WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
samfii
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby samfii » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:12 pm

thank you all for your responses, I definitely do need to remind myself to relax and just remember that It really is about numbers... I got swept up in today's WL massacre so I will definitely emphasize my continued interest. If you guys see a confused/nervous 0L walking around on a tour this week you'll know who I am :P

User avatar
Hannibal
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Hannibal » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:16 pm

samfii wrote:thank you all for your responses, I definitely do need to remind myself to relax and just remember that It really is about numbers... I got swept up in today's WL massacre so I will definitely emphasize my continued interest. If you guys see a confused/nervous 0L walking around on a tour this week you'll know who I am :P


Pretty sure that's how all 0Ls look

User avatar
fl0w
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:46 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:43 pm

samfii wrote:thank you all for your responses, I definitely do need to remind myself to relax and just remember that It really is about numbers... I got swept up in today's WL massacre so I will definitely emphasize my continued interest. If you guys see a confused/nervous 0L walking around on a tour this week you'll know who I am :P


If you are on tour and you get to sit in on a Civil Procedure class... it's my class. If you find out that's happening ahead of time and want to ask any questions afterward let me know. I'd be happy to answer.

For some reason they have people sit in on CivPro... it should be Criminal Law that they have you sit in on, but I guess CivPro is just "at the right time of day."

Field
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Field » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:30 pm

Thanks for the helpful answers! I sent in my check. Visiting WUSTL was a great experience. The faculty, staff and students made an excellent impression. It is a school that is going to continue to rise in the rankings.

User avatar
alexonfyre
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:00 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby alexonfyre » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:51 pm

Sorry to repost the same question, but does anyone have any info on the TLP? The only thing I have been able to read on it is the description on the WashU website.

User avatar
fl0w
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:46 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:04 pm

alexonfyre wrote:Sorry to repost the same question, but does anyone have any info on the TLP? The only thing I have been able to read on it is the description on the WashU website.


you should let us know what you are looking for. there's a lot of info at the website:
http://law.wustl.edu/tlp/

if what you are looking for isn't there, can you let us know what you are missing?

User avatar
alexonfyre
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:00 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby alexonfyre » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:24 pm

alexonfyre wrote:I searched the forums and ran through the thread, didn't see anything on this, but I apologize if I missed it:

Do you have any info on the TLP? What career paths do people there go down? What are the types of students that tend to do it? Any knowledge about the selectivity?

Thanks Romo!


It was sort of stuck back in there, easy to miss.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:38 pm

alexonfyre wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:I searched the forums and ran through the thread, didn't see anything on this, but I apologize if I missed it:

Do you have any info on the TLP? What career paths do people there go down? What are the types of students that tend to do it? Any knowledge about the selectivity?

Thanks Romo!


It was sort of stuck back in there, easy to miss.

Sorry, I missed this. I honestly don't know much about the TLP and I don't really have any info on it that isn't on the WUSTL webpage about it.

wasted98
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:00 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby wasted98 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:16 am

I think Romo provides very good information in regards to Wash U and St. Louis. I love it here. The city is great; there's lots of diversity, things to do, etc. Most importantly, there are plenty of ways to get involved in the community through service and pro bono, which for me definitely gave it a plus over other T25 midwestern schools like NDLS and U of I.

However, I think some of the information on here regarding salaries and employment prospects is misleading. Most likely, as a 1L here in the fall, you will find there is still a tale of two cities here at Wash U: those that have, and those that have not. I've met 2Ls and 3Ls here who heading for 8th Circuit clerkships, high profile PI jobs, big law like Sidley Austin, etc. However, I have almost met 2Ls who at this point do not have anything lined up for the summer and 3Ls who also do not have jobs yet.

Here, it seems that if you make law review and have good grades, the possibilities are endless...However, if you only make a secondary journal or have pretty good grades, it seems you won't get the same opportunities, but you will still be able to find a decent job for the summer and after school. Those people who have neither and are not either heavily involved in the advocacy program, know someone, or in the community are screwed at this point.

Also, don't assume that if you don't make law review and just have "good grades" that St. Louis firms are a given to fall back on. Many of the new associates at these firms like Thompson Coburn and Bryan Cave have "excellent" credentials such as law review and honors. Plus every St. Louis employer will ask you "the why St. Louis question" Jesus, I'm from Missouri (but not St. Louis) and I even get asked that! In general, you won't find many associates who are originally from lets say California or New York.

I hope that the hiring picks up, but I know for a fact that firms like SNR Denton and Thompson Coburn did not take many summer associates last year like maybe 1 2L and 1 1L, but hopefully they took more this year.

Having said that, I am still glad I came here because it was my best overall option. I had no problem finding a PI summer job, and most people I know are doing what they want this summer. It's an excellent educational opportunity at a prestigious university. I'm not too worried (of course I have a really large scholly).

Romo, you're doing a great job as 1L taking Questions, but I thought some of the information on here was a little too rosy...and in contrast to what I hear most often from students here and from employers. My god, Legal Services of Eastern Missouri takes in recent grads to work in their basement for free....

Some people on here are really really (like too) excited to make that 160k, but really come on like there's 270 people in our class. 10% is like 27, compared to like 240 or so who aren't going to do that.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:34 am

Thanks for the reply wasted, but I just want to say that I am in no way trying to over-inflate job prospects. All of my conclusions are based on NLJ data, and I have tried to remain as objective as possible in my presentation of WUSTL job prospects. Additionally, I have tried hard not to make any representations about jobs that I don't feel comfortable making, and I have said repeatedly (starting with my OP) that I am only a 1L and I don't have much info on the 2L and 3L job search.

But I can say with absolute certainty that the top 10% folks are not the only people getting 6-figure jobs, and that is just based on cold hard facts. In a good economy, the number of people getting NLJ firms ~30% (people who go straight to NLJ + those who clerk for a year or two), and in our current bad economy, that number has been more like 20% (again, NLJ 250 data + clerkships). Also, while there are no doubt many 2Ls and 3Ls still looking for jobs, many (I'd say most) employers do not follow the 2L SA---> permanent employment model. Many people will have to find a job after they take the bar. That's true anywhere.

Being outside of the top of the class makes things very difficult, and being in the bottom of WUSTL's class makes things incredibly hard. I have never said otherwise, and if I have or if I have implied otherwise, then I apologize for any confusion.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby beachbum » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:55 pm

While we're on the subject, what is your perception of STL Biglaw hiring? I'm becoming increasingly interested in practicing in my hometown (lower COL, lower billables, and near friends/family), and I'm not quite sure what to expect.

I'm admittedly pretty new on the subject (have some free time this semester, so I just started doing research). As far as I can tell, the big firms in town are Bryan Cave, Thompson Coburn, Armstrong Teasdale, Lewis Rice, Husch Blackwell, and SNR Denton; am I missing any? I've been able to speak with a few former Bryan Cave associates, but no one currently working in BigLaw. So any and all info/advice you all have on the general hiring environment and professional culture would be very helpful.

(Life-long STL resident, currently attending SLU, and will be headed to Duke in the fall).

User avatar
Hannibal
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Hannibal » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:43 pm

FWIW, at the career talk, even the Career Services people said that a large portion (I think they said about half) will not have a full time job lined up at graduation.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:57 pm

Hannibal wrote:FWIW, at the career talk, even the Career Services people said that a large portion (I think they said about half) will not have a full time job lined up at graduation.

I think half might even be a high estimate. I'd guess it is more like 30-40%. But again, this isn't that surprising when you consider that many (maybe most) jobs hire after you take the bar,

Make no mistake about it, there will be people who graduate from WUSTL who never work in a J.D.-required job. But this is true at any T20, and the majority of students will get employed.

And hopefully things are better for your class. I honestly think they will be better for mine, and anyone who knows me will tell you that I am about as pessimistic as they come.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:18 pm

beachbum wrote:While we're on the subject, what is your perception of STL Biglaw hiring? I'm becoming increasingly interested in practicing in my hometown (lower COL, lower billables, and near friends/family), and I'm not quite sure what to expect.

I'm admittedly pretty new on the subject (have some free time this semester, so I just started doing research). As far as I can tell, the big firms in town are Bryan Cave, Thompson Coburn, Armstrong Teasdale, Lewis Rice, Husch Blackwell, and SNR Denton; am I missing any? I've been able to speak with a few former Bryan Cave associates, but no one currently working in BigLaw. So any and all info/advice you all have on the general hiring environment and professional culture would be very helpful.

(Life-long STL resident, currently attending SLU, and will be headed to Duke in the fall).

Greensfelder, Senniberg Powers (sp?), Carmody McDonald, and Sandburg Phoenix all supposedly start around 100k or high 5-figures.

St. Louis has a decent sized legal market but it is not huge. Being from here is a huge bonus, and going to school here helps (although not as much as being from here). St. Louis is a pretty insular market and they want to know why you want to be here. Wasted is right about the class sizes recently... I know Thompson Coburn and Armstrong Teasdale have had very small classes (low single digits) the last few years, and Lewis Rice and Husch have been more in the range of maybe 5-6ish. Bryan Cave has exhibited more of a "big city" hiring model historically (hire a bunch and weed them out), but I know they've cut back a lot too.

That's all I really know, just the basics.

User avatar
soccerfreak
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:57 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:26 pm

I am interested in this "hometown bump" that keeps getting brought up. I grew up in Saint Louis and I'm currently at Mizzou, so I think I fit the category. Is it really that much easier to get a job in the city?

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby beachbum » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:
beachbum wrote:While we're on the subject, what is your perception of STL Biglaw hiring? I'm becoming increasingly interested in practicing in my hometown (lower COL, lower billables, and near friends/family), and I'm not quite sure what to expect.

I'm admittedly pretty new on the subject (have some free time this semester, so I just started doing research). As far as I can tell, the big firms in town are Bryan Cave, Thompson Coburn, Armstrong Teasdale, Lewis Rice, Husch Blackwell, and SNR Denton; am I missing any? I've been able to speak with a few former Bryan Cave associates, but no one currently working in BigLaw. So any and all info/advice you all have on the general hiring environment and professional culture would be very helpful.

(Life-long STL resident, currently attending SLU, and will be headed to Duke in the fall).

Greensfelder, Senniberg Powers (sp?), Carmody McDonald, and Sandburg Phoenix all supposedly start around 100k or high 5-figures.

St. Louis has a decent sized legal market but it is not huge. Being from here is a huge bonus, and going to school here helps (although not as much as being from here). St. Louis is a pretty insular market and they want to know why you want to be here. Wasted is right about the class sizes recently... I know Thompson Coburn and Armstrong Teasdale have had very small classes (low single digits) the last few years, and Lewis Rice and Husch have been more in the range of maybe 5-6ish. Bryan Cave has exhibited more of a "big city" hiring model historically (hire a bunch and weed them out), but I know they've cut back a lot too.

That's all I really know, just the basics.


No worries, that actually helps a lot. Hopefully going to school out-of-state won't hurt me too much, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Would definitely be nice to have a target market other than NYC, though.

wasted98
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:00 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby wasted98 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:56 pm

I think there's also Stinson and Polsinelli...but anyway, while many large firms hire new graduates almost exclusively from the SA program (i heard Joe Glynias from Husch say 95%), Don't forget that the 30-50% who are unemployed at graduation may want to go PI anyway. I heard today at a Public Interest program from a May 2010 graduate today say she worked for free as an intern for several months following graduation, but heck now's she's with the Civil Rights sections in DOJ in DC...not too shabby...although I got the sense she probably did more than alright in law school. Another alum I heard from worked for free 8 months after graduation at the Circuit Attorney's office (she was on Global Studies Law Review). So in short, there's nothing wrong with graduating without a job if you're making connections. The people I think are in deep trouble are those that lack the strong credentials and don't network.

User avatar
PSUFB1114
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby PSUFB1114 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:16 pm

How about WUSTL job prospects in Kansas City? (summer internships, post grad offers, salary data, etc.) Any insight will be greatly appreciated :D

User avatar
Rock Chalk
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:36 pm

.
Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PSUFB1114
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby PSUFB1114 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:42 pm

I'm from KC and fairly certain I want to end up there post JD. I was very impressed with WUSTL after visiting, and 90% sure I will attend. My current task is to obtain summer employment prior to starting in the fall. Any ideas on opportunities for 0Ls that will facilitate future employment during 1L summer?

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:43 pm

PSUFB1114 wrote:How about WUSTL job prospects in Kansas City? (summer internships, post grad offers, salary data, etc.) Any insight will be greatly appreciated :D

I was going to say, I'm going to defer to Rock Chalk (who is looking sharp today, I might add), but it looks like he got here before I did. That's a pretty good summary, and he knows more about it than I do. I think I already sort of addressed the KC market earlier in the thread too (and some others chimed in, IIRC). But definitely direct any other questions to Rock Chalk, because he knows far more than I do.

I'll also add that one of the nice things about being from KC and going to WUSTL is that you can target both markets. Most of the firms in STL have KC offices and vice-versa (Lewis Rice, Husch Blackwell, Polsinelli, etc.... I can't even think of an STL NLJ firm that doesn't have an STL office and vice-versa, but there may be a few). This makes it easier to sell that you're interested in both, and it also makes it easier for networking purposes. A friend of mine has a 1L SA at a big firm in KC, and I'm pretty sure she made a huge connection with their KC hiring partner during a networking event at the STL office.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:48 pm

PSUFB1114 wrote:I'm from KC and fairly certain I want to end up there post JD. I was very impressed with WUSTL after visiting, and 90% sure I will attend. My current task is to obtain summer employment prior to starting in the fall. Any ideas on opportunities for 0Ls that will facilitate future employment during 1L summer?

Honestly, almost none. Your 0L summer employment is very irrelevant to your 1L job search because it isn't full time employment. Maybe if you can intern at a firm or something you could keep the contacts going and work back there as a 0L, but no big firm is going to say "Wow, this guy worked a 3 month legal job as a 0L in a small firm! He's got a leg up." I'd say spend your 0L summer saving some money and having lots of fun. Don't worry too much about how doing X or Y is going to give you a leg up, because there is really nothing you can do work-wise at this point to change your employment prospects.

The one thing I do recommend is networking. It is never too early to start networking. Email some WUSTL alumni in KC and ask them their opinion, maybe grab coffee or do lunch or something. The nice thing about being a 0L (and to a lesser degree a 1L) is that you can get away with a little bright-eyed naivete. So I'd start doing that now, but other than that, don't fret too much over your 0L summer. Enjoy it while you can! See you in the fall.

User avatar
Rock Chalk
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:55 pm

.
Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:58 pm

I was trying to decide between KU and WUSTL for coming back to KC, and the people I talked with IRL overwhelmingly said WUSTL, FWIW. It was a bit sketchier when I was looking at WUSTL sticker, but with scholly it's almost a no-brainer.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 1L Taking Questions

Postby beachbum » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:10 pm

I noticed that many of the big firms in STL specifically mention (on their websites) hiring 1Ls into their summer associate programs; does this actually happen in practice, or is it so rare that it's not even worth considering?

I'm starting to think ahead to 1L summer (again, lots of time on my hands this semester), and it would be pretty incredible to nab a paying firm job in STL. But is it even an option for non-rockstar, non-URM 1Ls?

What kinds of summer jobs do WUSTL 1Ls get in St. Louis?

Thanks again for all the help and advice.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest