WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Joscellin
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Joscellin » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:40 pm

Field's LP grades are up

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:47 pm

Joscellin wrote:Field's LP grades are up

No Klovning yet, and she's not even listed next to the LRM grade. Sign???

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:23 pm

To those of you who punted LP, I have a few questions:

- Is it relevant to my future work product as a lawyer that my final memo is objectively pretty bad? I'm editing it for my writing sample and it's actually quite shit. Granted, I put very little effort into it, but is it representative at all of the work I'd be doing as an attorney?

- How much of the grading is about style and how much of it is objectively applicable to everything? I'm trying to decide which comments to internalize and what I want to learn from this class.

- How much should I stress about the writing sample? Is it one of those things that just have to be passably okay, or is it a huge factor when employers are making decisions? And how good does it have to be?

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby LET'S GET IT » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:36 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:To those of you who punted LP, I have a few questions:

- Is it relevant to my future work product as a lawyer that my final memo is objectively pretty bad? I'm editing it for my writing sample and it's actually quite shit. Granted, I put very little effort into it, but is it representative at all of the work I'd be doing as an attorney?

- How much of the grading is about style and how much of it is objectively applicable to everything? I'm trying to decide which comments to internalize and what I want to learn from this class.

- How much should I stress about the writing sample? Is it one of those things that just have to be passably okay, or is it a huge factor when employers are making decisions? And how good does it have to be?


Not really as long as you can write well when you need to. And frankly, this summer people will expect your writing to be not great, so you're fine. You need a writing sample, but I'm not even convinced they do more than glance at that with the exception of a clerkship.

Yeah it's probably representative of the work you may very well be doing, both during your two summers, and later as a young attorney somewhere.

Writing sample: not much. Again, I know judges check them closely and I'm sure some other jobs do, but I think most just glance at them or don't look at them at all. You really just need it for a summer job. By the time OCI gets here, you'll probably be using something else.

Not totally sure about grading style. I didn't do well in LP and the place I worked last summer was very complementary of my writing, but like you I totally punted LP and tried really hard during the summer. Don't stress, you'll be fine. You admittedly didn't try that hard on it, I'm sure you are capable of doing work that will be more than adequate for a first year law student.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:26 pm

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Surefire44
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Surefire44 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:05 pm

Your question is aimed at people who "punted LP" - - I did not, but I will still answer your question. If LP is structured where the first semester is focused on writing memorandums and second semester is briefs and motions then punting on the first semester was a good decision.

Now for your questions:
No. It is not relevant to your future work product as a lawyer that your final memo is objectively pretty bad. It is one paper! 1st semester of LP sets the foundation. It should teach you how to select cases (based on jurisdiction, facts, persuasiveness, etc). It should teach you how to format a legal memo. It should show you how to analyze cases and compare facts of your matter to the cases. So taking LP seriously first semester is important from that perspective.

No. Memo writing is not representative of ALL the work you will be doing as an attorney. I believe our LP courses are more geared for those who want to litigate. BUT if you become a litigator writing memos will be representative of some of your work as an associate when you need to find the answers to partner's questions when they prepare for trial.

Some of grading is about style and style is important. Tailoring your style based on your audience is crucial. If you become a litigator you must be a dynamic writer. Read Ross Guberman, Point Made: How to Write Like the Nation’s Top Advocates (2d ed. (2014).

Writing samples are important. A poor writing sample could hurt your application. But an amazing writing sample will not get you a job. Grades are most important. Your personality/ ability to interview is 2nd. Your resume is 3rd. (Resume could be 2nd; ability to interview could be 3rd) And your writing sample is least important. Ultimately, I would say it is one of those things that just have to be passably okay if you are in the top of the class. (No errors and make sure the writing makes sense) But if you outside the top quarter a great interview, resume, and writing sample are crucial.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:10 pm

..

Surefire44
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Surefire44 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:21 pm

My writing sample was read. The managing partner's flight was running late and he decided to read my writing sample. Luckily he liked my writing and it actually gave us a lot to talk about during the interview. I got the SA position.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:27 pm

Surefire44 wrote:My writing sample was read. The managing partner's flight was running late and he decided to read my writing sample. Luckily he liked my writing and it actually gave us a lot to talk about during the interview. I got the SA position.


Would you mind sharing grades/firm range/diversity? Can PM if you'd like. This is a 1L SA right?

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TetrisBlock
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TetrisBlock » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:26 pm

Wow, I did quite poorly in LRW. What is the second semester of LRW like? Is it just as awful/In what way is it awful? I haven't picked up my paper yet so hopefully the points off are for bluebooking or something else easily fixable. Dragged my GPA down quite a bit, which isn't indicative of my grades in other classes being particularly high but rather my grade in LRW being particularly low. Blah.

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TetrisBlock
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TetrisBlock » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:32 pm

Does anyone have any advice for LaPierre for Con Law? I was quite lost in Osgood for Crim Law last year until the last week or two before the exam, but I think if I had something like that again I would know how to handle it. Is Chemerinsky a good supplement for him? What is his exam like/What does he look for on it?

I'm planning on putting the most effort into that and Civ Pro, and putting less work into Property since everyone says Mandelker is an easy exam. But that really freaks me out, because I worry I'll get to the end of the semester and wish I had briefed or something. And I don't know how I would answer a tight word limit exam. Do I not put as much analysis? Do I only focus on tought issues and not waste time on the easy points or do I try to cram them in short sentences?

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:41 pm

..

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:10 pm

Yeah LP is gonna tank my grade. I shoulda taken it more seriously. By that I mean slightly seriously because I spent like no time on that class.

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Joscellin
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Joscellin » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:55 pm

TetrisBlock wrote:I haven't picked up my paper yet so hopefully the points off are for bluebooking or something else easily fixable.


Not sure who your LP is, but my section's papers with comments and rubric (Field) are available on TWEN, we don't have to pickup by hand.

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby LET'S GET IT » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:20 am

TetrisBlock wrote:Does anyone have any advice for LaPierre for Con Law? I was quite lost in Osgood for Crim Law last year until the last week or two before the exam, but I think if I had something like that again I would know how to handle it. Is Chemerinsky a good supplement for him? What is his exam like/What does he look for on it?

I'm planning on putting the most effort into that and Civ Pro, and putting less work into Property since everyone says Mandelker is an easy exam. But that really freaks me out, because I worry I'll get to the end of the semester and wish I had briefed or something. And I don't know how I would answer a tight word limit exam. Do I not put as much analysis? Do I only focus on tought issues and not waste time on the easy points or do I try to cram them in short sentences?


For Mandy make sure you take pictures of the multitude of slides he posts. One or two of them will come in handy on the exam. Also make sure you have the really long outline that goes around. Do those things and you'll be fine. I seriously wouldn't worry much about the reading. Because of the format of his exam, the curve is really flat and there are a ton of grades right around median. Although it's really hard to crush that class, median can be attained without a ton of effort in my opinion.

As for the exam, there will be one thing he's looking for on each question. You just have to find it. It could be a case, a statute, a slide, whatever. You only have 300 words per question so just identify the correct issue and discuss briefly and you're fine.

La Pierre is a mad genius. His lectures are like peformance art. I didn't do great on his exam so take this with a grain of salt, but do the analysis on the exams exactly like he does it in class. He will do tons of examples in class. Pay close attention and learn to do it the way he does it which, by the way, is not necessarily how the court does it in some instances. You can find some of his briefs on westlaw/lexis. Read them and structure your analysis just like he does in his briefs. That's all I got and again, I didn't do great so take it as you will.

Eta: protip for Mandy. He calls on like 10 people a day so you will get called several times during the semester. He's either 89 or 90 and he's kind of halfway out of it at this point. Sit in the back. If you get called on and don't have a clue (which will happen) just mumble something inaudible and he'll move on. You think I'm joking but I'm not.

chingwoo
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chingwoo » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:44 am

Konigs exam was a race horse. Just understand everything just enough to throw it all at the exam and you'll probably be fine.

Also the book's notes can be super helpful. Understanding property is recommended but the text book has the exact same stuff, just a little less explained.

Also if anyone wants to buy a property text book. . . Send me a message.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:58 am

Grade distributions are back up. Well done, team.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:01 pm

RareExports wrote:Grade distributions are back up. Well done, team.


Link? I can't find it.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:05 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
RareExports wrote:Grade distributions are back up. Well done, team.


Link? I can't find it.

Spring 2015: https://law.wustl.edu/m/content.aspx?id=10478

Fall 2014: https://law.wustl.edu/m/content.aspx?id=10337

If you Google "wash u law grade distributions" they will all pop up. Not sure how to access through the Wash U site, though.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:06 pm

Oh those have been up since at least November (when I looked at them). I thought you meant distributions for this past semester.

Is Spring OCI worth the effort? How good do your grades need to be to get a shot at getting anything (paid or unpaid) from Spring OCI, if it is even possible?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:55 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Oh those have been up since at least November (when I looked at them). I thought you meant distributions for this past semester.

Is Spring OCI worth the effort? How good do your grades need to be to get a shot at getting anything (paid or unpaid) from Spring OCI, if it is even possible?


My experience may be dated by now (went through Spring OCI in 2012), but back then you had to be (1) near top of the class or (2) URM (ideally both) to have a chance at something paid. I was literally #1 after first semester and I only got 2 callbacks at firms (and none in STL, which I am not a native of). The #2 guy got a few callbacks, no offers, but was not URM. I know of 4-5 people who got 1L SAs. That said, I don't remember it being too much work to apply, so why not?

No idea about unpaid gigs.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:58 pm

..

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:08 pm

Still waiting on 1 doctrinal. If it's median I'll be top 15% (barely) according to last year's cutoffs. Hopefully it isn't median. I'm Asian, and I know it's not URM, but I do qualify for diversity. Does that help or no? Not a St. Louis native, but I really want to stay in St. Louis. Does dating a St. Louis native count lol (she's a big reason I want to stay in the city actually, does that actually count as a tie?). How about chances at USAO? I'm a little behind on this whole employment think I know, I did nothing but hangout with friends and play video games this break. Just now got my resume and writing sample completely shored up.

I'd appreciate any generic 1L job search tips. I got a median grade in LP and my memo is really bad, which is why I'm not sure I can snag a judicial internship, although I'd be very happy doing an unpaid judicial internship here in STL. I patched it up somewhat for a writing sample but it's not gonna blow anybody's mind.

chingwoo
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chingwoo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:50 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:Still waiting on 1 doctrinal. If it's median I'll be top 15% (barely) according to last year's cutoffs. Hopefully it isn't median. I'm Asian, and I know it's not URM, but I do qualify for diversity. Does that help or no? Not a St. Louis native, but I really want to stay in St. Louis. Does dating a St. Louis native count lol (she's a big reason I want to stay in the city actually, does that actually count as a tie?). How about chances at USAO? I'm a little behind on this whole employment think I know, I did nothing but hangout with friends and play video games this break. Just now got my resume and writing sample completely shored up.

I'd appreciate any generic 1L job search tips. I got a median grade in LP and my memo is really bad, which is why I'm not sure I can snag a judicial internship, although I'd be very happy doing an unpaid judicial internship here in STL. I patched it up somewhat for a writing sample but it's not gonna blow anybody's mind.


Apply to everything, Texas, Minneapolis, Ohio. 10% of my 2L class got offers for market paying 1L SAs.

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Joscellin
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Joscellin » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:38 pm

De Geest is up




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