WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:04 pm

Okay, time to ask a question in my own questions thread...

Anyone care to shed some light on what Rosen's exam is like? That class is just downright miserable and the book is next to useless. I like his notes, but they don't seem to be painting the full picture for me. Anyone have a supplement recommendation or any other general advice?

Total Litigator
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Total Litigator » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:23 pm

Well you probably already know that its 1/2 multiple choice 1/2 essay. There are usually two essay questions.

Unfortunately he takes shooting for a 50% average on the multiple choice really seriously, and this can lead to some nit picky tricky (and some down right unfair) questions... His essay questions in the past have been either relatively straight forward (just a straight application of blackletter law) or they have been down right brutal (if you didn't 'get' the question (and half the class didn't) you missed the boat and were screwed....) which means that the multiple choice part might be almost your entire grade (in case of easy essay questions), or it might just be 1/2 (in case of hard essay questions)...

In all fairness though, he's pretty open about the fact that he's learning from his mistakes, and his successive exams seem to get better and better (which means they should one step above 'badly written' right about now).

If you haven't guessed, I'm not a huge fan of his exams. I am curious as to whether anyone else disagrees with me.

As far as the guy goes though, I like him and I think he's a good professor.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:33 pm

Total Litigator wrote:Well you probably already know that its 1/2 multiple choice 1/2 essay. There are usually two essay questions.

Unfortunately he takes shooting for a 50% average on the multiple choice really seriously, and this can lead to some nit picky tricky (and some down right unfair) questions... His essay questions in the past have been either relatively straight forward (just a straight application of blackletter law) or they have been down right brutal (if you didn't 'get' the question (and half the class didn't) you missed the boat and were screwed....) which means that the multiple choice part might be almost your entire grade (in case of easy essay questions), or it might just be 1/2 (in case of hard essay questions)...

In all fairness though, he's pretty open about the fact that he's learning from his mistakes, and his successive exams seem to get better and better (which means they should one step above 'badly written' right about now).

If you haven't guessed, I'm not a huge fan of his exams. I am curious as to whether anyone else disagrees with me.

As far as the guy goes though, I like him and I think he's a good professor.

Any thoughts on how to go about preparing for this? The class is a total cluster for me right now (in part because I lack motivation and am way behind, and in part because of the material). How did you prepare? What worked and didn't work?

I've also heard he tests on things that aren't really in his notes or reading. Any take on this?

seatown12
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:16 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:45 am

romothesavior wrote:I've also heard he tests on things that aren't really in his notes or reading. Any take on this?

This was my experience. Apparently he draws questions straight from the Q&A, but I wouldn't know.

Wooostl2012
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:04 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Wooostl2012 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:56 pm

seatown12 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I've also heard he tests on things that aren't really in his notes or reading. Any take on this?

This was my experience. Apparently he draws questions straight from the Q&A, but I wouldn't know.


He did take questions directly from it in past years, but did not do so last year when I was in the class. People are right, his exams aren't very well written. And his focus on the exam was not necessarily what he focused on in class. For example, his test last semester had a great deal on rule 104 and when a judge/jury decides on evidence, despite glazing over this in class. (something like 5 mc questions were based on it).

That said, if you know the rules pretty well, I don't think it's a crushingly difficult test by any means.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:10 pm

Hi there! Sorry to switch the topic on the thread here. I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

My deal is, I've always been much better in person than on paper. My numbers are 162/3.5. I know that these are around the 'lower' numbers of WUSTL but I am really into the school. The more I read about it, the more I feel like it would be a great fit for me. So, I have arranged a time to fly out to STL and sit in on a first year class, take a tour, and hopefully meet with someone in the admissions department. Does anyone know if this really has any help in your application? Are there any suggestions that I can add in my personal statement to help? I am already thinking of making my personal statement WUSTL.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!! :)

User avatar
JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:56 pm

vkgarrett wrote:Hi there! Sorry to switch the topic on the thread here. I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

My deal is, I've always been much better in person than on paper. My numbers are 162/3.5. I know that these are around the 'lower' numbers of WUSTL but I am really into the school. The more I read about it, the more I feel like it would be a great fit for me. So, I have arranged a time to fly out to STL and sit in on a first year class, take a tour, and hopefully meet with someone in the admissions department. Does anyone know if this really has any help in your application? Are there any suggestions that I can add in my personal statement to help? I am already thinking of making my personal statement WUSTL.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!! :)


I don't want to discourage you, but I don't want to BS you either. It will be very difficult with those numbers unless you are a URM. WUSTL is as realpolitik as it gets when it comes to maximizing the school's medians, so unless you have either a 3.65 GPA (which can be rounded up to 3.7) or a 168 LSAT, your chances are very slim. That's not to say they are non-existent; if you're trying to get in despite that, you're doing the right thing in coming out and visiting. But your chances if you're below both medians are probably somewhere around 1 in 100 at best.

I don't know how many times you have taken the LSAT, but it's definitely possible to go from 162 to 168 on a retake. Think about trying that.

User avatar
bouakedojo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:57 pm

vkgarrett wrote:Hi there! Sorry to switch the topic on the thread here. I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

My deal is, I've always been much better in person than on paper. My numbers are 162/3.5. I know that these are around the 'lower' numbers of WUSTL but I am really into the school. The more I read about it, the more I feel like it would be a great fit for me. So, I have arranged a time to fly out to STL and sit in on a first year class, take a tour, and hopefully meet with someone in the admissions department. Does anyone know if this really has any help in your application? Are there any suggestions that I can add in my personal statement to help? I am already thinking of making my personal statement WUSTL.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!! :)


Geez, I don't want to be the a-hole who says retake, but both your stats are below medians and WUSTL's medians are on the rise. If you are out of school, bumping up your LSAT is the main thing that will help you.

You're going to have an uphill battle, for sure. Softs don't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. I don't think visiting will either.

Regardless, I wish you the best in your app season. If you do visit, pm me and I'd be happy to help you in any way I can.

User avatar
bouakedojo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby bouakedojo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:58 pm

JCougar wrote:I don't want to discourage you, but I don't want to BS you either. It will be very difficult with those numbers unless you are a URM. WUSTL is as realpolitik as it gets when it comes to maximizing the school's medians, so unless you have either a 3.65 GPA (which can be rounded up to 3.7) or a 168 LSAT, your chances are very slim. That's not to say they are non-existent; if you're trying to get in despite that, you're doing the right thing in coming out and visiting. But your chances if you're below both medians are probably somewhere around 1 in 100 at best.

I don't know how many times you have taken the LSAT, but it's definitely possible to go from 162 to 168 on a retake. Think about trying that.


Looks like someone beat me to it. :)

User avatar
Kabuo
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Kabuo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:13 pm

vkgarrett wrote:Hi there! Sorry to switch the topic on the thread here. I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

My deal is, I've always been much better in person than on paper. My numbers are 162/3.5. I know that these are around the 'lower' numbers of WUSTL but I am really into the school. The more I read about it, the more I feel like it would be a great fit for me. So, I have arranged a time to fly out to STL and sit in on a first year class, take a tour, and hopefully meet with someone in the admissions department. Does anyone know if this really has any help in your application? Are there any suggestions that I can add in my personal statement to help? I am already thinking of making my personal statement WUSTL.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!! :)


What class are you sitting in on?

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:35 pm

vkgarrett wrote:Hi there! Sorry to switch the topic on the thread here. I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

My deal is, I've always been much better in person than on paper. My numbers are 162/3.5. I know that these are around the 'lower' numbers of WUSTL but I am really into the school. The more I read about it, the more I feel like it would be a great fit for me. So, I have arranged a time to fly out to STL and sit in on a first year class, take a tour, and hopefully meet with someone in the admissions department. Does anyone know if this really has any help in your application? Are there any suggestions that I can add in my personal statement to help? I am already thinking of making my personal statement WUSTL.

Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!! :)

I will echo what the others have said. Your odds of admission are not good, and even if you got in, I would discourage you from paying sticker to come here. The opportunities do not justify the price, especially for a person interested in Cali.

seatown12
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:16 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:58 pm

vkgarrett wrote:I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

your solution is to move to the Midwest? lol

User avatar
JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby JCougar » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:12 pm

seatown12 wrote:
vkgarrett wrote:I am interested in going to WUSTL. I'm from San Diego but have family in STL and would love to go there. I'm looking to get out of CA because the cost of living is too dang high and the job market is pretty depressing, especially out here.

your solution is to move to the Midwest? lol


At least you can live for cheap here. Although it doesn't matter much anyway. In order to get an unemployment check to spend on a ratty $400 studio and Stag beer, you have to have been employed in the first place at some point after graduation.

Not knocking anything about this school in particular, though. The legal job market is in the toilet in: West Coast, Midwest, South, and most of the East Coast...and the East Coast has more over-saturation of lawyers than anywhere else. In summary: don't go to law school period, unless your parents are rich or you get around a 50% scholarship somewhere (or a 75% scholarship from anything outside the T25). Even the bottom half of the T14 at close to sticker these days is a pretty risky decision.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:34 pm

hahah thanks for all the honesty guys. I kind of knew that was the case, nothing really surprising to me. I'm still going to apply. Let them reject me... for colleges I only applied to schools I knew I could get into, and no reach... and was left wondering what could have happened. But at least this takes some of the pressure off my personal statement to "CHANGE MY APPLICATION"

Yeah, job market sucks I know. everywhere it sucks. And I have taken the LSAT twice - 162 big improvement for me... hey we all can't be amazing LSAT takers okay??

I have 2 years WE in a lawfirm as paralegal/legal assistant... so I'm hoping that will help.

jaydee2013
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:44 am

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby jaydee2013 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:53 am

If you have family in STL and wouldn't mind settling down here -- definitely apply to SLU for law school, as well. With a 162, you're in their top 25% (probably top 5%) on that metric and are slightly above their median GPA. You'll surely get a hefty scholarship. Even if it's not full-tutition (or close to full tuition), SLU's tuition is much cheaper than most private law schools, and you won't find a large city with as cheap a cost of living as STL. I know a couple SLU students that seem to like it there... mostly because they have STL ties already so they like the city, and they're not depressed about being shut out of CA/Chicago/DC/etc because they weren't applying there to begin with.

Top 10% at SLU has a good shot at the larger STL firms, of which there are quite a number for a city our size. St Louis is about as inbred as you can get in terms of the importance of ties, and (while this sucks for WUSTL students) top 10% at SLU with ties to the city is just as good as top 10% at Wash U without ties. Note, once you drop below 10% at SLU, you'll be just as hard pressed to find jobs as someone at median.

But, if you do get substantial $$ from SLU and would like to end up in St Louis, don't shed a tear for one second that you didn't get into Wash U -- and this is coming from a guy who recommends WUSTL in 9 out of 10 cases and loves it.

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby stratocophic » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:44 am

jaydee2013 wrote:If you have family in STL and wouldn't mind settling down here -- definitely apply to SLU for law school, as well. With a 162, you're in their top 25% (probably top 5%) on that metric and are slightly above their median GPA. You'll surely get a hefty scholarship. Even if it's not full-tutition (or close to full tuition), SLU's tuition is much cheaper than most private law schools, and you won't find a large city with as cheap a cost of living as STL. I know a couple SLU students that seem to like it there... mostly because they have STL ties already so they like the city, and they're not depressed about being shut out of CA/Chicago/DC/etc because they weren't applying there to begin with.

Top 10% at SLU has a good shot at the larger STL firms, of which there are quite a number for a city our size. St Louis is about as inbred as you can get in terms of the importance of ties, and (while this sucks for WUSTL students) top 10% at SLU with ties to the city is just as good as top 10% at Wash U without ties. Note, once you drop below 10% at SLU, you'll be just as hard pressed to find jobs as someone at median.

But, if you do get substantial $$ from SLU and would like to end up in St Louis, don't shed a tear for one second that you didn't get into Wash U -- and this is coming from a guy who recommends WUSTL in 9 out of 10 cases and loves it.
You're probably not going to get a job in St. Louis if you aren't from the city or somewhere in the general region, even (especially?) if you go to SLU. Realistically speaking, SLU is good for those who are from the area and that's about it.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:14 pm

Thanks for all your advice guys. I don't think I'll apply to SLU as I am mostly interested in WUSTL b/c of a lot of school specific reasons. I realized my chances are slim, but I'm still applying.

I have family who attended WUSTL too and currently lives close by, so I'd be happy living there.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:23 pm

Again, even if you get in, the price tag is simply not worth the return on your investment. You're looking at ~200k (give or take) for your degree, and you're going to need to make it into a biglaw firm to pay that off. Your odds of doing that from WUSTL are not high enough to justify the 200k, and your odds of getting biglaw in Cali are even lower.

I hate to jump on the TLS "retake" mantra (okay, no I don't), but seriously consider retaking.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:46 pm

already re-took, but thanks. I'm not saying I'll go, but I'm applying. I agree on the sticker price. Thanks for your help.

Oban
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:09 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Oban » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:40 pm

You will not get in, don't waste your time and money. Law admissions are sticky by the numbers. Either retake the LSAT or deal with it.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:46 pm

Oban wrote:You will not get in, don't waste your time and money. Law admissions are sticky by the numbers. Either retake the LSAT or deal with it.


I get it, thanks.

User avatar
fl0w
Posts: 1404
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:46 am

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby fl0w » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:05 am

ya'll bein' harsh.

i mean i get it but yikes.

vkgarrett
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby vkgarrett » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:23 am

fl0w wrote:ya'll bein' harsh.

i mean i get it but yikes.


hey, i asked for their opinion and i got it! haha. be careful what you wish for I guess :)

seatown12
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:16 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby seatown12 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:49 pm

What are the reasons you are interested in Wash U, and what are your career goals?

User avatar
Dr. Filth
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:22 pm

Re: WUSTL 2L Taking Questions

Postby Dr. Filth » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:16 am

i noticed on the academic calendar that y'all are in school the monday and tuesday before thanksgiving. would this be a good time to come visit the school or will the dread from finals already have set in?




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Phightins, thelincolnlawyer and 5 guests