WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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AceDeuces
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby AceDeuces » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:25 pm

Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

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AceDeuces
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby AceDeuces » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:36 pm

AceDeuces wrote:Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

Not really weird. It seems reasonable for the top few people to regress to the mean a bit. Higher GPAs are harder to maintain/easier to mess up.

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Fiero85 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:42 pm

AceDeuces wrote:Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?


Just a flatter curve kinda thing, I think. Relatively more people sliding from the very top than the other brackets.

(scooped)

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AceDeuces
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby AceDeuces » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:49 pm

hoos89 wrote:
AceDeuces wrote:Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

Not really weird. It seems reasonable for the top few people to regress to the mean a bit. Higher GPAs are harder to maintain/easier to mess up.



Word. It just seems looking back historically that 3.76 for instance is relatively high for the 20% cutoff, but it might be because the class is larger.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:03 pm

AceDeuces wrote:Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:06 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
AceDeuces wrote:Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).


.02 is actually a fairly significant difference (a few cutoffs moved .03 for c/o 2015). That's a pretty significant difference for a lot of people; it's pretty much like moving up a cutoff. You have to realize that part of the idea behind the current grading system is to make the differences between people a lot smaller. On the old scale, .03 was .50.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:11 pm

hoos89 wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
AceDeuces wrote:Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).


.02 is actually a fairly significant difference (a few cutoffs moved .03 for c/o 2015). That's a pretty significant difference for a lot of people; it's pretty much like moving up a cutoff. You have to realize that part of the idea behind the current grading system is to make the differences between people a lot smaller. On the old scale, .03 was .50.

Yeah fair I forget how tight it is. Well there will be quite a few of us taken off the curve, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. Me leaving personally won't really help anyone though unfortunately.

bluedolphin
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby bluedolphin » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:14 pm

What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:28 pm

bluedolphin wrote:What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.


Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby LET'S GET IT » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:18 pm

hoos89 wrote:
bluedolphin wrote:What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.


Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.


If you are diverse, you may have better luck getting screeners with not as great grades too.

Georges_Valere_Roux
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Georges_Valere_Roux » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:41 pm

hoos89 wrote:Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.



Any upperclassmen/graduates care to comment on their biglaw IP job search? Or second-hand if you have IP friends/acquaintances?

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nachosrgood
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby nachosrgood » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:51 pm

Are all RA positions paid? Anyone apply for one before? What would you include in the cover letter if you have had the professor in a couple classes, one of which is a seminar which is the area of research you would be doing?

WheatThins
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby WheatThins » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:59 pm

bluedolphin wrote:What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.


Top 20-25% should get you a decent number of interviews. Good work experience should get you more. Under top third, without any diversity or anything interesting on your resume and you're pretty SOL.

Chicago interview program is much harder to get interviews. DC is about the same as NY in terms of screeners.

Note: This was for previous year's classes. Might be tougher with larger class sizes.

mme182
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mme182 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:54 pm

What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:53 pm

mme182 wrote:What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?

Rising 2L but sounds like you should be good to get NYC biglaw if you know how to interview based on last year's results.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:54 pm

mme182 wrote:What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?


Strong, but regardless of where you are in the class take nothing for granted. Mass-maill starting in early to mid July.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:52 am

..

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:33 am

Yeah we do the Chicago walkaround with a lot of other schools. To give you an idea: there was someone who was top 10% at Iowa in that thread last year who got ZERO screeners. In DC there are just fewer firms that go to the programs (compared to NYC) so volume is harder to get, but I think the grade range is comparable.

Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls)


And anecdotally, your mileage will vary. Last year I had a ton of trouble in NYC for whatever reason but ended up doing better in other cities. Your best bet is to be geographically flexible, apply anywhere you think you can convince a firm you want to be, and mass-mail early and often (and follow-up every few weeks). NYC and DC are generally no-brainers (they really don't care that much about ties), and just about everyone should be applying to St. Louis firms even knowing how much crap they'll give you if you're not from there.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:00 pm

hoos89 wrote:Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls).

It looks bleak to me tbh. Are we allowed to post the lists?

WheatThins
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby WheatThins » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:15 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls).

It looks bleak to me tbh. Are we allowed to post the lists?


Why wouldn't you new allowed to post the lists?

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:03 pm

2015 2L Fall Recruiting:

LA Walk Around:
-DLA Piper
-Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Mitchell (Resume Collect)
-Kirkland & Ellis
-Raines Feldman (Orange County Only)
-Rutan & Tucker (Resume Collect)

EIW:
-Allen & Overy (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Andrews Kurth (Houston, Dallas) (Resume Collect)
-Armstrong Teasdale (STL)
-Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz (multiple offices)
-Baker Hostetler (multiple offices)
-Bickel & Brewer (Dallas, NY) (Resume Collect)
-Briggs & Morgan (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Brinks Gilson & Leone (multiple offices)
-Bryan Cave (STL)
-Burr & Forman (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Charlotte)
-Calfee, Halter & Griswold (Cleveland) (Resume Collect)
-Carmody MacDonald (STL)
-Chapman & Cutler (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-Cole Schotz (NJ) (Resume Collect)
-Dinsmore & Shohl (multiple offices)
-Epstein Becker & Green (NY, DC) (Resume Collect)
-Faegre Baker Daniels (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Fennemore Craig (multiple offices)
-Fish & Richardson (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Foley & Lardner (multiple offices)
-Frost, Brown Todd (multiple offices)
-Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Gilmore & Bell (STL, KC)
-Godfrey & Kahn (Milwaukee) (Resume Collect)
-Greenberg Traurig (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Greensfelder, Hemker & Gale (STL)
-Hall Estill Hardwick Gable Golden & Nelson (Tulsa, Oklahoma City) (Resume Collect)
-Hunton & Williams (multiple offices)
-Husch Blackwell (STL)
-Ice Miller (Columbus)
-Kenyon & Kenyon (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
-Knobbe, Martens, Olson & Bear (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Latham & Watkins (multiple offices)
-Lathrop & Gage (KC)
-Lewis Rice & Fingersh (STL)
-Lewis Roca Rothgerber (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Locke Lord (Dallas)
-Lowndes Drosdick Doster Kantor & Reed (Orlando) (Resume Collect)
-Maslon Edelman Borman & Brand (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Mayer Brown (DC) (Resume Collect)
-McAndrews, Held & Malloy (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-McGuireWoods (multiple offices)
-Monsanto (STL)
-Morris, Nichols, Arsht & Tunnell (Wilmington) (Resume Collect)
-Morrison & Foerster (multiple offices)
-Norton Rose Fulbright (STL) (Dallas, Houston - Resume Collect)
-Perkins Coie (Chicago)
-Polsinelli (STL)
-Proskauer Rose (LA) (Resume Collect)
-Ropes & Gray (multiple offices)
-Sandberg, Phoenix & von Gontard (STL)
-Schiff Hardin (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Seigfreid Bingham (KC)
-Senniger, Powers (STL)
-Shook, Hardy & Bacon (KC)
-Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (multiple offices)
-Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (Hong Kong, Tokyo) (Resume Collect)
-Snell & Wilmer (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Spencer, Fane, Britt & Brown (KC)
-Stinson Leonard Street (multiple offices)
-Taft, Stettinius & Hollister (multiple offices)
-The Procter & Gamble Company (Cincinnati) (Resume Collect)
-Thompson & Knight (Dallas)
-Thompson Coburn (multiple offices)
-Thompson Hine (multiple offices)
-Vedder Price (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-Vinson & Elkins (multiple offices)
-Vorys, Sater, Seymour & Pease (Columbus) (Resume Collect)
-Whyte Hirschboeck Dudek (Milwaukee, Madison) (Resume Collect)
-Wiggin & Dana (New Haven) (Resume Collect)
-Willkie Farr & Gallagher (DC) (Resume Collect)
-WilmerHale (DC) (Resume Collect)
-Winston & Strawn (Chicago)

TX Walk Around:
-Arnold & Porter (Houston)
-Baker Botts (Houston)
-Beck Redden (Houston, Austin) (Resume Collect)
-Hogan Lovells (multiple offices)
-Jackson Walker (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Jones Day (Dallas, Houston)
-Kirkland & Ellis (Houston)
-Norton Rose Fulbright (Houston, Dallas)
-Paul Hastings (Houston)
-Sidley Austin (Dallas)
-Winstead (Dallas)

Seattle Walk Around:
-Davis Wright Tremaine (Seattle, Portland)
-Miller Nash Graham & Dunn (Portland)
-Perkin Coie (Seattle)

OCI Session 1:
-Dykema Cox Smith (San Antonio, Dallas) (Resume Collect)
-HeplerBroom (STL, Edwardsville)
-KPMG (STL)
-Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe (DC) (Resume Collect)
-Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia (DC)

OCI Session 2:
-Deloitte (STL)
-Mathis, Marifian & Richter (Belleville)
Last edited by chuckbass on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:07 pm

That's more or less on par with previous years (~40 coming on campus). I also wouldn't be surprised to see a few late adds. MoFo and Ropes coming is interesting. Haven't seen that before.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:12 pm

hoos89 wrote:That's more or less on par with previous years (~40 coming on campus). I also wouldn't be surprised to see a few late adds. MoFo and Ropes coming is interesting. Haven't seen that before.

The NYC list isn't up yet, but to me it just looks like there are way too many resume collections and not enough actual interviews.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:39 pm

That's how it always is. Also the NYC list will be on two separate simplicity websites (SEMW and Midwest-Cali).




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