WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:42 am

4.0 is top 1%.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:41 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:Greenfield's midterm grades come out tomorrow, and I know they don't matter too much, but I'm still about to shit my pants. Will let you all know if I'm destined to be median.

To be clear, median is 3.55 right? And top 10% is 4.0+? Is that how the curve works?

I don't know enough to comment much on grade distribution, but median can be set between 3.49 and 3.55, but in the past, professors have typically chosen 3.55. The grade distributions for each section and prof used to be posted but they took them down a month or two ago. I think I remember Greenfield sometimes choosing 3.49 though.

I'm mostly here to comment on the idea that the midterm grade can be predictive of your relative performance. This is possible but very unlikely. Just because there is an enforced grade distribution for the final grade does not mean that there is any sort of enforced distribution for the midterm. Everyone could get a 4.0 or a 2.0 on the midterm and either would be equivalent to everyone getting a 3.49 to 3.55. So unless the grade distribution for the midterm is posted, you really have no idea how where your grade falls on the curve. Same goes for Legal Practice and the closed memo.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby PeanutsNJam » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:01 pm

Confirmation on whether or not the midterm is curved?

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby LET'S GET IT » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:48 pm

RareExports wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Greenfield's midterm grades come out tomorrow, and I know they don't matter too much, but I'm still about to shit my pants. Will let you all know if I'm destined to be median.

To be clear, median is 3.55 right? And top 10% is 4.0+? Is that how the curve works?

I don't know enough to comment much on grade distribution, but median can be set between 3.49 and 3.55, but in the past, professors have typically chosen 3.55. The grade distributions for each section and prof used to be posted but they took them down a month or two ago. I think I remember Greenfield sometimes choosing 3.49 though.

I'm mostly here to comment on the idea that the midterm grade can be predictive of your relative performance. This is possible but very unlikely. Just because there is an enforced grade distribution for the final grade does not mean that there is any sort of enforced distribution for the midterm. Everyone could get a 4.0 or a 2.0 on the midterm and either would be equivalent to everyone getting a 3.49 to 3.55. So unless the grade distribution for the midterm is posted, you really have no idea how where your grade falls on the curve. Same goes for Legal Practice and the closed memo.


I can't speak to Greenfield's midterm, but the briefs/memos for Legal Practice are on the curve. I think you only get a letter grade and not a 3.xx, but it still lets you know how you did relative to the curve. If you got a B+ for instance, you know you are slightly below median, if you get an A- you know you are slightly above, and so on. You don't have to have a class grade distribution to get a good idea of how you did compared with everyone else.

Also no one asked, but Osgood's paper for crim is for sure not graded on the curve.

konar
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby konar » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:24 pm

Greenfield's midterm is on the curve, but it also either matters very little or not at all.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:19 pm

LET'S GET IT wrote:
RareExports wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Greenfield's midterm grades come out tomorrow, and I know they don't matter too much, but I'm still about to shit my pants. Will let you all know if I'm destined to be median.

To be clear, median is 3.55 right? And top 10% is 4.0+? Is that how the curve works?

I don't know enough to comment much on grade distribution, but median can be set between 3.49 and 3.55, but in the past, professors have typically chosen 3.55. The grade distributions for each section and prof used to be posted but they took them down a month or two ago. I think I remember Greenfield sometimes choosing 3.49 though.

I'm mostly here to comment on the idea that the midterm grade can be predictive of your relative performance. This is possible but very unlikely. Just because there is an enforced grade distribution for the final grade does not mean that there is any sort of enforced distribution for the midterm. Everyone could get a 4.0 or a 2.0 on the midterm and either would be equivalent to everyone getting a 3.49 to 3.55. So unless the grade distribution for the midterm is posted, you really have no idea how where your grade falls on the curve. Same goes for Legal Practice and the closed memo.


I can't speak to Greenfield's midterm, but the briefs/memos for Legal Practice are on the curve. I think you only get a letter grade and not a 3.xx, but it still lets you know how you did relative to the curve. If you got a B+ for instance, you know you are slightly below median, if you get an A- you know you are slightly above, and so on. You don't have to have a class grade distribution to get a good idea of how you did compared with everyone else.

Also no one asked, but Osgood's paper for crim is for sure not graded on the curve.

For what it's worth, I was told by my LP professor that the closed memo was not graded on a curve (although it is, of course, a component of the final grade which is on a curve).

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:20 pm

How much does work experience help during OCI? I am deciding between working for a firm and another job with better perks and salary. Thank you.

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby LET'S GET IT » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:28 pm

aspire2esquire wrote:How much does work experience help during OCI? I am deciding between working for a firm and another job with better perks and salary. Thank you.


It's seems to help get screeners IMO. Past that I don't think it matters.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:36 pm

aspire2esquire wrote:How much does work experience help during OCI? I am deciding between working for a firm and another job with better perks and salary. Thank you.


Take the better perks and salary. How are you making this decision now, anyway? Firms aren't supposed to take applications from 1Ls until 12/1.
Last edited by hoos89 on Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:37 pm

LET'S GET IT wrote:
aspire2esquire wrote:How much does work experience help during OCI? I am deciding between working for a firm and another job with better perks and salary. Thank you.


It's seems to help get screeners IMO. Past that I don't think it matters.


Are more screeners helpful? Or false positives for potential callbacks?

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:39 pm

hoos89 wrote:
aspire2esquire wrote:How much does work experience help during OCI? I am deciding between working for a firm and another job with better perks and salary. Thank you.


Take the better perks and salary. How are you making this decision now, anyway? Firms aren't supposed to take applications from 1Ls until 12/1.


0L

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:40 pm

Oh right, yeah definitely go with perks + salary at least 9 times out of 10. It will only really matter if you want to go back to that firm after graduation or something.

Jay2716
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Jay2716 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:03 am

hoos89 wrote:Oh right, yeah definitely go with perks + salary at least 9 times out of 10. It will only really matter if you want to go back to that firm after graduation or something.


I also think working at a firm would help you figure out if you really want to be a lawyer. I think if an 0L is considering a firm job and can afford to take it's a good idea. People who worked at firms before LS also seemed to have a more coherent idea of what they wanted to do earlier, and I think that's also valuable.

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:07 pm

Thanks.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:32 pm

Jay2716 wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Oh right, yeah definitely go with perks + salary at least 9 times out of 10. It will only really matter if you want to go back to that firm after graduation or something.


I also think working at a firm would help you figure out if you really want to be a lawyer. I think if an 0L is considering a firm job and can afford to take it's a good idea. People who worked at firms before LS also seemed to have a more coherent idea of what they wanted to do earlier, and I think that's also valuable.


I think that depends on what the firm does and what the role within it would be versus what the other job is, though. Also depends how big of a difference it is. Don't take a $30k/year pay cut just to find yourself or whatever, and don't go work at some 2 person firm that specializes in DUI defense or whatever because you think it's going to help you figure out what you want to do.

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:51 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Jay2716 wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Oh right, yeah definitely go with perks + salary at least 9 times out of 10. It will only really matter if you want to go back to that firm after graduation or something.


I also think working at a firm would help you figure out if you really want to be a lawyer. I think if an 0L is considering a firm job and can afford to take it's a good idea. People who worked at firms before LS also seemed to have a more coherent idea of what they wanted to do earlier, and I think that's also valuable.


I think that depends on what the firm does and what the role within it would be versus what the other job is, though. Also depends how big of a difference it is. Don't take a $30k/year pay cut just to find yourself or whatever, and don't go work at some 2 person firm that specializes in DUI defense or whatever because you think it's going to help you figure out what you want to do.


.
Last edited by aspire2esquire on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:00 pm

Yeah I'd take the position with better pay. Admin work isn't really going to help you figure out what you want to do with the law.

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Fiero85 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:14 pm

Yeah 25% more cash is the way to go IMO, you'll have plenty of time later to network and interact with lawyers and figure out your law school job outcome goals.

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aspire2esquire
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby aspire2esquire » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:37 pm

Cool thanks again.

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mornincounselor
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mornincounselor » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:19 pm

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Last edited by mornincounselor on Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jay2716
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Jay2716 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:47 pm

Lots of people do. It's a bad idea. If you're patent bar eligible with good work experience you're probably good, otherwise I think it's really risky without ties to and a desire to work in Missouri (and a willingness to do small/mid sized firm work).

Eta- And even in that case, I would only go to WUSTL without a desire to stay in the area if I were a splitter. If you have a salvageable gpa, pick a peer school for cheap/free in your region.

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mornincounselor
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mornincounselor » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:07 am

No ties anywhere, no real preferences.
Last edited by mornincounselor on Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jay2716
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Jay2716 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:49 am

With no ties I would really shoot for a T14. NYC/DC is the only safe bet without ties, and WUSTL doesn't give you a lot of room for error there. You're going to have a tough time doing much else in your situation. If you think you might want to live somewhere else, the best thing you could do is move somewhere, try it out, and establish ties before law school. Do Teach For America, drive for Uber, tend bar. Then you'll know and have ties. Otherwise you need to accept that getting anything other than NYC will take a lot of luck.

FWIW I know several people who did just that: they moved, got a job, and worked for a coupke of years. Not one regrets it.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby RareExports » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:31 pm

mornincounselor wrote:Please don't quote.

Did anyone aiming for big law choose to attend WUSTL with a scholarship over bottom t14 schools? Would you do it again?
Preferably I am looking for people who did not have significant ties to the area prior to law school.

I am aiming for big law and do not have ties to STL. I chose WUSTL over Duke and Michigan with about half-tuition scholarships. I don't regret my decision yet, but I might if my grades aren't where I would like them to be. I'm quite debt-averse, and if you're not, your calculations should probably be a little different.

acr
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby acr » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:37 pm

Current 1L. I would not recommend WUSTL at all for big law. I have absolutely no faith in our CSO after a couple meetings with them. Obviously it still comes down to grades, but CSO will not be doing you any favors.




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