WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:29 pm

Dolphine wrote:Do LLM's/foreign students count towards the curve of death? I thought I heard somewhere they don't.


No, they don't.

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:34 pm

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Randomnumbers
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Randomnumbers » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:22 pm

Dolphine wrote:Do LLM's/foreign students count towards the curve of death? I thought I heard somewhere they don't.


They count towards the curve in each individual class. They are not included in the calculation for overall class percentile, as they are not in your "class".

Proof: Go count up how many people are included in the given grade distributions for any 1L class last year, add them up, compare them to number of 1L's actually in the class of 2015.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:37 pm

Correct. So for Legal Practice, if the LLM's all ace their memos, that is taken into account. But they are not calculated for overall ranking across sections.

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Unagi
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unagi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:43 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:
Dolphine wrote:Do LLM's/foreign students count towards the curve of death? I thought I heard somewhere they don't.


They count towards the curve in each individual class. They are not included in the calculation for overall class percentile, as they are not in your "class".

Proof: Go count up how many people are included in the given grade distributions for any 1L class last year, add them up, compare them to number of 1L's actually in the class of 2015.


I don't know if this is actually true.

I'm pretty sure LLMs (and not merely foreign students, since there are foreign JD students) are graded separately and their grades don't count towards the JD curve.

What happens later on is that a lot of LLMs transfer to the JD program. Once they transfer, they are required to take all 1L classes and since at that point they are regular JD students, their grades count towards the curve. And the difference in number that you said might come exactly from that - LLMs that transfer to the JD are not considered 1Ls, but they still take 1L courses and are factored in the curve.

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Unagi
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unagi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:55 pm

The LLMs have a "writing class" with Dean Cramer. I think it would be extremely unlikely that a LLM signs up for 2 writing classes at the same time. Chances are that if you have a foreign student in your legal practice class, he is a JD (either straight JD or transfer from LLM).

And one other thing, as a foreign JD, I think a lot of American are presumptuous as hell. I've been in the US for only a year and English is not my first language. Every time I'm called on, I get nervous and give some shitty answer. That says nothing about my ability to take an exam or write a memo. I'm pretty sure a lot of people in my class were happy that I was there and would help them with the curve. I've done extremely well so far, and I've actually got the second highest grade in my legal practice class. So basically, what I'm trying to say is don't be presumptuous and look down on people. You might be surprised.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:11 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Randomnumbers
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Randomnumbers » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:21 pm

I'm not going to take the time (because I don't care that much) but if you want to prove me wrong, the data is entirely at your fingertips. Look up any set of first year classes, and find out how many people in a year take, say, Con Law. A) Is it more than the number of 1L's in the class and transfer students who, for some reason, didn't take Con Law as a 1L at their school? B) If so, take a look at any one of those grade distributions that has more students in it than it should. Is everyone in that class part of the mandatory mean?

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:26 pm

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A shot in the dark
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby A shot in the dark » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:50 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
Michael Bluth wrote:Osgood would be so awesome. Holding court from the dean's office in his swimming trunks, feet up on the desk, waxing eloquent about the English Common Law.


So much this.


Enough talk. What can we do to make this happen? I say a series of coordinated streakers in red bathing suits run though the courtyard for important events. Students should wear short sleeve dress shirts and lay their blazers next to their seats in class.

This is a start. Keep rolling with my ideas.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:50 am

Osgood has to be at least considered. He's the former dean of Cornell Law and has been a college president before, too.

I'm also thinking Professor Crain might be considered. Heard she was looking for dean jobs elsewhere before Syverud retired. They made her Vice Provost to keep her there. I don't know if law school dean is a step down from vice provost, though.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:10 pm

JCougar wrote:Osgood has to be at least considered. He's the former dean of Cornell Law and has been a college president before, too.

I'm also thinking Professor Crain might be considered. Heard she was looking for dean jobs elsewhere before Syverud retired. They made her Vice Provost to keep her there. I don't know if law school dean is a step down from vice provost, though.


If Osgood, how quirky would our school become? I love that guy.

I like Professor Crain a lot, too. I didn't realize she was wanting to become a law school dean.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:10 am

bouakedojo wrote:I like Professor Crain a lot, too. I didn't realize she was wanting to become a law school dean.


I really love her too. I'm just speculating on her being considered, though. I don't know anything for sure. But they made her Vice Provost for a reason. She's very highly regarded, and she has a lot of political connections.

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objection_your_honor
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby objection_your_honor » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:43 pm

I've read huge portions of this thread. A couple of questions:

1. I wonder if anyone would care to talk about what the job situation is like among people in their class. I know this has been covered at different times in the thread (and I'm familiar with the LST data), but maybe time has contributed to a change in perspective.

2. Based on Romo's posts, the previous dean had been very candid in his discussions about the school's reputation and even USNWR rank. Do you expect this approach to continue in the future, now that the dean has left? Is WUSTL still attempting to ascend in rank and reputation?

Thanks in advance.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:42 am

objection_your_honor wrote:I've read huge portions of this thread. A couple of questions:

1. I wonder if anyone would care to talk about what the job situation is like among people in their class. I know this has been covered at different times in the thread (and I'm familiar with the LST data), but maybe time has contributed to a change in perspective.

2. Based on Romo's posts, the previous dean had been very candid in his discussions about the school's reputation and even USNWR rank. Do you expect this approach to continue in the future, now that the dean has left? Is WUSTL still attempting to ascend in rank and reputation?

Thanks in advance.


As far as the first, CSO has told both 2L and 3L that there are more people with jobs at this point in time that those in the same position last year but there is no way to actually confirm this. I would guess that out of the 200 or so 2L's, I would bet that 50-70 have summer positions lined up... that might even be high but to be honest, I'm not sure sure. 3L's can comment on the 3L situation, but as always, go to school where it is cheapest/best job rankings/city you like. Having less debt gives you more flexibility during the job search.

For 2, there hasn't really been any discussion regarding this, but I presume that sentiment will continue. The better the reputation, the more applications the school receives, which means more money for the school so I'm confident they won't shy away from initiatives to enhance the school. However, the LSAT probably will continue to drop given the overall law school applicant pool and who knows what effect that may have for the ranking.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:02 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:22 pm

hoos89 wrote:I kind of doubt that 25-33%+ have jobs.


What percentage do you think? If 90 employers came to campus for OCI, I would estimate that at least 1/2 gave out offers (yes I know some were resume collect but with all the OCI sessions, lets say 50%). So that's 40 people conservatively. Plus the NY and DC programs I bet gave out 10-15 offers total. Now we're at 50 people.

From mass-mailing, I would gather maybe another 5-10 total. So 55-60 people. So about 30%.

Granted this is all estimate since it's always through the grapevine as nobody talks about it.

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hoos89
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:08 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Either way, it's low.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:11 pm

hoos89 wrote:I kind of doubt that 25-33%+ have jobs.


I wouldn't be surprised. Between OCI, people who worked mid-sized/small firms last summer and are going back, PI people returning to 1L job, and diversity/IP fair hiring I would say 33% would be on the low end.

If we are talking strictly SA's then I would say it's between 15-20%.


Aside: Everybody I have kept up with who transferred out snagged a SA except 1 (who got a pretty prestigious PI job)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:24 pm

JCougar wrote:Osgood has to be at least considered. He's the former dean of Cornell Law and has been a college president before, too.

I'm also thinking Professor Crain might be considered. Heard she was looking for dean jobs elsewhere before Syverud retired. They made her Vice Provost to keep her there. I don't know if law school dean is a step down from vice provost, though.


Law School Dean is a step up from Vice Provost.

I've heard that the school is willing to/going to throw significant money for a big name, although i have not heard a name outside of internal speculation from faculty. Since that is entirely speculation and not from the search committee I think it would be irresponsible for me to comment on it. If I hear a legite rumor though I will post here :)

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sublime
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:37 pm

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Homelandsagreatshow
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:06 pm

If anyone here had Peggy Smith and would be willing to throw a couple test-taking tips/study tips (by way of PM) my way, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've read all of the relevant threads, so if it's on TLS, i've probably read it.

Thanks!

Dolphine
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Dolphine » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:49 pm

Class profile is finally out, numbers we have been hearing. Glad to hear they kept the 166.

Image

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:42 pm

166 and 3.69 is pretty good considering the dwindling applicant pool.




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