WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:08 pm

roaringeagle wrote:i have

Greenfield: Contracts

Osgood: Crim Law

Drobak: Civ Pro

Anyone care to comment?


Gosh, what a murderer's row. All very good, all demanding.

You'll pick this up pretty quickly, but the key for Greenfield is crafting a perfect "issue statement." There are more issues than you can possibly spot on a 3-hour exam, and whoever spots the most of them and writes the best ones will win. You can get between 0 and 5 points for an issue statement. The key to a perfect issue statement for him is to have the right balance between detail and vagueness ("The issue is whether there is a valid contract" is too broad, but including every fact in the question would be too detailed.) He gives a midterm and you can go over with him to figure out exactly what he's looking for. Fortunately, most people don't pay attention to the exam until it's way too late, so if you practice writing issue statements you should be fine.

Osgood wants you to talk about the cases from class in a thoughtful way. His questions are fairly open-ended and are largely a platform for you to opine on the subject through the vehicle of the cases. I think you'd be well-served to write down his takeaway thoughts for each case and pretty much repeat those on the exam. It's hard to differentiate yourself in there, especially because he gives a narrow range of grades (94 was the highest grade in our section). People will say use Dressler, which is fairly credited, but it should be to give you a framework of understanding, not to be used on the test.

Drobak will give you the most typical law school exam. I had him for property, not civ pro, but civ pro is what he's been teaching for ages. Know the rules, statutes and key cases backwards and forwards, take a bunch of practice tests to figure out the nuance and interplay between those things and how to apply them, and then type like crazy on the exam.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Thoughts on them? You guys have been really helpful, thanks.
Last edited by goldeneye on Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:14 pm

goldeneye wrote:Konig (prop), Goldwasser (torts) , Magarian (conlaw)? Thoughts on them? You guys have been really helpful, thanks.


i had goldwasser and magarian.

for goldwasser just pay attention to how she teaches the class. that's exactly how she wants you to walk through problems on the exam. she is extremely focused on walking through every element of whatever tort(s) is(are) at hand. You'll be surprised by how easy it is to assume things away and skip steps in this analysis.

for magarian... get chemerinsky. also, there exists an outline for magarian that is verbatim what he will say in every class. I know because I had this outline. He only calls on two people per class period and you will only get called on once for the semester.

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:39 pm

fl0w wrote:
goldeneye wrote:Konig (prop), Goldwasser (torts) , Magarian (conlaw)? Thoughts on them? You guys have been really helpful, thanks.

for magarian... get chemerinsky. also, there exists an outline for magarian that is verbatim what he will say in every class. I know because I had this outline. He only calls on two people per class period and you will only get called on once for the semester.


This is credited, and Magarian is the least intimidating professor in class you'll have. No matter how off base the person answering his questions, he'll be extremely nice about it and won't call the person out on being extremely wrong ("wow, you went further than I asked, let's step back and unpack what you said" will be uttered multiple times). Also he likes to throw in pop culture references from the 80s.

As for the person that asked about Osgood...he's going to make fun of you when you get called on, just roll with it and don't back down. Also, a few dashes of history in your exam will go a long way.

One general note...1Ls, do not stress about being called on in class- it's going to happen, you will not get everything right, depending on the professor it may or may not be humiliating, and in the end it doesn't really matter (unless you're tattered dignity, you lucky bastard). Obviously I wouldn't advise not preparing for class, but don't stay up to 3AM studying torts b/c you're afraid of Tamanaha, etc.

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Unagi
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Unagi » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:39 pm

I also have Goldwasser for torts, but I've got Mandelker for property and Badawi for contracts. Any advice?

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Michael Bluth
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Michael Bluth » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:44 pm

Unagi wrote:I also have Goldwasser for torts, but I've got Mandelker for property and Badawi for contracts. Any advice?


Goldwasser's exam is an absolute horserace. Just have a 1 page attack outline and address as many issues as you can as quickly as possible. Don't know much about Mandelker other than the fact that he's 90 years old, and I've heard nothing but praise for Badawi.

Also, don't worry about being cold-called by Goldwasser - she's about the least intimidating person ever. And she'll use flash cards with your name and picture on them so if you get called and perform passably, you can be reasonably sure of not being called on for at least a month.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Unagi wrote:I also have Goldwasser for torts, but I've got Mandelker for property and Badawi for contracts. Any advice?

Mandelker: super nice, super old, really boring class.

As for the exam, it's the complete opposite of the races you'll see in in Torts/Civ Pro. 5 questions each with a 300 word limit, all the time in the world to read your casebook, flip through notes, whatever. Just make sure you get the correct issue on each question.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:06 pm

goldeneye wrote:Konig (prop), Goldwasser (torts) , Magarian (conlaw)? Thoughts on them? You guys have been really helpful, thanks.

Magarian: super cool guy, very interesting class, very nerdy yet hilarious jokes.

Also, prepare to feel like a genius any time you get called on. He'll tell you how great your answers are 5-10 times, regardless of how ridiculous they are. "Wow, I am so glad you brought that up. I hadn't even considered that. And that sort of relates to (the real answer to my question) like this..."

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:07 pm

Ah didn't see notedgarfigaro's response before I replied, but yea...ditto.

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:21 pm

soccerfreak wrote:
Unagi wrote:I also have Goldwasser for torts, but I've got Mandelker for property and Badawi for contracts. Any advice?

Mandelker: super nice, super old, really boring class.

As for the exam, it's the complete opposite of the races you'll see in in Torts/Civ Pro. 5 questions each with a 300 word limit, all the time in the world to read your casebook, flip through notes, whatever. Just make sure you get the correct issue on each question.


Yeah, this. Not a stressful exam in the least, but if you screw up on 1 question, you're sunk. Last fall I think 1/4 of the class missed the issue at hand on one of the questions b/c the fact pattern was very similar to a zoning case, but the actual issue was a covenant issue iirc. You will have to cite the case name and page # in the book, but it's 3 hours and a 1500 word limit- most people finished with a lot of time to spare.

Class will be boring, he will get case details wrong, the case book is by far the worst case book I had last year...but he encourages laptop use, he has a "I'm on facebook, call on me in 5 minutes" policy, and he's really nice.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm

notedgarfigaro wrote:Last fall I think 1/4 of the class missed the issue at hand on one of the questions b/c the fact pattern was very similar to a zoning case, but the actual issue was a covenant issue iirc.

...raises hand...

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:59 pm

notedgarfigaro wrote:(unless you're tattered dignity, you lucky bastard)


I'm not quite sure who you are or what you mean by this :)

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:01 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
notedgarfigaro wrote:(unless you're tattered dignity, you lucky bastard)


I'm not quite sure who you are or what you mean by this :)

I'd imagine he's referencing your 3 point(!!!) bump in a class for participation. :)

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:15 pm

soccerfreak wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
notedgarfigaro wrote:(unless you're tattered dignity, you lucky bastard)


I'm not quite sure who you are or what you mean by this :)

I'd imagine he's referencing your 3 point(!!!) bump in a class for participation. :)


Oh. I get it. Yeah, that's definitely an anomaly. Unless someone ITT has de Geest and is willing to run their mouth every day.

Sheesh, how do you people even remember such things.

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Ubermaus
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Ubermaus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:28 pm

Any thoughts on Tamanaha for torts? I've read the comments about him ITT and others, but if anybody has additional insight/protips I'm all ears.

I've also got Badawi for contracts and Magarian for con law. Excited? Ayup.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:12 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:Sheesh, how do you people even remember such things.

I didn't remember it was you, but I definitely remembered that someone had mentioned a huge bump from participation.

TatteredDignity wrote:Any thoughts on Tamanaha for torts? I've read the comments about him ITT and others, but if anybody has additional insight/protips I'm all ears.


Amazing. The only class I actually looked forward to every day. Absolutely learned the most about "thinking like a lawyer" from him, and what you learn from him will help you in other classes. Also, he's a bit of a "rock star," just had a book come out bashing law schools and the whole law school system.

He is also very intimidating at the beginning of the year. He only calls on one person per day, and you'll only be called on once per year, but if you're called on in the first half of the semester he'll be pretty rough on you. Expects you to have read cases closely, will get on you if you don't word everything quite how he wants you to, and you will be talking to him A LOT. Everyone was terrified of getting called on. However, once he thinks he has the class thinking like he wants them to he backs off and class just becomes him talking about what he thinks about various cases/stuff.

Exam is very straightfoward. He tells you exactly what he wants. He basically gives you the exact outline you'll need for exam day. The actual exam is the very definition of a race.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:13 pm

Ubermaus wrote:Any thoughts on Tamanaha for torts? I've read the comments about him ITT and others, but if anybody has additional insight/protips I'm all ears.

I've also got Badawi for contracts and Magarian for con law. Excited? Ayup.

And if you have Badawi and Magarian as well...Good God. My two favorite professors, plus Badawi who is generally regarded as amazing from what I hear.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:32 pm

soccerfreak wrote:Amazing. The only class I actually looked forward to every day. Absolutely learned the most about "thinking like a lawyer" from him, and what you learn from him will help you in other classes. Also, he's a bit of a "rock star," just had a book come out bashing law schools and the whole law school system.

He is also very intimidating at the beginning of the year. He only calls on one person per day, and you'll only be called on once per year, but if you're called on in the first half of the semester he'll be pretty rough on you. Expects you to have read cases closely, will get on you if you don't word everything quite how he wants you to, and you will be talking to him A LOT. Everyone was terrified of getting called on. However, once he thinks he has the class thinking like he wants them to he backs off and class just becomes him talking about what he thinks about various cases/stuff.

Exam is very straightfoward. He tells you exactly what he wants. He basically gives you the exact outline you'll need for exam day. The actual exam is the very definition of a race.


In case you haven't noticed, Soccerfreak crushes hard on Tamanaha. :D I think that will be the name of his first child, boy or girl.

I'm a fan as well, but I crush hard on Magarian. Dude is awesome and so humble. He's the shit, but he's hardly pretentious about it, like you'd expect a lot of the time.

Osgood is a lot of fun, too, unless you get called on because someone else decided not to show up. *Ahem

I believe I have the famed Magarian outline that flow talked about and I'd be willing to share to any incoming 1Ls.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:02 pm

bouakedojo wrote:In case you haven't noticed, Soccerfreak crushes hard on Tamanaha. :D I think that will be the name of his first child, boy or girl.

I'm a fan as well, but I crush hard on Magarian. Dude is awesome and so humble. He's the shit, but he's hardly pretentious about it, like you'd expect a lot of the time.

Osgood is a lot of fun, too, unless you get called on because someone else decided not to show up. *Ahem

I believe I have the famed Magarian outline that flow talked about and I'd be willing to share to any incoming 1Ls.

First: you haven't posted on here in forever, yet I still knew you'd show up for that one. :D

Second: I still laugh about that from time to time.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:44 am

soccerfreak wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:In case you haven't noticed, Soccerfreak crushes hard on Tamanaha. :D I think that will be the name of his first child, boy or girl.

I'm a fan as well, but I crush hard on Magarian. Dude is awesome and so humble. He's the shit, but he's hardly pretentious about it, like you'd expect a lot of the time.

Osgood is a lot of fun, too, unless you get called on because someone else decided not to show up. *Ahem

I believe I have the famed Magarian outline that flow talked about and I'd be willing to share to any incoming 1Ls.

First: you haven't posted on here in forever, yet I still knew you'd show up for that one. :D

No shame in it. Tamanaha is a rock star. I think he and Badawi are the two best doctrinal course profs I've had, although Kim is up there too.

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goldeneye
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby goldeneye » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:31 pm

.
Last edited by goldeneye on Thu May 09, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

prez2024
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby prez2024 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:34 pm

Torts: Tamanaha

Property: Dinner

Civil Procedure: Drobak

Would appreciate advice.

Thanks.

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Unagi
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Unagi » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:42 pm

Thanks for all the replies! But what about Badawi's exam?

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:58 pm

goldeneye wrote:what supplements did you all use for property, con law, and torts? mentioned earlier to get chemerinsky for magarian, but what about property and torts? thanks


Torts get the E and E. Terrific supplement.

Property- if you have Mandelker, Property in a Nutshell is the one he recommends, and it's so-so.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:00 pm

romothesavior wrote:No shame in it. Tamanaha is a rock star. I think he and Badawi are the two best doctrinal course profs I've had, although Kim is up there too.


Haha, several of us give him a hard time about it, but yea. I agree. I learned more about how law works, how to argue like a lawyer, and how to be precise from him than from any other professor. The stuff I learned from him I carried over and used in my other classes.




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