WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
josh43299
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby josh43299 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:08 pm

Can anyone speak to how worthwhile the housing days are?

This might be a really stupid question: Did anyone move up there without personally walking through the place they were going to be renting? I have never had to move more than like an hour away, so haven't had to deal with this kind of thing before. I will be visiting the school next week with my wife and we are going to check out the neighborhoods and figure out what streets are okay and whatnot, but I am not sure when I will be able to fly back out to St. Louis check out individual places... This wouldnt be as much of a problem if we didn't have two little dogs coming with us (If not, I would probably would just go with the WashU housing).

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bouakedojo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:29 pm

deebs wrote:Yeah, everything I wrote corresponded to biglaw/firms. I know nothing of PI stuff, but have been trying to get JAG as well government agencies. I'm not sure about the others, but the Navy had a 6% selection rate. I don't think transferring to a T14 would really help, but not sure.


Ya, that's what I was thinking.

josh43299 wrote:Can anyone speak to how worthwhile the housing days are?

This might be a really stupid question: Did anyone move up there without personally walking through the place they were going to be renting? I have never had to move more than like an hour away, so haven't had to deal with this kind of thing before. I will be visiting the school next week with my wife and we are going to check out the neighborhoods and figure out what streets are okay and whatnot, but I am not sure when I will be able to fly back out to St. Louis check out individual places... This wouldnt be as much of a problem if we didn't have two little dogs coming with us (If not, I would probably would just go with the WashU housing).


pmed.

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dietcoke0
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby dietcoke0 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:36 pm

Posted this in the other thread, but might get a few different eyes over here. Planning on going to the ASD in March, and was seeing if anyone was interested in splitting a hotel room. I am only staying Friday night, and will have a car if that helps. I'm a male, and was interested in staying around the CWE. PM if you are interested or want to ensure we would be an okay match. Thanks.

stolli
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby stolli » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:33 pm

josh43299 wrote:Can anyone speak to how worthwhile the housing days are?

This might be a really stupid question: Did anyone move up there without personally walking through the place they were going to be renting? I have never had to move more than like an hour away, so haven't had to deal with this kind of thing before. I will be visiting the school next week with my wife and we are going to check out the neighborhoods and figure out what streets are okay and whatnot, but I am not sure when I will be able to fly back out to St. Louis check out individual places... This wouldnt be as much of a problem if we didn't have two little dogs coming with us (If not, I would probably would just go with the WashU housing).


I moved into Wash U housing without walking through the apartment and it turned out fine. I wouldn't recommend it though with private renters/sellers. The quaity of the building/neighborhoods are streaky around here, and you really wanna check it out yourself first.

However, Im pretty sure some wash U housing allows animals (might be for a small extra deposit) so you should look into that. I think quadrangle (wash U) housing is great and is def. the way to go if you want to live around campus

J-tow10
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby J-tow10 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:51 am

deebs wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:I'd be interested to know more about why you recommend transferring, deebs.


Once you miss the oci boat/fall recruiting season, the opportunity to pull in the kind of money to pay off loans is out the window. Attorneys in my home major market aren't impressed by top 25%/LR at wustl because they're getting top 5% TT kids from the city (which is most likely their alma mater to begin with at smaller shops). Midlaw doesn't really exist, and unless a partner drops off your resume, good luck getting anything through mass mailing. Attorney's at 30-50 person firms I've had coffee with still recruit during the fall, and will take median kids from northwestern or chicago. A firm (maybe v100?) told my friend (who wound up at a V5) that they haven't looked at his resume and it probably won't matter, because they don't plan on taking anyone from WUSTL.

Not to only talk about the negatives, as a handful of ppl in the class are going to V5's and other people have great gigs, but you don't want to be the guy who got unlucky and are one of the 20 or so kids who had the chance and missed. I'd much rather have a T14 on my resume, even if it meant an extra 30k of debt because frankly, I have no chance of paying off my loans. Obviously everyone's situation is different, and someone will quote me saying that they love wustl, but you see the figures, 20% have NOTHING 9 months after graduation. After you strike out, you and the guy with an 85/86 average are on an equal playing field and either one could easily be one of the 50 students who are filling up coffee's at 5 in the morning.

Of course your odds of being the 1 or 2 people in the top 10% without something is extremely small, but it will happen to 1 or 2 of them. I didn't try to transfer because I thought it was impossible at top 25%, but someone with those grades transferred to Northwestern then got chicago big law, and someone around median got into UCLA and now has top 15% grades there. St. Louis is not a fallback at all, even ask Romo who was gunning st. louis, but had better offers from firms in other cities.

I still ask the same people who struck out that had/possibly had the grades to get something and no one has anything, or atleast anything they really wanted/has a possibility of future employment.

tl;dr - read romo's post


I think this is pretty accurate as well. I also know top 10%/LR people who have nothing lined up for the summer. A lot of non-firm employers don't even consider interviewing top 1/3 WUSTL students.

Oban
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Oban » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:11 pm

I think 80% is inflated. I mean I bet we average 30-40 percent truly employed at graduation (as in legal work). I am seriously suspect to the idea that a big chunk of the class magically finds meaningful work after passing the bar. The school employs a chunk of students around the reporting dates, gives free LLMS, lowcost/free MBAs, and other things to students so they don't drag down the stats.

The majority of people I know either have nothing lined up, or nothing that will lead to permanent employment after law school. The ones who do have jobs, are typically non nonplussed by the location (bumfuck small city/town midwest) or field (Personal Injury, etc). Yes a few people landed big firms, but only a few.

I think in general most of the top 3rd does well, but a fair number of them strike out. The middle and below is super boned though. I'd definitely advocate transferring if you have the grades, unless you have something tying you to St. Louis.

I don't blame most of the situation on the school though, it's mostly the reality of going to a non t-14 or t-10.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:35 pm

Oban wrote:I think 80% is inflated. I mean I bet we average 30-40 percent truly employed at graduation (as in legal work). I am seriously suspect to the idea that a big chunk of the class magically finds meaningful work after passing the bar. The school employs a chunk of students around the reporting dates, gives free LLMS, lowcost/free MBAs, and other things to students so they don't drag down the stats.

The majority of people I know either have nothing lined up, or nothing that will lead to permanent employment after law school. The ones who do have jobs, are typically non nonplussed by the location (bumfuck small city/town midwest) or field (Personal Injury, etc). Yes a few people landed big firms, but only a few.

I am sure it is a bit high as well, but post-bar passage is when a lot of places hire, so a decent chunk of people are going to get jobs then. If roughly 50-60% of all graduates get law jobs at 9 months out, then it doesn't seem like a stretch at all to think 70-80% of our class of 2011 had law jobs. When some schools have like 20-40% employment (places like Cooley, TJSL, JMLS, etc.), then most T1s will have 70-80% to balance that out. A lot of these jobs are probably awful though, so there's that.

This 30-40% number gets thrown around a lot for employed at graduation, but I am skeptical of it. For one thing, it supposedly was dropped in some 3L meeting last spring, but I've been told that this isn't correct. Second, last year (c/o 2011, the class that did OCI in 2009) was probably the worst employment year in the history of law school, so drawing conclusions based on their year is probably not going to be helpful. It would take another recession of sorts to only have 30% of our class (c/o 2013) employed at graduation.

As far as my experience, I think most of my friends have jobs that can lead to full-time employment, or jobs that will at least are solid for their 3L hunt (like the SEC). I have a few friends with nothing lined up, or with jobs that won't lead to anything, but most of my friends seem to be in okay shape. Maybe it's just who I run with, but most of my friends are in the top quarter to median range, so its not like they're all top of the class.

Not saying your experience is wrong, just that it sounds a lot worse than what I've seen in my year and a half here.

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deebs
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby deebs » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:29 pm

At the networking event yesterday, a classmate told me that a cso advisor informed them that under 40% of our class (2L's) has something lined up for the summer as of a week ago when they met with the advisor.

I also found out, through the student, about this resource we have where we can see the job postings at other schools. Already got on it and applied to like 5 things posted on UofI's symplicity - we're talking big law satellite offices in good sized markets still looking for SA's. Of course I've never heard of it before, despite it being one of the most helpful resources yet. You can search by state. PM if you want more info.

Don't kill the messenger.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:24 pm

deebs wrote:At the networking event yesterday, a classmate told me that a cso advisor informed them that under 40% of our class (2L's) has something lined up for the summer as of a week ago when they met with the advisor.

Sounds about right. Just curious what all is included in that 40%.

I also wonder how that figure was computed. Is it just an estimate? Is it that 40% of students have reported having something? There are probably scores of people who haven't reported having a job to the CSO, especially people who got things outside of OCI and/or later in the school year, so I'd be interested in what that 40% figure really represents.

Oban
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Oban » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:04 am

40-50% with jobs seems accurate given the people I've talked to/over head lamenting/over head jubilating.

I'm sure for every person with a job who the CSO doesn't know about there is someone without one who hasn't talked to the CSO.


Anyway, I'm not trying to dog the school at all, but I agree more with deebs about how meh the current situation is in general.

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deebs
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby deebs » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:53 pm

romothesavior wrote:
deebs wrote:At the networking event yesterday, a classmate told me that a cso advisor informed them that under 40% of our class (2L's) has something lined up for the summer as of a week ago when they met with the advisor.

Sounds about right. Just curious what all is included in that 40%.

I also wonder how that figure was computed. Is it just an estimate? Is it that 40% of students have reported having something? There are probably scores of people who haven't reported having a job to the CSO, especially people who got things outside of OCI and/or later in the school year, so I'd be interested in what that 40% figure really represents.


Not exactly sure. I got an e-mail a few weeks ago stating something like "our records indicate you haven't found something yet for the summer. Please let us know if that is not true, etc." It wasn't from my cso advisor that I regularly see, so I bet they came up with it based off those responses or were trying to figure it out.

On another note, since we are dropping in the rankings, maybe they'll give me my tuition back for the last two years in exchange for getting the hell out of here and not affecting them later

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby tmon » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:56 pm

Starting to look ahead and think about contingencies. If I end up choosing Wash U I'd have to be moved in in the first week of June because my SO is doing a different grad program that starts in June. Would it be easy enough to find good housing options for a June move-in, or would that be a disadvantage? Ideally I'd want something within at most 15-20 minutes walk/public trans from campus, decently sized, and not in an unsafe area. Where I went to undergrad housing was weird and most people locked up the next year's housing by the end of the fall/winter before that next school year, which I think is different from basically everywhere else. So would looking around 1 month before move-in be best?

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:11 pm

tmon wrote:Starting to look ahead and think about contingencies. If I end up choosing Wash U I'd have to be moved in in the first week of June because my SO is doing a different grad program that starts in June. Would it be easy enough to find good housing options for a June move-in, or would that be a disadvantage? Ideally I'd want something within at most 15-20 minutes walk/public trans from campus, decently sized, and not in an unsafe area. Where I went to undergrad housing was weird and most people locked up the next year's housing by the end of the fall/winter before that next school year, which I think is different from basically everywhere else. So would looking around 1 month before move-in be best?


I looked about a month and a half in advance and found plenty of options. That was a month and a half before school starts too, so if anything it would probably be easier for a June move-in. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be looking to sub-let over the summer if you need somewhere to crash while you keep looking.

A shot in the dark
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby A shot in the dark » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:00 pm

Any 2L/3L know details about write-on? Sorry if this has been asked/answered before. Specifically, I'm curious as to dates- is it just the week after finals end?

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:16 pm

A shot in the dark wrote:Any 2L/3L know details about write-on? Sorry if this has been asked/answered before. Specifically, I'm curious as to dates- is it just the week after finals end?

Yep, pretty much. You get like a few days of freedom and then dive back into write-on.

A shot in the dark
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby A shot in the dark » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:04 pm

Great, really looking forward to that stretch of time. Thanks for the response.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 pm

A shot in the dark wrote:Great, really looking forward to that stretch of time. Thanks for the response.


That is the worst stretch of law school.

I was so relieved when I handed in my write on that I went out that same night and got black out drunk shotgunning PBR tallboys while standing on a table at this bar with live music and the crowd was cheering me on. LOL. I don't remember when I got home, but boy did that beer taste like freedom.

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splitsplat
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby splitsplat » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:01 pm

ST LOUIS NATIVES: I have time for one dinner, best spot for BBQ? Also, best dessert/cupcake/ice cream place? (wife request)

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:22 pm

splitsplat wrote:ST LOUIS NATIVES: I have time for one dinner, best spot for BBQ? Also, best dessert/cupcake/ice cream place? (wife request)

Shaved Duck for BBQ
Bailey's Chocolate Bar for dessert/drinks

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beachbum
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby beachbum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm

seatown12 wrote:
splitsplat wrote:ST LOUIS NATIVES: I have time for one dinner, best spot for BBQ? Also, best dessert/cupcake/ice cream place? (wife request)

Shaved Duck for BBQ
Bailey's Chocolate Bar for dessert/drinks


Pappy's, man, Pappy's.

(Sorry for intruding into your thread. I posted here a while ago, and now I mostly just creep. But Pappy's is good, good BBQ).

seatown12
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:19 pm

beachbum wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
splitsplat wrote:ST LOUIS NATIVES: I have time for one dinner, best spot for BBQ? Also, best dessert/cupcake/ice cream place? (wife request)

Shaved Duck for BBQ
Bailey's Chocolate Bar for dessert/drinks


Pappy's, man, Pappy's.

(Sorry for intruding into your thread. I posted here a while ago, and now I mostly just creep. But Pappy's is good, good BBQ).

Don't go to Pappy's with your wife, go later with a crew of bros and order multiple Adam Bombs and sleep the rest of the day.

Shaved Duck is just as good but less overhyped (read: crowded).

Plus Pappy's will probably run out before you get there for dinner.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:58 pm

I want to throw in some love for Bogart's while we're on the topic.

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tmon
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby tmon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:09 pm

I'm not a native, and I haven't even committed to WUSTL yet, but I waited like an hour for Pappy's and it was worth every single minute. So damn good. It put the best bbq place I've been to in my city to shame.

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splitsplat
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby splitsplat » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:55 pm

Well, if anything at least I can eat BBQ if I go to WUSTL. Oh and I heard pappy's was amazing but they close early and sometimes run out of BBQ + crazy wait times.

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2014
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby 2014 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:08 pm

I'll ask in public here since Romo ignored my PM a couple of weeks back. (No big deal I know you are busy :P)

My real two options at this point are WUSTL paying 1/3 of tuition and COL and Kansas paying only COL. I'm sitting on waitlists for Michigan, NYU, and Chicago and feel like I'd get one of the three if I waited it out and effectively LOCI'd but would almost certainly be paying sticker and would have to arrange housing and loans on the fly.

My goal at this point is to end up in or near Kansas City in whatever capacity can pay off my loans be that with a firm or in PI if I can play my cards right. I'm from Kansas, have family in both KC and STL and feel like I can sufficiently answer the "Why KC" question easily.

Do you guys think WUSTL is TCR or is it not worth the extra debt for whatever advantage it would give me over KU and it's T2 status.

I'm open to the idea of holding off a year and EDing somewhere if I have to as well.

Tl:Dr

WUSTL ($$) v KU ($$$) v T5-10 WL prayer v T10 ED C/o 2016




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