WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:45 pm

lukertin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:PS... your ladyfriend story the other day was as shocking and appalling as it was funny and bizarre.

Lol, ikr? she sent me an incredibly long, rambling and incoherent e-mail this morning, too; this shit is just too much for me to deal with right now.

I just... I don't even... Wow...

I think the most incredible thing (well, besides her brazen and unabashed racism) is that she hid it for two months. I guess some people are just really good at hiding the fact they're objectively horrible human beings.

lukertin
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby lukertin » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:00 pm

romothesavior wrote:
lukertin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:PS... your ladyfriend story the other day was as shocking and appalling as it was funny and bizarre.

Lol, ikr? she sent me an incredibly long, rambling and incoherent e-mail this morning, too; this shit is just too much for me to deal with right now.

I just... I don't even... Wow...

I think the most incredible thing (well, besides her brazen and unabashed racism) is that she hid it for two months. I guess some people are just really good at hiding the fact they're objectively horrible human beings.

She wasn't outwardly racist. There was literally nothing in her actions or interactions with people that would make you think she was a Grand Wizardess of the KKK in training. That's probably what was so jarring to me...utterly out of left field and unexpected. I'm about to update that thread with her email, it's too good for TLS not to read it.

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unoriginalist » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:03 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Unoriginalist wrote:That's rough - if someone like you isn't convincing enough ties, what is? Haha. Seriously though, one of the major appeals to WUSTL for me is that it's in a market I wouldn't mind being in long-term. Any perspective on how high grades need to be to be warrant a second look by STL firms?

I don't mean to sound depressed or ungrateful or anything like that. I'm not unhappy by any stretch. I just share my experience with you to give you an idea of what things are like for many folks in that boat. I remember very well being in your shoes. I was all about staying in STL when I enrolled here.

I'd say top 20-25% is more or less a minimum for the biggest and best firms (Husch, TC, Cave, Lewis Rice, Armstrong, Polsinelli, Greensfelder, etc.) Of course there are exceptions, but I'd say that's about accurate for the average person with decent but not amazing ties. Of course there are exceptions, but if you aren't from the area, or you don't a compelling reason for wanting to stay like a house or a significant other or something, then I think top 10% is more realistically what you'll need (again, there are exceptions).


No, the perspective is definitely appreciated! Honestly, WashU sounds amazing, and I feel there are plenty of reasons to be there with or without STL firms being ties-obsessed. I just appreciate getting first hand accounts of what one can expect, and what options look like. Thanks, romo!

TatteredDignity wrote:
As another data point, my grades were very good, my wife now has a full time job here, and nobody was interested in me.


Stop/ignore me if this is too personal, but may I ask where you think you'll end up going, then? Your situation sounds like it could very well mirror my own.

Thanks!

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:08 pm

St. Louis is more than just insular. I mean it's that too, but I grew up here my entire life, and with decent grades could still hardly even get a screener, never mind a callback, that wasn't directly IP related. It's an extremely competitive market all-around.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:10 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:As another data point, my grades were very good, my wife now has a full time job here, and nobody was interested in me.

What? Seriously? Was this just 1L?

Henryn14
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Henryn14 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:13 pm

I have an upcoming interview with WashU. I was curious if anyone on here would have any tips as to what questions to expect. The only interview I have had was with a much lower ranked school and I expect WashU to be more in depth.

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unoriginalist » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:14 pm

Henryn14 wrote:I have an upcoming interview with WashU. I was curious if anyone on here would have any tips as to what questions to expect. The only interview I have had was with a much lower ranked school and I expect WashU to be more in depth.


Not a current student, but an applicant, but this is a new process that only began this year, to my understanding. It's been talked about here quite a bit - look around the early december posts for more info.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:17 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:
Henryn14 wrote:I have an upcoming interview with WashU. I was curious if anyone on here would have any tips as to what questions to expect. The only interview I have had was with a much lower ranked school and I expect WashU to be more in depth.


Not a current student, but an applicant, but this is a new process that only began this year, to my understanding. It's been talked about here quite a bit - look around the early december posts for more info.

+1, I don't think we can give you too much info since we didn't go through it, but I'll just say the admissions office is very nice and I can't imagine it being too intense. They probably just want to know more about you, why you're interested in the school, and provide you with more information for your potential decision.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:54 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:As another data point, my grades were very good, my wife now has a full time job here, and nobody was interested in me.

It's probably because you're scared to face me in Mario Kart.


OK, that is such a cheap shot. The one time I saw you in there, you ran outta there so fast claiming you had stuff to do... :evil:

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:02 pm

soccerfreak wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:As another data point, my grades were very good, my wife now has a full time job here, and nobody was interested in me.

What? Seriously? Was this just 1L?


Yeah, you actually make a good point. This was 1L, which probably isn't representative of anything. I didn't try for STL firms at 2L OCI.

Unoriginalist wrote:Stop/ignore me if this is too personal, but may I ask where you think you'll end up going, then? Your situation sounds like it could very well mirror my own.

Thanks!


Given the disclaimer above, you shouldn't worry about it. But it worked out ok, I'm going to a firm in KC which is where I'm from and would prefer to be.

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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Randomnumbers » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:45 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
Yeah, you actually make a good point. This was 1L, which probably isn't representative of anything. I didn't try for STL firms at 2L OCI.



As a 1L with very good grades and not from St Louis, local firms were completely uninterested in me for a 1L SA. A hiring partner from one of the big St Louis firms basically told me outright that, without ties, I had absolutely no shot at a 1L gig, but that I'd be competitive for 2L.

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dproduct
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby dproduct » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:34 am

Randomnumbers wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Yeah, you actually make a good point. This was 1L, which probably isn't representative of anything. I didn't try for STL firms at 2L OCI.



As a 1L with very good grades and not from St Louis, local firms were completely uninterested in me for a 1L SA. A hiring partner from one of the big St Louis firms basically told me outright that, without ties, I had absolutely no shot at a 1L gig, but that I'd be competitive for 2L.


:shock:

luckyduck
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby luckyduck » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:15 am

Just want to add to the ties conversation.

Not from STL, good grades, previous work experience. Bought a house, enrolled kids in local school. Couldn't convince any STL firms that I wanted to stay. So even purchasing property doesn't help with ties.

My two cents - if you come to WUSTL don't plan on staying in the area. This isn't to say that is a bad thing - just the reality.

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Unoriginalist
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Unoriginalist » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:01 am

luckyduck wrote:Just want to add to the ties conversation.

Not from STL, good grades, previous work experience. Bought a house, enrolled kids in local school. Couldn't convince any STL firms that I wanted to stay. So even purchasing property doesn't help with ties.

My two cents - if you come to WUSTL don't plan on staying in the area. This isn't to say that is a bad thing - just the reality.


Mind=blown

Thank you for the perspective. That's ridiculous... Is there any way to tell that ties is the issue in their (non)selection? Do they come out front and say "We're not sure you'll be here in four years" or is it an educational deduction?

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Xs20
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby Xs20 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:22 am

luckyduck wrote:Not from STL, good grades, previous work experience. Bought a house, enrolled kids in local school. Couldn't convince any STL firms that I wanted to stay. So even purchasing property doesn't help with ties.

:shock: What the hell ARE good enough ties then? Are the jobs going to other WUSTL students with better ties, or are SLU and returning T14 kids snagging them?

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:42 am

Xs20 wrote:
luckyduck wrote:Not from STL, good grades, previous work experience. Bought a house, enrolled kids in local school. Couldn't convince any STL firms that I wanted to stay. So even purchasing property doesn't help with ties.

:shock: What the hell ARE good enough ties then? Are the jobs going to other WUSTL students with better ties, or are SLU and returning T14 kids snagging them?


sadly, that's only the second worst story I've heard about "ties not being good enough"...unfortunately I can't tell the worst b/c it would out someone, but damn, it was ridiculous.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:55 am

To be fair, there are counterexamples. I have a good friend (with great grades) who did the whole "buy a house, enroll kid in school" thing who has a great job here lined up, and know several others (with lesser grades) with less ties than that who were also successful.

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stratocophic
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:41 pm

soccerfreak wrote:To be fair, there are counterexamples. I have a good friend (with great grades) who did the whole "buy a house, enroll kid in school" thing who has a great job here lined up, and know several others (with lesser grades) with less ties than that who were also successful.
Ditto, problem overall is just that there are no jobs here. Suspicion's definitely part of it, but St. Louis is a city with a disproportionately small Biglaw presence (Phoenix is another, I think Nashville is arguable because it's a decent sized city with nothing but midlaw depending on one's feelings on Baker Donelson, and Chicago has become one since ITE). Sucks for people whose ties are to StL because they lose a useful interviewing tool, but other Midwestern cities' willingness to take on refugees seems to make up for it a little bit.

luckyduck
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby luckyduck » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Unoriginalist wrote:
luckyduck wrote:Just want to add to the ties conversation.

Not from STL, good grades, previous work experience. Bought a house, enrolled kids in local school. Couldn't convince any STL firms that I wanted to stay. So even purchasing property doesn't help with ties.

My two cents - if you come to WUSTL don't plan on staying in the area. This isn't to say that is a bad thing - just the reality.


Mind=blown

Thank you for the perspective. That's ridiculous... Is there any way to tell that ties is the issue in their (non)selection? Do they come out front and say "We're not sure you'll be here in four years" or is it an educational deduction?


It was a factor in not hiring me based on feedback. I got a good job in my 3L year (in another market) so I am not one of those "unhireable" people. Before law school I never interviewed for a job that I didn't get. I do think it is a product of the bad legal market in addition to the ties thing.

My story is anecdotal, and I am sure there are others like me who had luck. I think students should come here knowing that, while STL is a possibility, it's remote unless you went to high school here or have family here.

TheZoid
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TheZoid » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:06 pm

Curious if anyone knows anything about the NY interview program. Things I'm interested in would be what firms are there, what kind of grades do you need to land something (not necessarily at the elite firms), and how we do overall in NY (I know we don't place a high percentage, but is that self-selection or inability). I've heard of at least a handful of kids going to V10/15 firms, but I'm curious what the chances are of landing something for someone with good but not great grades.

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:33 pm

TheZoid wrote:Curious if anyone knows anything about the NY interview program. Things I'm interested in would be what firms are there, what kind of grades do you need to land something (not necessarily at the elite firms), and how we do overall in NY (I know we don't place a high percentage, but is that self-selection or inability). I've heard of at least a handful of kids going to V10/15 firms, but I'm curious what the chances are of landing something for someone with good but not great grades.


In general, need to be top 20% to get any interviews through the NY interview program, same with DC (at least for firms). The better your grades, the more interviews you'll pick up. If you've got great grades, you'll clean up there.

In reality, unless you're in the top 15% (and closer to 10 than 15), I wouldn't expect much from the program. There was a decent crowd there from WUSTL this year, but a lot of people only had one or two interviews, and then a few had full days. It's a nice program, but you really need the grades. It's also a good thing to use for mass mailing NY firms...i.e. "I will be in town on XXX dates"

A shot in the dark
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby A shot in the dark » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:41 pm

Can think of several current 2Ls who are not from Saint Louis but got firm jobs here...just wanted to offset some of the gloom and doom of previous pages about wanting to be in STL without ties. I will agree that people from Saint Louis are really defensive about their city.

Haven't applied for jobs in Saint Louis, but here is an average convo I've had with stl firm attorney:

Atty: You like Saint Louis?

Me: Yeah, you know, it's not bad. I really like Central West End, Soulard. People are very friendly.

Atty: So you hate it.

Me: No, no, like I said, the people are gr--

Atty: YOU HATE IT HERE AND YOU KNOW IT.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:58 pm

TheZoid wrote:Curious if anyone knows anything about the NY interview program. Things I'm interested in would be what firms are there, what kind of grades do you need to land something (not necessarily at the elite firms), and how we do overall in NY (I know we don't place a high percentage, but is that self-selection or inability). I've heard of at least a handful of kids going to V10/15 firms, but I'm curious what the chances are of landing something for someone with good but not great grades.

Don't know too much about it myself, but I have been surprised at the number of people I talk to who did get jobs through it (including people not in the top 10%).

TheZoid
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby TheZoid » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:40 pm

notedgarfigaro wrote:
TheZoid wrote:Curious if anyone knows anything about the NY interview program. Things I'm interested in would be what firms are there, what kind of grades do you need to land something (not necessarily at the elite firms), and how we do overall in NY (I know we don't place a high percentage, but is that self-selection or inability). I've heard of at least a handful of kids going to V10/15 firms, but I'm curious what the chances are of landing something for someone with good but not great grades.


In general, need to be top 20% to get any interviews through the NY interview program, same with DC (at least for firms). The better your grades, the more interviews you'll pick up. If you've got great grades, you'll clean up there.

In reality, unless you're in the top 15% (and closer to 10 than 15), I wouldn't expect much from the program. There was a decent crowd there from WUSTL this year, but a lot of people only had one or two interviews, and then a few had full days. It's a nice program, but you really need the grades. It's also a good thing to use for mass mailing NY firms...i.e. "I will be in town on XXX dates"


'preciate the response. That's about what I figured. The bolded is pretty funny, since I'm right in between the two, and a shade closer to 15 than 10. Sounds like I better get back to work. But seriously, thanks for the response.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: WUSTL 3L (and others) Taking Questions

Postby wannabelawstudent » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:55 am

I don't have a question, I just love WUSTL




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