WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:35 pm

deebs wrote:Anyone looking to buy supps/books?

Civ Pro - Glannon Guide, Acing Civ Pro
Crim - Dressler casebook, Emanuels, Delaney Learning Crim Law
Con Law - Emanuel, Varat Casebook
Corps - O'Kelley casebook, Lexis Q&A
Tax - Wiedenbeck book, Chirelstein, E&E
Admin - Levin book, levin nutshell, E&E


Don't know to what extent you're looking sell them together, but I'm interested in acing civ pro and nothing else.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:13 pm

0LNewbie wrote:
I'm interested in acing civ pro and nothing else.


Why don't you want to ace crim or conlaw?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:28 am

Kabuo wrote:
0LNewbie wrote:
I'm interested in acing civ pro and nothing else.


Why don't you want to ace crim or conlaw?


Selective gunning.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:12 pm

So, top 10% grade on to LR. Are the rest of the spots pure write-on? Or is there some combo of write-on and grades?

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RoseVI
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby RoseVI » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:27 pm

I've been lurking a bit, waiting for the right time to ask a question.

Now that 1L grades and percentiles are posted, I was wondering what the widest split between high and low grades anyone's heard of is, and whether that has any effect on interviews/getting jobs (outside of GPA considerations), or if it can be easily explained in a positive manner.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:13 pm

RoseVI wrote:I've been lurking a bit, waiting for the right time to ask a question.

Now that 1L grades and percentiles are posted, I was wondering what the widest split between high and low grades anyone's heard of is, and whether that has any effect on interviews/getting jobs (outside of GPA considerations), or if it can be easily explained in a positive manner.

Probably depends in part on the grade, the class, and the employer. I had a 10 point swing between my high grade and my low grade, which was LP first semester. Didn't hurt me much, I don't think. I only had one employer ask me about it, and they basically told me I must suck as a writer if I got my worst grade in LP (yeah, whatever). But they were the only person out of the dozens and dozens of interviewers I had that even brought it up. If your GPA is competitive for big firm jobs (top 1/4 or maybe top 1/3), they likely won't look as closely at the individual grades. They usually just want a strong GPA.

That being said, and this is just pure speculation with a grain of TLS "conventional wisdom" sprinkled in, a grade in the 70s could probably hurt you. I have heard that big firms really, really don't like Cs, and I'd say a grade in the 70s is the equivalent to a C. Again though, if your grades are competitive anyways, they may just gloss over it.

Also, if you're looking to do non-firm work, then the class you got the grade in may matter. An 80 in crim law or something is probably not going to look good if you want to work for a prosecutor or something. Again, that is the TLS conventional wisdom and I've heard it from people looking to do that kind of work, but I don't have firsthand experience.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:15 pm

Kabuo wrote:So, top 10% grade on to LR. Are the rest of the spots pure write-on? Or is there some combo of write-on and grades?

Top 10% grade on, the rest must write on. No combo, and the other journals don't look at grades as far as I am aware.

josh43299
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby josh43299 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:06 pm

First of all, thank you all for posting so much info on here. It has been a huge help.

I have a question that is very specific:
If I decide to attend, I would be moving there with my wife (who would also likely be attending a different program at Washington U). We are looking for a place to live that is close enough to the school where there would be a short ride or walk from campus so we could go home in the afternoon and take our dog out. Also, we are looking for a place that is quiet, cheap (600-800 per month for a 1br), has a couple of good local coffee shops (this is pretty important), and is not overly dangerous. Any recommendations?

Stephanie13
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Stephanie13 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:27 pm

josh43299 wrote:First of all, thank you all for posting so much info on here. It has been a huge help.

I have a question that is very specific:
If I decide to attend, I would be moving there with my wife (who would also likely be attending a different program at Washington U). We are looking for a place to live that is close enough to the school where there would be a short ride or walk from campus so we could go home in the afternoon and take our dog out. Also, we are looking for a place that is quiet, cheap (600-800 per month for a 1br), has a couple of good local coffee shops (this is pretty important), and is not overly dangerous. Any recommendations?

Wow, I haven't posted in forever, but I recommend the Demun/Clayton area. Quiet, more suburban, and Kaldi's (a great local coffee shop) is located in the Demun area, but Clayton also has Starbucks and the like. It's also close to campus (a little less than a 5 minute drive). It's a very safe area. Definitely more families live here than students, I believe.

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camstant
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby camstant » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:25 pm

Stephanie13 wrote:
josh43299 wrote:First of all, thank you all for posting so much info on here. It has been a huge help.

I have a question that is very specific:
If I decide to attend, I would be moving there with my wife (who would also likely be attending a different program at Washington U). We are looking for a place to live that is close enough to the school where there would be a short ride or walk from campus so we could go home in the afternoon and take our dog out. Also, we are looking for a place that is quiet, cheap (600-800 per month for a 1br), has a couple of good local coffee shops (this is pretty important), and is not overly dangerous. Any recommendations?

Wow, I haven't posted in forever, but I recommend the Demun/Clayton area. Quiet, more suburban, and Kaldi's (a great local coffee shop) is located in the Demun area, but Clayton also has Starbucks and the like. It's also close to campus (a little less than a 5 minute drive). It's a very safe area. Definitely more families live here than students, I believe.


I would agree. I live in the "Moorlands" neighborhood, which is technically in Clayton and is the neighborhood just southeast of the intersection of Hanley and Wydown. It's a good mix of students and families, much more residential as compared to an area like Central West End, and it seems much safer. Starbucks is a 5 minute walk from our door and about 15-20 minutes to downtown clayton.

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camstant
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby camstant » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:
RoseVI wrote:I've been lurking a bit, waiting for the right time to ask a question.

Now that 1L grades and percentiles are posted, I was wondering what the widest split between high and low grades anyone's heard of is, and whether that has any effect on interviews/getting jobs (outside of GPA considerations), or if it can be easily explained in a positive manner.

Probably depends in part on the grade, the class, and the employer. I had a 10 point swing between my high grade and my low grade, which was LP first semester. Didn't hurt me much, I don't think. I only had one employer ask me about it, and they basically told me I must suck as a writer if I got my worst grade in LP (yeah, whatever). But they were the only person out of the dozens and dozens of interviewers I had that even brought it up. If your GPA is competitive for big firm jobs (top 1/4 or maybe top 1/3), they likely won't look as closely at the individual grades. They usually just want a strong GPA.

That being said, and this is just pure speculation with a grain of TLS "conventional wisdom" sprinkled in, a grade in the 70s could probably hurt you. I have heard that big firms really, really don't like Cs, and I'd say a grade in the 70s is the equivalent to a C. Again though, if your grades are competitive anyways, they may just gloss over it.

Also, if you're looking to do non-firm work, then the class you got the grade in may matter. An 80 in crim law or something is probably not going to look good if you want to work for a prosecutor or something. Again, that is the TLS conventional wisdom and I've heard it from people looking to do that kind of work, but I don't have firsthand experience.


+1. If you've got good grades otherwise, you can easily write it off as a fluke or a bad day. If your grades are all over the place, they aren't going to ask in the first place. Either way, if you're self-conscious about it, just make sure you've got a good answer for them if they bring it up and they will almost certainly be willing to overlook it.

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deebs
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby deebs » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:04 pm

camstant wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
RoseVI wrote:I've been lurking a bit, waiting for the right time to ask a question.

Now that 1L grades and percentiles are posted, I was wondering what the widest split between high and low grades anyone's heard of is, and whether that has any effect on interviews/getting jobs (outside of GPA considerations), or if it can be easily explained in a positive manner.

Probably depends in part on the grade, the class, and the employer. I had a 10 point swing between my high grade and my low grade, which was LP first semester. Didn't hurt me much, I don't think. I only had one employer ask me about it, and they basically told me I must suck as a writer if I got my worst grade in LP (yeah, whatever). But they were the only person out of the dozens and dozens of interviewers I had that even brought it up. If your GPA is competitive for big firm jobs (top 1/4 or maybe top 1/3), they likely won't look as closely at the individual grades. They usually just want a strong GPA.

That being said, and this is just pure speculation with a grain of TLS "conventional wisdom" sprinkled in, a grade in the 70s could probably hurt you. I have heard that big firms really, really don't like Cs, and I'd say a grade in the 70s is the equivalent to a C. Again though, if your grades are competitive anyways, they may just gloss over it.

Also, if you're looking to do non-firm work, then the class you got the grade in may matter. An 80 in crim law or something is probably not going to look good if you want to work for a prosecutor or something. Again, that is the TLS conventional wisdom and I've heard it from people looking to do that kind of work, but I don't have firsthand experience.


+1. If you've got good grades otherwise, you can easily write it off as a fluke or a bad day. If your grades are all over the place, they aren't going to ask in the first place. Either way, if you're self-conscious about it, just make sure you've got a good answer for them if they bring it up and they will almost certainly be willing to overlook it.


If they're talking to you in an interview, then they don't really care. FWIW, a lawyer I talked to at Skadden said he got asked in his interview about why his con law grade was so much lower than his others (and it was like a 91 or something). If people ask, they're just looking at how you respond.

sprinkles
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby sprinkles » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:26 am

Realistically, do you see someone in the top 10% getting to biglaw in NYC without an obvious tie there? What about as a 1L, what do the top 10% students typically do over their summers?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:24 pm

Obviously it would be better for Romo to answer this question as a 2L, but I can tell you anecdotally that there are members of the 2L class (and 3L, for that matter) without NY ties who are heading there this summer (at all Vault levels). NY doesn't really care as much about ties, as long as you can stroke their egos and convince them that you want to be in the best city in the world. I think Romo will also tell you that it's probably easier to get NY from the top of the class than Chicago ITE.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:24 pm

sprinkles wrote:Realistically, do you see someone in the top 10% getting to biglaw in NYC without an obvious tie there? What about as a 1L, what do the top 10% students typically do over their summers?

0LNewbie is right. You don't need strong ties to NYC to get to NYC, although it helps. Top 10% isn't a "lock" for NYC biglaw, but your odds are very good.

As for what top 10% 1Ls do, you do the same thing the rest of us do. Apply to firm jobs, inevitably strike out at the firm jobs, and take a job with a judge, professor, small firm, or PI/government position. I don't think there is much correlation between 1L job and grades. A lot of the top students in my class worked as RAs and didn't even try for firm jobs. People across the grade spectrum do all sorts of things. I recommend getting the public interest stipend if you can. It is great.

Also sidenote... I know all the 1Ls are chomping at the bit for 1L OCI and the big firms, but your odds of getting a firm job are slim, even with great grades. A lot of people in the top 10-20% didn't even get 1L OCI interviews last year. Don't stress about it if you don't get firm jobs. A lot of it comes down to sheer luck, knowing people, etc. Many (most?) 1L SAs are diversity-oriented. So definitely apply and try for it, but there probably are ~10 1L SA slots in all of St. Louis. I only say this because you shouldn't stress if you don't get a firm job (or even an interview). You literally can do almost anything law-related your 1L summer and do fine at 2L OCI, which is where it matters.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:58 pm

My bad, i thought the poster was asking about 2L summer.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:01 pm

0LNewbie wrote:My bad, i thought the poster was asking about 2L summer.

I think he was. Top 10% would be very strong in NYC, absolutely.

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fl0w
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:13 pm

romothesavior wrote:0LNewbie is right. You don't need strong ties to NYC to get to NYC, although it helps. Top 10% isn't a "lock" for NYC biglaw, but your odds are very good.

As for what top 10% 1Ls do, you do the same thing the rest of us do. Apply to firm jobs, inevitably strike out at the firm jobs, and take a job with a judge, professor, small firm, or PI/government position. I don't think there is much correlation between 1L job and grades. A lot of the top students in my class worked as RAs and didn't even try for firm jobs. People across the grade spectrum do all sorts of things. I recommend getting the public interest stipend if you can. It is great.

Also sidenote... I know all the 1Ls are chomping at the bit for 1L OCI and the big firms, but your odds of getting a firm job are slim, even with great grades. A lot of people in the top 10-20% didn't even get 1L OCI interviews last year. Don't stress about it if you don't get firm jobs. A lot of it comes down to sheer luck, knowing people, etc. Many (most?) 1L SAs are diversity-oriented. So definitely apply and try for it, but there probably are ~10 1L SA slots in all of St. Louis. I only say this because you shouldn't stress if you don't get a firm job (or even an interview). You literally can do almost anything law-related your 1L summer and do fine at 2L OCI, which is where it matters.


This is good advice. What I would add is try to do what romo said in your target market (if at all possible). Being in the market in which you think you will want to live after graduation will drastically increase the value of your network and make it as easy as possible to score something OUTSIDE of OCI for your 2L summer.

I know a lot of people are casting a wide net, but I advise people to be honest with themselves and think about a place where they would actually be happy living. Get a job in a city you hate and you'll be quite miserable. just my current two cents.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:51 pm

I agree with flow, aka the man with the really nice coat. You want to work in your desired market if at all possible. It is one of the best ways to show commitment to it during interviews.

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chem
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby chem » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:44 pm

My fiance will be pursuing her PhD where ever I end up going to law school. This will probably take around 5-6 years if the experiments go well. That being said, I'll want to find a job nearby. I'll be gunning for patent. Are there any good firms that do patent work that pay well? I'll have passed the patent bar before law school (hopefully), and with that in mind, should I be comfortable around median? top 30%?

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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby quadsixm » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:51 pm

chem wrote:My fiance will be pursuing her PhD where ever I end up going to law school. This will probably take around 5-6 years if the experiments go well. That being said, I'll want to find a job nearby. I'll be gunning for patent. Are there any good firms that do patent work that pay well? I'll have passed the patent bar before law school (hopefully), and with that in mind, should I be comfortable around median? top 30%?


What's your tech background? Above median and you should be ok with the correct tech background. That being said, if your fiance will be in St. Louis for a while and you need to work in town, WUSTL is a big risk. The St. Louis market does not get a ton of patent work. There is one large boutique and a few smaller ones, as well as some GP firms that do some patent work, but if you don't have strong ties to St. Louis, your odds at landing there are slim to none.

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chem
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby chem » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:53 pm

quadsixm wrote:
chem wrote:My fiance will be pursuing her PhD where ever I end up going to law school. This will probably take around 5-6 years if the experiments go well. That being said, I'll want to find a job nearby. I'll be gunning for patent. Are there any good firms that do patent work that pay well? I'll have passed the patent bar before law school (hopefully), and with that in mind, should I be comfortable around median? top 30%?


What's your tech background? Above median and you should be ok with the correct tech background. That being said, if your fiance will be in St. Louis for a while and you need to work in town, WUSTL is a big risk. The St. Louis market does not get a ton of patent work. There is one large boutique and a few smaller ones, as well as some GP firms that do some patent work, but if you don't have strong ties to St. Louis, your odds at landing there are slim to none.


Chemical Engineering, Chemistry, and Biochemistry majors. With W/E

She'll be there for a while. I was hoping that being there for at least 3 years guarunteed would be a good enough tie, I wouldn't bolt at the first opportunity. Bummer sauce

Thanks for the asnwer. Is ChemE the right background?

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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby quadsixm » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:32 pm

chem wrote:Chemical Engineering, Chemistry, and Biochemistry majors. With W/E

She'll be there for a while. I was hoping that being there for at least 3 years guarunteed would be a good enough tie, I wouldn't bolt at the first opportunity. Bummer sauce

Thanks for the asnwer. Is ChemE the right background?


ChemE is solid, probably 3rd behind EE which is by far the hottest, followed by maybe CompSci. I know the life sciences groups in KC, and to a lesser extent in STL, have a steady flow of work. The problem isn't just the ties, but the fact that the firms in STL hire so few people each year. Think classes of 1 or 2; the odds just aren't very good.

I'd definitely take a hard look at CA schools if you're dead set on patent.

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stratocophic
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:02 pm

Chem-related stuff is pretty good for STL. A bio PhD would be better, but you'll have a better chance than a MechE or maybe even a CompSci. q6m is right about the lack of patent work in town though, there isn't much. Ordinarily you'd probably be ok for getting a good job due to your background, but if you're constrained like that and the job has to be in STL... it's tougher. Networking would pretty much be vital for you in that situation, i.e. meeting every local IP attorney you can. Buying a house in the area might help with convincing firms that you're serious about sticking around as well, given your fiancee's fairly long-term presence in town. Best of luck.

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romothesavior
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Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:39 pm

stratocophic wrote:Chem-related stuff is pretty good for STL. A bio PhD would be better, but you'll have a better chance than a MechE or maybe even a CompSci. q6m is right about the lack of patent work in town though, there isn't much. Ordinarily you'd probably be ok for getting a good job due to your background, but if you're constrained like that and the job has to be in STL... it's tougher. Networking would pretty much be vital for you in that situation, i.e. meeting every local IP attorney you can. Buying a house in the area might help with convincing firms that you're serious about sticking around as well, given your fiancee's fairly long-term presence in town. Best of luck.

Yeah, but poly sci/philosophy is where the jerbs are at.




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