine with your normal tires all year. What kind of car do you drive? If you drive a light car, I might recommend sandbags in the trunk or something, but you don't need to change your tires. You California/Florida/Texas peeps crack me up. :lol:


You have no idea. If it snows even 1/4 of an inch in texas the state SHUTS DOWN. No school, no work, nothing

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samfii
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby samfii » Wed May 18, 2011 2:03 pm

Thanks Punisha and Romo, I drive one of the newer Camrys and it's pretty darn heavy so i'm not worried about it being too light, I was just worried about my tires not being able to handle the cold... I'm just bracing myself for the coldness/snow :shock:

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Hannibal
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Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Hannibal » Wed May 18, 2011 3:35 pm

romothesavior wrote:
samfii wrote:Thanks for your help a few months ago guys! I had a question for people that have a car out in St. Louis- do you swap snow tires on your car during the winter or just use chains? Am I ok to drive on all-season tires? My tires are pretty much brand new but I'm concerned about how they'll hold up in the snow
(I'm from California, I'm very inexperienced with snow :oops: )

:lol:

You don't need chains on your tires and you should be fine with your normal tires all year. What kind of car do you drive? If you drive a light car, I might recommend sandbags in the trunk or something, but you don't need to change your tires. You California/Florida/Texas peeps crack me up. :lol:


I'm not sure about samfil, but every time I told people I was heading to Tahoe, they'd say something like "you better bring chains." Even if there was no snow forecast, since "you never know".




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