WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:05 am

..

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:10 am

sublime wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Badawi's Corporations is pretty tough to get into as well. It waitlisted in about 30 seconds last year (not exaggerating).



Fuck, really? I figured that not that many people will get up at 730 am on a friday to register.


Everybody gets up a 7:30 to do it. The system grinds to a halt.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:12 am

..

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:23 am

sublime wrote:
goldeneye wrote:
sublime wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Badawi's Corporations is pretty tough to get into as well. It waitlisted in about 30 seconds last year (not exaggerating).



Fuck, really? I figured that not that many people will get up at 730 am on a friday to register.


Everybody gets up a 7:30 to do it. The system grinds to a halt.



Fucking a.

Any tips on how to get the classes you want aside from the obvious? And do the waitlists end up moving much?


Physics Advantage: Register while physically at the school, preferably on an ethernet connection as opposed to wireless.
Software Advantage: populate your registration worksheet before hand so you can just click to add
Strategy Advantage: add the most popular classes first. Add everything you can. Drop unwanted things later.

But oops, I guess those aren't advantages anymore since i posted them?

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:56 am

Physics Advantage: Register while physically at the school, preferably on an ethernet connection as opposed to wireless.
Software Advantage: populate your registration worksheet before hand so you can just click to add
Strategy Advantage: add the most popular classes first. Add everything you can. Drop unwanted things later.

But oops, I guess those aren't advantages anymore since i posted them?


Agree on all 3 strategies but some of the computers at school are very slow. Populating the registration worksheet is clutch: there's actually a youtube video somewhere that shows how to register for classes in webstac that I found helpful. And definitely just keep adding classes-- you get up to 19 I believe.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:07 am

..

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:42 am

Here's that video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9pfxtt2y_E

I didn't go either time. Fall I ended up on wait lists. Spring got them all. Interesting factor might be that your class is is much smaller so maybe there is room for everyone.

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mountaintime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mountaintime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:13 am

random class recommendations:

Health Law with Sepper: sucked, but I think I had her her first semester at WashU, also a strict attendance policy
Corporations with Burson: more narrow than the Badawi version, also Burson just isn't as good of an instructor. Burson is a practitioner, not an academic. Badawi is pretty cool; I had him for another course.
Evidence with Rosen: a perfect LS class... you learn useful stuff, he's a good instructor and focuses on the practical instead of the academic, and as someone said earlier, there is basically no reading for this class
Sale: good, but demanding. she's good, but maybe not worthy of her cult-like following.
Employment Law with Crain: good class, good instructor, she outlines on the board at the beginning of each class, which is surprisingly helpful
Law and Econ with DeGeest: probably a good class for someone with little to no econ experience, if you did econ UG, it's pretty easy to get an A without much effort, but you will find class tedious. if you don't know basic econ, you may struggle in this class.
I liked Davis for Trusts and Estates, but I heard that she doesn't teach it anymore.
Family Law with Appleton: okay
Hollander-Blumhoff: will put you to sleep
CJA1 with Quinn: good class and professor, easy material, but early in the morning and may have had a strict attendance policy

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bsktbll28082
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby bsktbll28082 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:54 am

Is it hard for transfers to get into classes?

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:26 am

Please answer bsktbll28082's question before mine, I don't mean to bury that question.

Is there a GPA/class rank floor to get screeners from the big St. Louis firms? I have one person's thoughts on this, just looking for added input (no offense to the current student I talk to about these things).

How high in the class does a local boy need to be to get a 2L SA at Bryan Cave? I'm not banking on being anywhere but median, but it would be nice to know if I surprise myself and do well.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:47 am

Ricky-Bobby wrote:Please answer bsktbll28082's question before mine, I don't mean to bury that question.

Is there a GPA/class rank floor to get screeners from the big St. Louis firms? I have one person's thoughts on this, just looking for added input (no offense to the current student I talk to about these things).

How high in the class does a local boy need to be to get a 2L SA at Bryan Cave? I'm not banking on being anywhere but median, but it would be nice to know if I surprise myself and do well.

At Bryan Cave, even a local will need to be top 15-20% to get even a screening interview. And I don't think many outside the top 10% got call-backs or offers there.

I would say anything in the top third-25% will get a hometown kid screeners with a majority of the major St. Louis firms, but I wouldn't say a St. Louis local is really St. Louis Biglaw secure unless they are in the top 20-15% or so.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:49 am

I don't think any class rank alone makes you truly "biglaw secure," to be fair. Also, I seem to recall Bryan Cave interviewing something like 60 people last year.

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:09 am

Birdnals wrote:
Ricky-Bobby wrote:Please answer bsktbll28082's question before mine, I don't mean to bury that question.

Is there a GPA/class rank floor to get screeners from the big St. Louis firms? I have one person's thoughts on this, just looking for added input (no offense to the current student I talk to about these things).

How high in the class does a local boy need to be to get a 2L SA at Bryan Cave? I'm not banking on being anywhere but median, but it would be nice to know if I surprise myself and do well.

At Bryan Cave, even a local will need to be top 15-20% to get even a screening interview. And I don't think many outside the top 10% got call-backs or offers there.

I would say anything in the top third-25% will get a hometown kid screeners with a majority of the major St. Louis firms, but I wouldn't say a St. Louis local is really St. Louis Biglaw secure unless they are in the top 20-15% or so.


hoos89 wrote:I don't think any class rank alone makes you truly "biglaw secure," to be fair. Also, I seem to recall Bryan Cave interviewing something like 60 people last year.

Understandable on all accounts.

So birdinals, you think top third could open the door (obviously nothing is a lock) for Armstrong, Husch, and the like?

Hoos, Bryan Cave interviewed 60 people from Wash U, or 60 people total? Their St. Louis office seems to have had 45 or so 2L SA's.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:21 am

Biglaw secure is probably not the correct term, but if I found out somebody from St. Louis in the top 20-15% didn't get any offers from any of the big St. Louis firms, I would be genuinely surprised. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it is far from common. At that point you have the grades and ties to not be held back, and there was almost certainly some other reason for not getting an offer.

Also, as an aside, St. Louis biglaw firms hire a TOTAL of like, 50-60 kids a year for 2L SA's? Maybe slightly more, but not much. And when you consider SLU/Mizzou/Illinois kids at the very top of their class, along with St. Louis natives who went to t14 schools, there is a lot of competition for a pretty small amount of positions.


Where are you getting these Bryan Cave numbers from RB? Because NALP has them at around 11 at the St. Louis office http://nalpdirectory.com/employer_profi ... hCondJSON=


ETA: I would say top 1/3rd would at least get you screening interviews with most St. Louis firms, and probably at least a few callbacks. Everything else after that is a crap shoot.

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:50 am

Birdnals wrote:Biglaw secure is probably not the correct term, but if I found out somebody from St. Louis in the top 20-15% didn't get any offers from any of the big St. Louis firms, I would be genuinely surprised. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it is far from common. At that point you have the grades and ties to not be held back, and there was almost certainly some other reason for not getting an offer.

Also, as an aside, St. Louis biglaw firms hire a TOTAL of like, 50-60 kids a year for 2L SA's? Maybe slightly more, but not much. And when you consider SLU/Mizzou/Illinois kids at the very top of their class, along with St. Louis natives who went to t14 schools, there is a lot of competition for a pretty small amount of positions.


Where are you getting these Bryan Cave numbers from RB? Because NALP has them at around 11 at the St. Louis office http://nalpdirectory.com/employer_profi ... hCondJSON=


ETA: I would say top 1/3rd would at least get you screening interviews with most St. Louis firms, and probably at least a few callbacks. Everything else after that is a crap shoot.

I was probably looking at total firm SA slots, then. That's no bueno.

Well, shit. That doesn't seem nearly as rosy as I would like. I'm going to bust my ass either way, but I'd like to have a reasonably certain good chance of getting a STL 2L SA if my grades fall where I want them to.

Thanks for the help, birdinals.

edit: changed the word "certain" for accuracy

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:07 am

Ricky-Bobby wrote:Well, shit. That doesn't seem nearly as rosy as I would like. I'm going to bust my ass either way, but I'd like to have a reasonably certain good chance of getting a STL 2L SA if my grades fall where I want them to.

Thanks for the help, birdinals.

edit: changed the word "certain" for accuracy

That's just how the market is, nothing you can do to change it. I still think if you are a St. Louis Native who wants St. Louis Biglaw then WUSTL is the place to be (if the money is right).

T-14 grads have other options but I think lots of St. Louis firms look at them as a flight risk and that is a hard presumption to overcome in an insular/little man syndrome-esk market like STL. Mizzou gets shockingly little respect for a state flagship, and SLU is noticeably slipping. Both of which I think you have to be top 5%, or maybe top 10-15% with phenomenal interview/softs, to even get a callback at most of these firms.

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby chuckbass » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:28 am

Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:42 am

scottidsntknow wrote:Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?

Yes. The better the grades, the better the chance a firm will over-look lack of ties. It is by no means impossible. Just slightly harder.

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mountaintime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mountaintime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:44 am

hoos89 wrote:I don't think any class rank alone makes you truly "biglaw secure"


you are right about this. co2013 proved it.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby DoveBodyWash » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:18 pm

Birdnals wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?

Yes. The better the grades, the better the chance a firm will over-look lack of ties. It is by no means impossible. Just slightly harder.

It looks like firms are less paranoid for 2L SA's. Presumably because if you accept a 2L SA with them, your eggs are firmly in the STL basket since there's no opportunity for you to abandon them unless you reject your full-time offer. Whereas it's possible to take a 1L SA with them and then peace out for your 2L SA to a different market.

Have good grades, find employment in STL for your 1L summer (whatever it may be) as a way of pointing to your commitment to the area, and gun super hard at 2L OCI.

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:24 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?


Considering the outcomes of my class, the answer seems to be a resounding "No." I mean, I think I know one or two people from Kansas that got STL biglaw, but everyone else was from STL.

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mountaintime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby mountaintime » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:36 pm

JCougar wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?


Considering the outcomes of my class, the answer seems to be a resounding "No." I mean, I think I know one or two people from Kansas that got STL biglaw, but everyone else was from STL.


It seems to go: people from STL > people from elsewhere in the midwest (the closer to STL the better, but Chicago appears to almost be a negative) > people from other regions.

I can only think of one person who got STL biglaw from co2013 who had no meaningful ties to STL or the midwest.

edit: STL appears to be a bloodbath for non-midwestern WUSTL grads who missed STL biglaw.

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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Spikedude » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:41 pm

It's definitely possible to get a 1L SA in STL biglaw without any STL ties. It's difficult but I know of three people that accomplished it. 1 is from TX, 1 is from MI, and the other is from FL. All are minorities though.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:47 pm

cusenation wrote:
Birdnals wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:Do wustl students without any previous ties have a chance at STL biglaw?

Yes. The better the grades, the better the chance a firm will over-look lack of ties. It is by no means impossible. Just slightly harder.

It looks like firms are less paranoid for 2L SA's. Presumably because if you accept a 2L SA with them, your eggs are firmly in the STL basket since there's no opportunity for you to abandon them unless you reject your full-time offer. Whereas it's possible to take a 1L SA with them and then peace out for your 2L SA to a different market.

Have good grades, find employment in STL for your 1L summer (whatever it may be) as a way of pointing to your commitment to the area, and gun super hard at 2L OCI.


It's true that firms are less wary of 2L SAs without ties, but that's only because they are extremely wary of 1L SAs without ties. When people talk about STL being tough to break into without ties, they are generally referring to 2L SAs (1L SAs are tough out of WUSTL regardless). Firms are wary that someone will accept a 2L SA and then lateral in about 3 years, right before they would become profitable.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:50 pm

The reason for the dearth of 1L STL SA's going to non-St. Louis natives is only because there are so very few of those and the vast majority go to diversity hiring programs. I don't think it really effects chances much more than 2L SA's, it is just such a small sample it may appear that way.


I know of 4 off the top of my head from my class that had little-to-no St. Louis ties and not really even midwest ties that got 2L SA offers in St. Louis. I am sure there are a few more I just don't know about too. I think there is a lot of selection bias involved in it, as lots of the top people with the grades to overcome the ties issue tend to go to different/bigger markets.




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