WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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stratocophic
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby stratocophic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:41 pm

KellyFan2000 wrote:A couple questions regarding Wash U:

1) The SNR Denton opportunity -- is this strictly for URMs? I noticed language regarding "socio-economic" considerations and wasn't sure what exactly that meant.

2) I was hoping some current Wash U students could comment on any of the professors who are considered "rock stars." (In the sense that their teaching abilities and credentials particularly set them apart.)
Nah, open and welcoming to poor white kids too.

"Rock star" professors = flame IMO. It's most likely not going to do you any good unless you're at the very top of the class and trying for a COA spot.

KellyFan2000
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby KellyFan2000 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:50 pm

Thanks for the input guys. Drobek did seem very cool at the ASD. Was very impressed with Wash U overall. Awesome campus/law building and everyone seemed very kind. Obviously a great school. Plus, you had to appreciate the fact that the day ended with a reception followed by another optional reception. Great way to finish the day. (with a couple of open bars :))

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:49 pm

romothesavior wrote:
KellyFan2000 wrote:A couple questions regarding Wash U:

1) The SNR Denton opportunity -- is this strictly for URMs? I noticed language regarding "socio-economic" considerations and wasn't sure what exactly that meant.

2) I was hoping some current Wash U students could comment on any of the professors who are considered "rock stars." (In the sense that their teaching abilities and credentials particularly set them apart.)

1) As far as I am aware, not it isn't just for URMs.

2) In my experience and based on what I hear, some of the "rock stars" in the classroom are Tamanaha, Badawi, Pauline Kim, Greenfield, Goldwasser, Baker, maybe Drobak, and maybe Levin. These are the ones I most often hear as being great professors. Jane Moul is a very popular LP professor, and so is Koby. The best three doctrinal profs I have had are Tamanaha, Badawi, and Kim, hands down.


Love the guy, think he's hilarious, wouldn't call him the greatest teacher.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:17 pm

In re: SNR Denton program, I think the majority of the participants last year were not URMs.

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2014
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby 2014 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:24 pm

At the first ASD having also had the opportunity to eat at Drobak's table for lunch I got the feeling that he would be a terrific professor to get to know and have in your corner, but his sample lecture wasn't the most inspiring thing I've ever seen.

I sat in on Levin's class as well and thought he was alright but people seem to say Civ Pro is always a little dense.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:47 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
romothesavior wrote:2) In my experience and based on what I hear, some of the "rock stars" in the classroom are Tamanaha, Badawi, Pauline Kim, Greenfield, Goldwasser, Baker, maybe Drobak, and maybe Levin. These are the ones I most often hear as being great professors. Jane Moul is a very popular LP professor, and so is Koby. The best three doctrinal profs I have had are Tamanaha, Badawi, and Kim, hands down.


Love the guy, think he's hilarious, wouldn't call him the greatest teacher.

Yeah he's not a "rock star" but I hear he's solid in Admin.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:21 pm

2014 wrote:At the first ASD having also had the opportunity to eat at Drobak's table for lunch I got the feeling that he would be a terrific professor to get to know and have in your corner, but his sample lecture wasn't the most inspiring thing I've ever seen.

I sat in on Levin's class as well and thought he was alright but people seem to say Civ Pro is always a little dense.

Civ Pro is boring. Period. The fact that you weren't inspired means you are normal.

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Michael Bluth
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Michael Bluth » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:16 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
KellyFan2000 wrote:A couple questions regarding Wash U:

1) The SNR Denton opportunity -- is this strictly for URMs? I noticed language regarding "socio-economic" considerations and wasn't sure what exactly that meant.

2) I was hoping some current Wash U students could comment on any of the professors who are considered "rock stars." (In the sense that their teaching abilities and credentials particularly set them apart.)

1) As far as I am aware, not it isn't just for URMs.

2) In my experience and based on what I hear, some of the "rock stars" in the classroom are Tamanaha, Badawi, Pauline Kim, Greenfield, Goldwasser, Baker, maybe Drobak, and maybe Levin. These are the ones I most often hear as being great professors. Jane Moul is a very popular LP professor, and so is Koby. The best three doctrinal profs I have had are Tamanaha, Badawi, and Kim, hands down.


Love the guy, think he's hilarious, wouldn't call him the greatest teacher.


I mean he can't even tell the difference between a pocket Constitution and the FRCP. COME ON.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:15 pm

Michael Bluth wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
KellyFan2000 wrote:A couple questions regarding Wash U:

1) The SNR Denton opportunity -- is this strictly for URMs? I noticed language regarding "socio-economic" considerations and wasn't sure what exactly that meant.

2) I was hoping some current Wash U students could comment on any of the professors who are considered "rock stars." (In the sense that their teaching abilities and credentials particularly set them apart.)

1) As far as I am aware, not it isn't just for URMs.

2) In my experience and based on what I hear, some of the "rock stars" in the classroom are Tamanaha, Badawi, Pauline Kim, Greenfield, Goldwasser, Baker, maybe Drobak, and maybe Levin. These are the ones I most often hear as being great professors. Jane Moul is a very popular LP professor, and so is Koby. The best three doctrinal profs I have had are Tamanaha, Badawi, and Kim, hands down.


Love the guy, think he's hilarious, wouldn't call him the greatest teacher.


I mean he can't even tell the difference between a pocket Constitution and the FRCP. COME ON.


As this post is obliquely hinting at, I should note that my "criticism" happened to come on the very same day he took me for a ride in class for not being prepared. :lol:

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RoseVI
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby RoseVI » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:24 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
Michael Bluth wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Since this lack of preparation isn't a rare occurrence, your opinion might not be the best one in judging Levin's abilities as a teacher.

Love the guy, think he's hilarious, wouldn't call him the greatest teacher.


I mean he can't even tell the difference between a pocket Constitution and the FRCP. COME ON.


As this post is obliquely hinting at, I should note that my "criticism" happened to come on the very same day he took me for a ride in class for not being prepared. :lol:


Since this lack of preparation isn't out of the ordinary, you might not be the best judge of Levin's teaching abilities.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:56 pm

RoseVI wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
As this post is obliquely hinting at, I should note that my "criticism" happened to come on the very same day he took me for a ride in class for not being prepared. :lol:


Since this lack of preparation isn't out of the ordinary, you might not be the best judge of Levin's teaching abilities.


I'm prepared, just in a different way. You of all people should know this.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Birdnals » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 am

Hello all,

It looks like I am going to be heading home to go to WashU for law school. As of right now I am planning on renting a place in Clayton/CWE/UCity with a few college friends with finance jobs. Will it be weird for me to not live with fellow law school students? I don’t really want to live alone, but I also don’t want to live with randos unless living with non-law schoolers is frowned upon.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:28 am

Birdnals wrote:Hello all,

It looks like I am going to be heading home to go to WashU for law school. As of right now I am planning on renting a place in Clayton/CWE/UCity with a few college friends with finance jobs. Will it be weird for me to not live with fellow law school students? I don’t really want to live alone, but I also don’t want to live with randos unless living with non-law schoolers is frowned upon.

Won't be an issue at all.

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Michael Bluth
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Michael Bluth » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:19 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Birdnals wrote:Hello all,

It looks like I am going to be heading home to go to WashU for law school. As of right now I am planning on renting a place in Clayton/CWE/UCity with a few college friends with finance jobs. Will it be weird for me to not live with fellow law school students? I don’t really want to live alone, but I also don’t want to live with randos unless living with non-law schoolers is frowned upon.

Won't be an issue at all.


Seconded. I live with an old high school friend who happens to live in STL. It doesn't inhibit your social life in any way. In fact, there will probably be a few times when you want to get away from law school for a bit.

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soccerfreak
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby soccerfreak » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Birdnals wrote:Hello all,

It looks like I am going to be heading home to go to WashU for law school. As of right now I am planning on renting a place in Clayton/CWE/UCity with a few college friends with finance jobs. Will it be weird for me to not live with fellow law school students? I don’t really want to live alone, but I also don’t want to live with randos unless living with non-law schoolers is frowned upon.

I live with two non-law schoolers. There are times it would be nice to be living with people going through all the same stuff...but there are also times it's nice to get away. Overall, a non-issue.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:57 am

KellyFan2000 wrote:2) I was hoping some current Wash U students could comment on any of the professors who are considered "rock stars." (In the sense that their teaching abilities and credentials particularly set them apart.)


I've loved pretty much every single one of my professors here except for one. And that one was so patently unqualified to teach law that it was not funny. However, she is no longer employed by the school. Everybody knows who I'm talking about.

4 of my last 7 doctrinal professors have been authors of the casebook, and are very highly regarded in their fields: Levin, Sale, Crain and Mandelker. A fifth was Al Gore's Chief of Staff when he was VP (Burson). My con law professor was the former Dean of Cornell law school. Even the ones that are not casebook authors are fantastic, caring, and engaging people. They love what they do, and the love being here at this school.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:22 am

thexfactor wrote:1. People below median get biglaw jobs at michshitgan. I cant say the same about wustl. According to NLJ250 numbers WUSTl is at 13% vs 37% at Mich. I don't think anyone below top 1/3 (prob top 25%) get biglaw jobs at WUSTL.

2. Also the quality of biglaw jobs are much better at Umich.
I would take Umich in a heartbeat unless I get a full scholarship at WUSTL. Even then I would prob lean towards Umich.

The problem is that WUSTL only places decent in the STL market. However, the STL market isn't very open to outsiders.

People have to realize that 3 years of life is a fixed cost of attending law school. time= money.


If 37% of people at UM are getting biglaw jobs, that means your chance of getting one at median is spotty at best. Below median, you're boned unless you have things other than grades going for you. Either way, your chances of getting a Biglaw job at UM are lower than a coin toss, and if you strike out at OCI there, you're pretty much in the same boat as a WUSTL grad with the same grades -- you'll be relegated to networking your ass off and you'll also have trouble in secondary markets where most firms won't hire you because they think you will bolt for NYC or Chicago after getting a year or two of experience on your resume.

Also, I know a handful of people below top third here with Biglaw. And, yes, there's a handful of top 10% without. But I haven't had any problems with WUSTL's reputation when I've been out networking. I've been to San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, DC, and everybody I've talked to knew how good of a school it was and had nothing but positive reactions.

We just don't have the strongest OCI, which really hurts our overall Biglaw numbers. This is simply a factor of our home market not being that big. Most T14s have a local mega-market where they can dump a ton of their grads. But if you're not sitting around waiting for an offer to fall into your lap from a firm that comes to your school to interview you, you'll find that most people respect the school. I've gotten my resume passed on to a number of managing partners at Biglaw offices, and my grades are a hair below median. If you circumvent the recruiting offices which are overly concerned with numbers (similar to the law school application process), simply due to the fact that they have many hundreds of applications for only a few positions and need to narrow down the field somehow, you'll find that the partners that spend all of their time with clients rather than sorting through resumes are more impressed with your personality and your past work experience. Just the fact that you're out networking is impressive in itself, since so few law students make a serious effort at it.

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:51 am

JCougar wrote:My con law professor was the former Dean of Cornell law school.


Any thoughts on what makes that prof tick? I have him for crimlaw and he's never taught that here before.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:25 am

bouakedojo wrote:
JCougar wrote:My con law professor was the former Dean of Cornell law school.


Any thoughts on what makes that prof tick? I have him for crimlaw and he's never taught that here before.


Obv what makes him tick imo. He wants a decent understanding of the law, but more important, how do YOU feel about that law? That's the impression I got from his paper, and, having just taken the practice zam he gave out, he even asks this question: discuss what you think the law is, but more important, what is your opinion on it?

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:27 pm

Kabuo wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:
JCougar wrote:My con law professor was the former Dean of Cornell law school.


Any thoughts on what makes that prof tick? I have him for crimlaw and he's never taught that here before.


Obv what makes him tick imo. He wants a decent understanding of the law, but more important, how do YOU feel about that law? That's the impression I got from his paper, and, having just taken the practice zam he gave out, he even asks this question: discuss what you think the law is, but more important, what is your opinion on it?


I dunno...he wasn't happy with what I thought about the law yesterday...

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:44 pm

Kabuo wrote:Obv what makes him tick imo. He wants a decent understanding of the law, but more important, how do YOU feel about that law? That's the impression I got from his paper, and, having just taken the practice zam he gave out, he even asks this question: discuss what you think the law is, but more important, what is your opinion on it?


Yea, I'm getting that vibe from him. Also, throw history at him because he eats it up.

notedgarfigaro wrote:I dunno...he wasn't happy with what I thought about the law yesterday...


haha, you were just being snarky with him.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:34 am

bouakedojo wrote:
JCougar wrote:My con law professor was the former Dean of Cornell law school.


Any thoughts on what makes that prof tick? I have him for crimlaw and he's never taught that here before.


I agree with the people above. Our con law exam had more than one open-ended policy question. He likes good writers -- people who can express themselves well. If there was one class where it payed off to be a little artful with language, it was that one. Obviously, you still gotta know your shit.

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punkyg0608
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby punkyg0608 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:54 pm

I'm from St. Louis so I've been reading the Post-Dispatch lately, and I've been seeing all kinds fo articles about safety in U City. Is U City an ok place to live while attending WUSTL? I don't really want to live in a dangerous neighborhood if I don't have to. I've also heard north of the loop is more dangerous than south of the loop, does that sound about right?

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notedgarfigaro
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby notedgarfigaro » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:11 pm

punkyg0608 wrote:I'm from St. Louis so I've been reading the Post-Dispatch lately, and I've been seeing all kinds fo articles about safety in U City. Is U City an ok place to live while attending WUSTL? I don't really want to live in a dangerous neighborhood if I don't have to. I've also heard north of the loop is more dangerous than south of the loop, does that sound about right?


U City is very safe, and yes south of the loop is safer than north of the loop, but I know several people who live north of the loop and are perfectly fine. I'm south of the loop and I've had zero problems. I love the location personally; it's a 7 minute walk to the law school and when I'm lazy (i.e. every day), there's a campus shuttle that stops right at my apartment so you save $500 on the parking permit. The only problem is that seemingly most of the social gatherings happen in the CWE, but other than that, I couldn't be happier.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:14 pm

notedgarfigaro wrote:
punkyg0608 wrote:I'm from St. Louis so I've been reading the Post-Dispatch lately, and I've been seeing all kinds fo articles about safety in U City. Is U City an ok place to live while attending WUSTL? I don't really want to live in a dangerous neighborhood if I don't have to. I've also heard north of the loop is more dangerous than south of the loop, does that sound about right?


U City is very safe, and yes south of the loop is safer than north of the loop, but I know several people who live north of the loop and are perfectly fine. I'm south of the loop and I've had zero problems. I love the location personally; it's a 7 minute walk to the law school and when I'm lazy (i.e. every day), there's a campus shuttle that stops right at my apartment so you save $500 on the parking permit. The only problem is that seemingly most of the social gatherings happen in the CWE, but other than that, I couldn't be happier.


Not going to talk about the safety stuff since I live CWE, but I will say that the bolded seems like a grass is greener type thing.




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