WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Spikedude wrote:I thank my lucky starts every day for the fact that I didn't get property with Mandelker. The amount of criticism Konig gets is unjustifiable, the most people can complaint about is a personal preference against his teaching style.

I thank my stars every day that i'm not on three curves with you per semester.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:37 pm

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:41 pm

Mandelker is awesome for kids who don't give a shit. I was literally on buzzfeed every single lecture and was learning Property while i was taking the exam.

His exam is so easy and gives you so much time to accomplish so little that it's hilariously easy to do decent with minimal effort. If you're gunning for an A+ in Property then having Mandelker sucks. But it worked out for me because having Mandelker essentially made it so i only had to study for two finals instead of three. Just kill the other two finals and do decent on Mandelker and it'll all be good.

Just compile a shit ton of outlines, synthesize them or catalogue them so u can find topics easily during the exam.

Spikedude
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Spikedude » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:30 pm

sublime wrote:
Since nobody has had both, it is a bit of a pointless discussion, isn't it?

I got what would be called a "good grade" on his exam.

And unless you are one of those two, which the chances of you being are low, that is a negative.


Dude apparently got 5 good reviews on his evals. It isn't just me, people who didn't do well, or a preference against his teaching style.


So you're saying that a discussion that involves an aspect of something you haven't personally experienced is a "pointless discussion"? By that definition than almost every discussion is pointless, great argument.

Also, all of the people who gave him a negative review could have done so because they didn't like his teaching style, so that statistic is irrelevant to disproving my point.

The most interesting statistic in my perspective is that, of all the people who allegedly gave Konig a bad review, you're the only one who constantly takes the time to bad mouth him in the forums. If you wanna offer constructive criticism on how to do well in Konig's class despite what you believe to be his poor teaching skills, go right ahead.

Posting hateful and negative comments just looks poorly on you, not Konig.

P.S. I'm done discussing this, back to studying.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:39 pm

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Spikedude
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Spikedude » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:59 pm

sublime wrote:I believe others have made comments on him, such as "I feel sorry for anybody who has Konig at 8am"

And no, they couldn't have gotten a bad grade on exams then given a bad eval, because the eval window was closed by that time.

The topic comes up on occasion, I don't actively bring it up. And if my criticisms of Konig reflects poorly on me, how does your criticsm of Mandeleker, who you never even took, reflect on you?

Also, I don't give a shit how it reflects upon me on this bullshit message board.


I said I'm thankful I got Konig instead of Mandelker because, as cuse said and I agree with, getting an A+ in Mandelker is a more difficult task than in Konig. Thinking that one professor is better than the other for that reason isn't really a criticism, just a preference. So your implication that I criticized Mandelker isn't just wrong, it's a lie.

Lastly, you have 5000+ posts on what you call a "bullshit message board." I won't spell out what that necessarily implies about you because I believe you're smart enough to figure it out on your own.

Personally I think this forum is extremely helpful, so I have to disagree with you on that as well.

Discussion is over.

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:54 pm

Image

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:57 pm

lulz, 1L's during finals.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:59 pm

Birdnals wrote:lulz, 1L's during finals.

FYI I saw a wustl video that you're in and I died :lol:

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:02 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
Birdnals wrote:lulz, 1L's during finals.

FYI I saw a wustl video that you're in and I died :lol:

:lol: :lol:


fuck.

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chuckbass
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:04 pm

Birdnals wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
Birdnals wrote:lulz, 1L's during finals.

FYI I saw a wustl video that you're in and I died :lol:

:lol: :lol:


fuck.

I had actually seen it before I met you, saw it again recently and put two and two together.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Are we seriously arguing over property professors? Law students, man.

It doesn't really matter what you think of your professor. 1) Because it was assigned and you didn't choose him/her. 2) Everybody is being graded on a curve.

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:22 pm

goldeneye wrote:Are we seriously arguing over property professors? Law students, man.

It doesn't really matter what you think of your professor. 1) Because it was assigned and you didn't choose him/her. 2) Everybody is being graded on a curve.


Image

well.. it does until you're assigned one. After that, deal with it.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:32 pm

goldeneye wrote:Are we seriously arguing over property professors? Law students, man.

It doesn't really matter what you think of your professor. 1) Because it was assigned and you didn't choose him/her. 2) Everybody is being graded on a curve.


I think you're misunderstanding what curving does. Curving just prevents one professor from giving out all As or all Cs; it doesn't mean that students will fall along the curve in the same way they would in another class. If you give an exam that isn't really valid for showing how good you are at knowing and applying the law of property, then it's results are still random whether you curve it or not. If I gave you an exam that said "I'm thinking of a number from 1-100" and gave students raw points based on how close they were, and then curved it to a mean, the fact that I curved it wouldn't make the exam any less meaningless and arbitrary. True Mandelker's exam isn't THAT ridiculous, but it's pretty dumb.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:14 pm

MANDELKER IS THE BESTTTTT

Image

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Unagi
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unagi » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:09 pm

Mandelker's class isn't engaging, but his exam is actually very simple if you listen to him and understand the subtle differences between the cases.
Different professors will have different teaching styles and exams. If all you care about is your grade, you just have to learn how your professor is and adapt to his style. Some students will perform better than others, not necessarily because they know more, but maybe because they know how/what to write for that particular professor.

If you actually care about the "law school experience" and being challenged and all that, then criticizing and hoping for better professors makes sense. But I get the impression a lot of people just bitch around because they feel they didn't get the grades their brilliant minds deserved. I got fucked on ConLaw, and I admit my exam was horrible. I don't blame it on the professor. And I understand coming on here right after you get your grade and complaining about the professor - you just got your grade, you're upset... but to continue complaining forever is just sad.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:36 pm

Too bad it's totally fair to blame Mandelker for a bad grade. I'm glad you did well on his exam, but even other professors have acknowledged that it's an absurdity. Lots of people will have one bad grade in some class during 1L, but for so many people to have their one bad grade be in that one class with that one professor is, at best, suspect, especially given the structure of his exam. Maybe I just believe a little too much that things should be fair, but to put so much stake on whether someone gets randomly assigned to a particular professor seems kind of nuts to me.
Last edited by hoos89 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:41 pm

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:51 pm

hoos89 wrote:Too bad it's totally fair to blame Mandelker for a bad grade. I'm glad you did well on his exam, but even other professors have acknowledged that it's an absurdity. Lots of people will have one bad grade in some class during 1L, but for so many people to have their one bad grade be in that one class with that one professor is, at best, suspect, especially given the structure of his exam. Maybe I just believe a little too much that things should be fair, but to put so much stake on whether someone gets randomly assigned to a particular professor seems kind of nuts to me.

To call it "unfair" is a bit of a stretch though.

Law school as a whole is "unfair" to people who don't do well on 3 hours issue spotter exams. It's unfair for people who are bad at 24 hour take homes to get Magarian, and "unfair" for people who are bad at closed book tests to get a professor that tests that way. Or "unfair" if you are in a section with an above average number of people who do well on la school exams. Every year, people find a way to be at the top of their class regardless of professors/sections. Saying "Call me crazy, I just believe things should be fair" when you are talking about the law school setting is kinda ludicrous if you have been around long enough to know nothing about the system is "fair" but it's the best thing we have.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Also, getting up in arms over opinions of professors is dumb.



BUT DINNER IS THE BEST PROPERTY PROFESSOR AND I WILL FIGHT ANYBODY WHO DISAGREES!!!!!!!!!!!!

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:05 pm

Birdnals wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Too bad it's totally fair to blame Mandelker for a bad grade. I'm glad you did well on his exam, but even other professors have acknowledged that it's an absurdity. Lots of people will have one bad grade in some class during 1L, but for so many people to have their one bad grade be in that one class with that one professor is, at best, suspect, especially given the structure of his exam. Maybe I just believe a little too much that things should be fair, but to put so much stake on whether someone gets randomly assigned to a particular professor seems kind of nuts to me.

To call it "unfair" is a bit of a stretch though.

Law school as a whole is "unfair" to people who don't do well on 3 hours issue spotter exams. It's unfair for people who are bad at 24 hour take homes to get Magarian, and "unfair" for people who are bad at closed book tests to get a professor that tests that way. Or "unfair" if you are in a section with an above average number of people who do well on la school exams. Every year, people find a way to be at the top of their class regardless of professors/sections. Saying "Call me crazy, I just believe things should be fair" when you are talking about the law school setting is kinda ludicrous if you have been around long enough to know nothing about the system is "fair" but it's the best thing we have.



There's a difference between that sort of random noise and systematic unfairness though. The school tries to make the sections even as best it can, but sometimes different sections might be stacked, and that sucks but it's not something that is intentionally being done. Also I'm not sure it's "unfair" for people who do poorly on issue spotters. For whatever reason, the people who mattered way back when decided that was the best way to do it, and that's just kind of the way it is. Is it true that people who do well on them are better lawyers? I don't really know, and maybe that is unfair. In my experience, people who do well also tend to seem to get the material better though, so for whatever that's worth I think issue spotters do at least a decent job of testing the material, and honestly that's kind of what tests are supposed to do. Either way, that's a known factor going in: you have to do well on issue spotters to do well in law school. As for Magarian: I haven't really seen any allegations that his exam is unfair.

Mandelker is a bit of a different beast though because he has a tendency to give people who otherwise do quite well in law school poor grades, and he does that to multiple people every year. One thing that seems to be true for the most part in law school is that people who do well on one exam tend to do well on other exams. That just doesn't seem to be the case with Mandelker's exam. Also, your statement that every year people FIND a way to be at the top of the class is a bit silly: someone has to be at the top. If you took the top 10 people in the class and put them in a different section 1L, how many do you really think would have still ended up in the top 10? Well that might depend on whether you gave them Mandelker.
Last edited by hoos89 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

corifornication
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby corifornication » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:17 pm

I know similar questions have been asked in this thread, but I'm still having a hard time understanding the whole situation: as someone who lives and is planning to work in California and who got into a couple mid-range law schools here, would attending WUSTL put me at a disadvantage? It's a considerably better school than any I got into here and they're offering me by far the most money, but I don't want to end up screwing myself work-wise. LST just says that not many students from WUSTL end up on the west coast, but I think it's different when you have ties there. Are there any graduates here who made it out of the Midwest successfully?

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:21 pm

Right, but I have to imagine there have been people who have done well on other exams AND on his test. And maybe the fact that people who tend to do well in other exams but don't do well on his exam is indicative that law school is unfairly biased against people who do well on his tests but not other professors' tests. It's not like he is giving out the best grades to dumb people (that I know of). What you call "random noise" seems like pretty systematic unfairness to me, it is just systematic unfairness people are more comfortable with because it has been around forever.

A large % of people in the top of the class do (comparatively) poorly in legal writing too, but that doesn't make it unfair to grade the subject.


I don't think sections who had him were underrepresented at the end of the year in the top 5-10%.


I agree with you that issue spotter are probably the best way to test the material, and I have benefited from the way law school/most exams are structured, but I'm not going to stand here and say there aren't people in most sections who are smarter and work harder than me but who I have better grades than. I am also sure I am smarter and work harder than some people with better grades than me. Law school isn't fair. You do what you can with what is given to you and hope for the best.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:21 pm

corifornication wrote:I know similar questions have been asked in this thread, but I'm still having a hard time understanding the whole situation: as someone who lives and is planning to work in California and who got into a couple mid-range law schools here, would attending WUSTL put me at a disadvantage? It's a considerably better school than any I got into here and they're offering me by far the most money, but I don't want to end up screwing myself work-wise. LST just says that not many students from WUSTL end up on the west coast, but I think it's different when you have ties there. Are there any graduates here who made it out of the Midwest successfully?


Definitely doable but it's going to have to be from hustle. There are not many firms that actively come to OCI from the west coast so it will be from mass mailing primarily and applying on your own.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:25 pm

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