WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:10 am

Oh, and here's my one nugget of exam wisdom for you incoming 0Ls. It's not much, and you should listen to smart bros like TD before you listen to me, but I think this is a pretty important thing that a lot of 1Ls just gloss over.

Never just assume away an issue or cause of action. Break it down for the prof.

What I mean by that is, in order to rack up points on an exam, you have to hit the key buzzwords and phrases that the professor is checking off points for. You're not going to do that if you just write a conclusory statement and don't explain why that is the case. If you do that, you'll get an 80-something, and your buddy who wrote more than you will be taking home a 94, even if you both knew the material very well and are equally smart.

Example: The facts tell you that A hit B in the face. Don't say, "A committed battery by hitting B in the face" and call it a day. Sure, you recognized the tort, and yes, it was a battery. You'll snag a point or two, but you aren't going to get the same number of points for that part as the guy who says "A committed battery by hitting B in the face. The striking of A's fist into B's face was both harmful and offensive to B, and A intended to strike B in the face, which satisfies the intentional act requirement. Therefore, A has satisfied the elements of the tort of battery."

This is obviously a super simplistic example (battery is one of the most simple torts there is), but you get the point, and it applies to pretty much every 1L exam. The person who breaks it down for the professor, who doesn't just see the cause of action or issue and point it out, but actually breaks it down into its elements and defenses and explains both sides, that's the person who is going to consistently get A's. If you have Tamanaha, this is something he really harps on for his exam, and it was advice I was glad to get my 1L fall.

User avatar
hoos89
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:05 am

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:48 am

romothesavior wrote:Oh, and here's my one nugget of exam wisdom for you incoming 0Ls. It's not much, and you should listen to smart bros like TD before you listen to me, but I think this is a pretty important thing that a lot of 1Ls just gloss over.

Never just assume away an issue or cause of action. Break it down for the prof.

What I mean by that is, in order to rack up points on an exam, you have to hit the key buzzwords and phrases that the professor is checking off points for. You're not going to do that if you just write a conclusory statement and don't explain why that is the case. If you do that, you'll get an 80-something, and your buddy who wrote more than you will be taking home a 94, even if you both knew the material very well and are equally smart.

Example: The facts tell you that A hit B in the face. Don't say, "A committed battery by hitting B in the face" and call it a day. Sure, you recognized the tort, and yes, it was a battery. You'll snag a point or two, but you aren't going to get the same number of points for that part as the guy who says "A committed battery by hitting B in the face. The striking of A's fist into B's face was both harmful and offensive to B, and A intended to strike B in the face, which satisfies the intentional act requirement. Therefore, A has satisfied the elements of the tort of battery."

This is obviously a super simplistic example (battery is one of the most simple torts there is), but you get the point, and it applies to pretty much every 1L exam. The person who breaks it down for the professor, who doesn't just see the cause of action or issue and point it out, but actually breaks it down into its elements and defenses and explains both sides, that's the person who is going to consistently get A's. If you have Tamanaha, this is something he really harps on for his exam, and it was advice I was glad to get my 1L fall.


It's amazing how many people go into the exam not understanding this concept, or what law school exams are about at all, for that matter. If you embrace this advice, you'll be ahead of 90% of people. If you're actually good at it and can type fast, you'll be ahead of almost everyone.

User avatar
Birdnals
Posts: 4576
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:26 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:22 pm

romothesavior wrote:Oh, and here's my one nugget of exam wisdom for you incoming 0Ls. It's not much, and you should listen to smart bros like TD before you listen to me, but I think this is a pretty important thing that a lot of 1Ls just gloss over.

Never just assume away an issue or cause of action. Break it down for the prof.

This is obviously a super simplistic example (battery is one of the most simple torts there is), but you get the point, and it applies to pretty much every 1L exam. The person who breaks it down for the professor, who doesn't just see the cause of action or issue and point it out, but actually breaks it down into its elements and defenses and explains both sides, that's the person who is going to consistently get A's. If you have Tamanaha, this is something he really harps on for his exam, and it was advice I was glad to get my 1L fall.



Especially this. The people I know who did best on Tamanaha straight up broke every single element down to P will argue, D will argue. For example, on any negligence question they put

P Duty owed argument:
D Duty owed argument:
P What is Duty:
D What is Duty:
P Breach/BPL:
D Breach/BPL:


And so on for all the elements. Every person I know who did this at least got an A-. Also some professors want these arguments in paragraph form (Dinner/DeGeest), some want list form like above, and some don't care either way (Tamanaha). Do practice tests, bring them to the professor's office hours, and make sure you know which one they prefer. Doing easy to follow headings and the structure a professor wants can be the difference between an A and an A-

User avatar
Ubermaus
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Ubermaus » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:05 pm

Cellar-door wrote:Any suggestions on good places to get affordable/decent quality Mattresses and furniture in STL? (Stores that is not craigslist).

For people asking about furniture: St. Vincent De Paul. They've got three thrift stores situated 10-20 miles outside St. Louis, and it's worth the drive; I got a sturdy old bed and a desk and a dresser for $85. They don't deliver but if you look fragile somebody may offer to carry stuff to your vehicle. Plus, y'know, it's a charity, so presumably your purchases help somebody. And while the stores actually do carry brand-new crappy mattresses, you can get UPS to bring you a nice memory-foam one from Ebay for around $300. (Okay, not *nice* nice, but definitely memory foam. Law school causes enough suffering; you may as well sleep like a princess.)

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15411
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:09 pm

..

User avatar
hoos89
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby hoos89 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:41 pm

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15411
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:50 pm

..

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15411
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:57 am

..

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:07 am

sublime wrote:Does the WUSTL email come with a download copy of Outlook, or just the webapp?


The latter, unless something has changed.

TCR is to link up your WUSTL email with gmail and never use the crappy web app.

Randomnumbers
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:26 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Randomnumbers » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:49 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
sublime wrote:Does the WUSTL email come with a download copy of Outlook, or just the webapp?


The latter, unless something has changed.

TCR is to link up your WUSTL email with gmail and never use the crappy web app.


This is what I do. The only thing I would note is that gmail often will respond with 'sent by randomnumbers@gmail.com on behalf of randomnumbers@go.wustl.edu' instead of just pretending like it came from the wustl.edu address, so be careful doing that for professional emails. This is even more important if your gmail is reaperangeldeathman666@gmail.com. If you gmail IS something like that, get a professional email address asap.

User avatar
MarkinKansasCity
Posts: 10990
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:40 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
sublime wrote:Does the WUSTL email come with a download copy of Outlook, or just the webapp?


The latter, unless something has changed.

TCR is to link up your WUSTL email with gmail and never use the crappy web app.


This is what I do. The only thing I would note is that gmail often will respond with 'sent by randomnumbers@gmail.com on behalf of randomnumbers@go.wustl.edu' instead of just pretending like it came from the wustl.edu address, so be careful doing that for professional emails. This is even more important if your gmail is reaperangeldeathman666@gmail.com. If you gmail IS something like that, get a professional email address asap.


How'd you get my e-mail? And was it a mistake to mass-mail firms from this address?

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:11 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
sublime wrote:Does the WUSTL email come with a download copy of Outlook, or just the webapp?


The latter, unless something has changed.

TCR is to link up your WUSTL email with gmail and never use the crappy web app.


This is what I do. The only thing I would note is that gmail often will respond with 'sent by randomnumbers@gmail.com on behalf of randomnumbers@go.wustl.edu' instead of just pretending like it came from the wustl.edu address, so be careful doing that for professional emails. This is even more important if your gmail is reaperangeldeathman666@gmail.com. If you gmail IS something like that, get a professional email address asap.


It's been a while since I've done this, so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but there are two options for making gmail send emails from your school account. If you do it the right way (something about an alias? I can't really remember), it won't say "sent on behalf of."

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:47 pm

Can anyone who has had Trial with Joy (not sure who my section prof is yet) tell me whether we actually need the book? If so, anyone have an old one they want to sell me? 3LOL = no way I'm dropping $130 on a book.

jmls1987
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby jmls1987 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:03 pm

Does anyone know if Demun neighborhood is nice? Going to check out apartments there Saturday. Don't want to waste my time if it is rough

User avatar
dietcoke0
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby dietcoke0 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:48 am

Whoa, never even heard of that neighborhood. If it's where Google Maps places it (Just south of the school) then it's a good location. Nice buildings, the area when I've been there feels safe, not walkable though. But it's close to Delmar, across the park from CWE, near the park, and easy access to Clayton Road (super markets and other bigger stores) and Brentwood. The only issue is like I said, not walkable to social scene. However, if you don't mind taking cabs home from the night out, or if your pad is rocking enough where people want to hang out at your place more (I know a few like this) then depending on value to you, could be a good location.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Demun is very nice. It's near Forest Park, near school, and has a lot of charm. There's a nice little strip with some classy restaurants and bars (Demun Oyster Bar, Sasha's, Jimmy's) and a coffee shop. The apartments around there tend to be a little older, but they're pretty nice. Overall I think it's a quiet, pretty neighborhood.

jmls1987
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby jmls1987 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:00 pm

Thanks for the responses. Look forward to exploring St Louis tomorrow.

On a different note....how did you guys go about landing 2L SA positions ? OCI? Mass mail? I was advised not to waste time with mass mailing by WUSTL CSO. I did anyways and landed a couple of interviews. I have a phone interview next week and was wondering if anyone experienced this.

Any tips on how to obtain more interviews would be appreciated ! I dont mind hustling for interviews. I figured I would have to as a transfer. My goal is to work mid to large size firm.

Some general info about myself if it helps: Military, URM, Top 10% (Tier 4) .....any chance of landing SA?

User avatar
notedgarfigaro
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:00 pm

jmls1987 wrote:Thanks for the responses. Look forward to exploring St Louis tomorrow.

On a different note....how did you guys go about landing 2L SA positions ? OCI? Mass mail? I was advised not to waste time with mass mailing by WUSTL CSO. I did anyways and landed a couple of interviews. I have a phone interview next week and was wondering if anyone experienced this.

Any tips on how to obtain more interviews would be appreciated ! I dont mind hustling for interviews. I figured I would have to as a transfer. My goal is to work mid to large size firm.

Some general info about myself if it helps: Military, URM, Top 10% (Tier 4) .....any chance of landing SA?


wat?

Out that fucking person right now. That's objectively AWFUL advice.

User avatar
Homelandsagreatshow
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Homelandsagreatshow » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:11 pm

notedgarfigaro wrote:
jmls1987 wrote:Thanks for the responses. Look forward to exploring St Louis tomorrow.

On a different note....how did you guys go about landing 2L SA positions ? OCI? Mass mail? I was advised not to waste time with mass mailing by WUSTL CSO. I did anyways and landed a couple of interviews. I have a phone interview next week and was wondering if anyone experienced this.

Any tips on how to obtain more interviews would be appreciated ! I dont mind hustling for interviews. I figured I would have to as a transfer. My goal is to work mid to large size firm.

Some general info about myself if it helps: Military, URM, Top 10% (Tier 4) .....any chance of landing SA?


wat?

Out that fucking person right now. That's objectively AWFUL advice.




Agreed. I have a VERY hard time believing this, and if the person did say this, I definitely don't want to be involved with them

jmls1987
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby jmls1987 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:58 am

Homelandsagreatshow wrote:
notedgarfigaro wrote:
jmls1987 wrote:Thanks for the responses. Look forward to exploring St Louis tomorrow.

On a different note....how did you guys go about landing 2L SA positions ? OCI? Mass mail? I was advised not to waste time with mass mailing by WUSTL CSO. I did anyways and landed a couple of interviews. I have a phone interview next week and was wondering if anyone experienced this.

Any tips on how to obtain more interviews would be appreciated ! I dont mind hustling for interviews. I figured I would have to as a transfer. My goal is to work mid to large size firm.

Some general info about myself if it helps: Military, URM, Top 10% (Tier 4) .....any chance of landing SA?


wat?

Out that fucking person right now. That's objectively AWFUL advice.




Agreed. I have a VERY hard time believing this, and if the person did say this, I definitely don't want to be involved with them


I like the CSO I am working with. He/She just said that mass mailing was likely a waste of time in this economy, and that students should focus on building relationships. I understand where he/she was coming from.

On a different note....I had a good visit to St. Louis on Saturday. Really liked Clayton and Central West End areas. Demun was very close to campus ...but pricey ! Is Clayton supposed to be a better area to live than CWE?? Or about the same?

jmls1987
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby jmls1987 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:56 pm

Any input on best courses to take as a 2L? Best professors? Which professors to avoid?

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15411
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby sublime » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:01 pm

..

User avatar
dietcoke0
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby dietcoke0 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:18 pm

depends on class/prof. just compare reading with those with current editions.

User avatar
dietcoke0
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

Postby dietcoke0 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:14 am

I'd also back out of Civ Pro if possible, that probably should be up to date, since rules are always changing, and you'd be wasting your time reading full text of all those cases.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: asdfasdf8473 and 4 guests