WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[chuckbass]

The applicant thread is posting 32.6 percent 100 plus firm and fed clerkship combined for c/o 2013. On my phone or I would look into it more.

That sounds unreasonable given that our NLJ 250 number was reported at only 18.33%. That means we must have put a massive number of students in either clerkships or firms between 100 and 160 lawyers, and normally these numbers are very low.

If we somehow managed to do this, than great job to the CSO. But I am skeptical until I see more.

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2013.pdf

If that is true, than the National Law Journal is severely underestimating how many people we put into Biglaw:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=225116

It says we put 55/300 into Biglaw. From the ABA data, our school places 64 into firms of 250+, and another 23 into firms of 101-250. The NLJ cutoff is usually around 160, so over half of those 23 should also be counted in the NLJ 250. So a generous estimate is that the NLJ undercounted the number of our grads in "Biglaw" by about 20 lawyers.

It's been reported before that the NLJ 250 numbers are incomplete and don't count a few domestic firms and any foreign-based Biglaw firms. But this kind of under-counting seems pretty substantial to me.

Yeah, and in this case specifically makes me question the utility of NLJ 250 numbers.

[goldeneye]

Who to believe- firms or schools?

[PrideandGlory1776]

St. Louis resident here. First, thanks for doing this. Second, WUSTL and Vandy are both very high on my list- can you talk more about why you chose WUSTL over Vandy? Was it just because of your preference to work in St. Louis? And would you make the same decision again?

What's your favorite thing about WUSTL? Least favorite?

To be honest, I think for the majority of people Vandy is the better option.

Why is that? WashU has the #14 ranked undergrad (Vandy #17) WashU has #6 ranked Med School Vandy #16 and they are almost the same with law school Vandy #16 WashU #18 - why is it that Vanderbilt is a household name but I never heard of WashU a year ago and none of my family or friends ever heard of it either? I mean people don't realize WashU undergrad is ranked higher than Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Cornell etc. it's a phenomenal institution - I really wonder why that is.

2) WashU's employment came back and it's very impressive 29% 100+ Law firm placement + 3.3% Art III Clerkship = 32.3 % Successful Placement
http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2013.pdf

3) Were any of you tempted to transfer up or did you know and intend all along to stay for all 3 years?

4) What is the dating scene like - do a lot of students date fellow WUSTLers or what? Also are most of the girls the the preppy sort or if not what is the general vibe/style?

[JCougar]

WUSTL is Division III in sports, while Vandy is Division I. Outside of sports, I probably would never have heard of Vandy myself. Of course, I never even knew what WUSTL was until I applied to law school.

I never really researched what good schools were before, though. I only applied to one undergrad: the state school in my home city. Never really considered leaving. So outside of a few of the Ivies and maybe Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame, I had no idea what schools were prestigious and didn't really care. The only other way you hear about schools is from football/basketball.

It does kind of suck that WUSTL doesn't have much lay prestige, but what are we going to do? Keep winning the Luminosity smartest college rankings? Only the nation's nerd population really cares about that. The question is, how do you up your prestige with your average bro that went to state school and watches college basketball on Saturday and football on Sunday and might be a hiring manager at the regional business? Movie placement about an academic version of Rudy? "I couldn't make it into Wash U, so I had to go to SLU and hustle and transfer so I could compete and save the Luminosity 2017 championship for WUSTL!"

[JCougar]

As far as the dating/social scene, it's pretty socially diverse, and there's people from all walks of life. WUSTL was also far more nerdy overall than I thought it would be (which was a good thing). Before entering law school, I had this image in my head of most law students being huge douchebags. That's kind of how lawyers are depicted on TV. But almost everyone I met was a great person.

[chuckbass]

WUSTL is Division III in sports, while Vandy is Division I. Outside of sports, I probably would never have heard of Vandy myself. Of course, I never even knew what WUSTL was until I applied to law school.

I never really researched what good schools were before, though. I only applied to one undergrad: the state school in my home city. Never really considered leaving. So outside of a few of the Ivies and maybe Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame, I had no idea what schools were prestigious and didn't really care. The only other way you hear about schools is from football/basketball.

It does kind of suck that WUSTL doesn't have much lay prestige, but what are we going to do? Keep winning the Luminosity smartest college rankings? Only the nation's nerd population really cares about that. The question is, how do you up your prestige with your average bro that went to state school and watches college basketball on Saturday and football on Sunday and might be a hiring manager at the regional business? Movie placement about an academic version of Rudy? "I couldn't make it into Wash U, so I had to go to SLU and hustle and transfer so I could compete and save the Luminosity 2017 championship for WUSTL!"

I think you're definitely on to something with people knowing schools because of sports. I think WUSTL obviously has "less" lay prestige, but I think that in upper circles everyone knows what it is. Same as how I'm certain a lot of people don't know what Dartmouth or UPenn are, it really just depends on who you talk to.

[JCougar]

I have to admit I also didn't know that UPenn was in any way prestigious until my brother got accepted there for grad school. Never knew it was an Ivy. I probably would have fell for the "UPenn State" troll a few years ago.

[chuckbass]

I have to admit I also didn't know that UPenn was in any way prestigious until my brother got accepted there for grad school. Never knew it was an Ivy. I probably would have fell for the "UPenn State" troll a few years ago.

Lol think of all the kids at Swarthmore and the like... I feel like they have it the worst.

[DoveBodyWash]

Any person that's relevant to your intended professional sphere will know WashU. Same with Penn. It's not about what lay people think, it's about what high-level clients and lawyers think. And I can't speak to other regions, but i know WashU's brand (just the university in general) is very strong in the northeast.

Lay prestige only matters for impressing lay people, and they're not the people you'll need to impress anyway hahaha

[JCougar]

But what if I want to get laid by some lay chicks at a bar?

[DoveBodyWash]

We have our dean.

https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/26657.aspx

[Ricky-Bobby]

But what if I want to get laid by some lay chicks at a bar?

Damn, you beat me to it. Cuse, what if I need to make all of those assholes in high school jealous?

Just kidding. I'm married and Wash U is damn near on par with Harvard around here.

[JCougar]

LOL. First we rob USC of their 18th spot in US News, but then we steal their Vice Dean AND her partner.

So much for the lack of WUSTL sports. I think we just spiked the ball in the endzone and did a little dance.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Yea this is true it's ranked #18 for a reason and had very strong institutional 2015 prestige rankings (#18 overall as well in USWNR). It's just a bit frustrating though if I choose WashU over Vandy, GULC and Cornell people just won't understand that I choose a phenomenal school that was best for me and my finances -- for them it will be like oh he didn't get into any good schools he's going to some random U. of Whatever like U of Hawaii or Nebraska University wow bro like good for you - congrats you suck. No you freakin punks I'm going to a fantastic school! Like do people outside of Mizzou know about WashU? Or even in Missouri if you go into a restaurant in St. Louis will they know about how good it is or is it only the nerds who obsessively follow USNWR rankings that know how strong an institiution it is?

[DoveBodyWash]

Yea this is true it's ranked #18 for a reason and had very strong institutional 2015 prestige rankings (#18 overall as well in USWNR). It's just a bit frustrating though if I choose WashU over Vandy, GULC and Cornell people just won't understand that I choose a phenomenal school that was best for me and my finances -- for them it will be like oh he didn't get into any good schools he's going to some random U. of Whatever like U of Hawaii or Nebraska University wow bro like good for you - congrats you suck. No you freakin punks I'm going to a fantastic school! Like do people outside of Mizzou know about WashU? Or even in Missouri if you go into a restaurant in St. Louis will they know about how good it is or is it only the nerds who obsessively follow USNWR rankings that know how strong an institiution it is?

haha i sympathize, but it's about what you value.

And like I said, WashU has an extremely strong brand in the northeast. I can't speak for other regions. But yeah i mean if you prioritize lay prestige then I guess GULC or Cornell would be the better choice. I don't know about Vanderbilt though. It has a strong brand, but it's like WashU. Some people will know it, others won't. Remember that there will ALWAYS be a more "lay-prestigious" school.

So if you're gonna join the prestige rat race, at least do it for the prestige that actually matters to your career, which isn't going to be lay prestige.

[JCougar]

In Missouri, WUSTL is viewed as on par with Harvard, even with all the lay people. So I wouldn't worry about that.

[Cellar-door]

I think prestige varies by region. I've heard Vandy is huge in the South, but in my experience in the Northeast, people think of WUSTL as an excellent school, and Vandy as a mediocre basketball program with a bad football team.

[DoveBodyWash]

I think prestige varies by region. I've heard Vandy is huge in the South, but in my experience in the Northeast, people think of WUSTL as an excellent school, and Vandy as a mediocre basketball program with a bad football team.

In the Northeast, Vandy is the school that's perpetually angry that it's not Duke. Jk kind of. Seriously only like 3-5 schools in the entire country are going to have universal lay-prestige

If you're not HYP plus Stanford, then GTFO. Even Cornell gets shit on as the "not-a-real-Ivy" by the other Ivy's. There will ALWAYS be a more prestigious school.

[JCougar]

If you're not HYP plus Stanford, then GTFO. Even Cornell gets shit on as the "not-a-real-Ivy" by the other Ivy's. There will ALWAYS be a more prestigious school.

I think Cornell's reputation has been damaged by The Office. When I told people I was applying to Cornell, that's all they could think about.

[chuckbass]

If you're not HYP plus Stanford, then GTFO. Even Cornell gets shit on as the "not-a-real-Ivy" by the other Ivy's. There will ALWAYS be a more prestigious school.

I think Cornell's reputation has been damaged by The Office. When I told people I was applying to Cornell, that's all they could think about.

SUNY-Ithaca hth.

[PrideandGlory1776]

I think prestige varies by region. I've heard Vandy is huge in the South, but in my experience in the Northeast, people think of WUSTL as an excellent school, and Vandy as a mediocre basketball program with a bad football team.

In the Northeast, Vandy is the school that's perpetually angry that it's not Duke. Jk kind of. Seriously only like 3-5 schools in the entire country are going to have universal lay-prestige

If you're not HYP plus Stanford, then GTFO. Even Cornell gets shit on as the "not-a-real-Ivy" by the other Ivy's. There will ALWAYS be a more prestigious school.

So true I've heard so many people say Cornell is the shit-ivey I guess people just like to make other people feel crappy about themselves lol maybe human nature just sucks haha. But honestly people just love to rain on other people's parades like if you go to Northwestern no1 knows how phenomenal a school it is it's #12 Undergrad and #12 Law but like lay people wouldn't know it from Northeastern just I guess the nature of the beast. Plus even people who go to #6 NYU or #7 UVA don't get the mad props they deserve people know those are good schools but don't have a clue how hard it is to get into those schools for law and thus think those people who get full-rides to NYU are somehow like Harvard-reject screw-ups when in reality it's insanely hard to get the Darrow at Michigan, the Vanderbilt at NYU etc. still the point is lay reactions are frustratingly captive to two words Harvard Law - they lose their minds. Drop the H Bomb and people go ape. C'est la vie if you don't go to Harvard Law then you're always looking up I suppose the key is to be happy and content with where your at and find peace and serenity in the opportunities you do have

[Otunga]

Lawyer and doctor from my New England state think highly of WUSTL.

[DoveBodyWash]

Drop the H Bomb and people go ape. C'est la vie if you don't go to Harvard Law then you're always looking up

But dat Yale though...

[Fiero85]

LOL. First we rob USC of their 18th spot in US News, but then we steal their Vice Dean AND her partner.

So much for the lack of WUSTL sports. I think we just spiked the ball in the endzone and did a little dance.

+1

Da Bearz

[isuperserial]

I think prestige varies by region. I've heard Vandy is huge in the South, but in my experience in the Northeast, people think of WUSTL as an excellent school, and Vandy as a mediocre basketball program with a bad football team.

In the Northeast, Vandy is the school that's perpetually angry that it's not Duke. Jk kind of. Seriously only like 3-5 schools in the entire country are going to have universal lay-prestige

If you're not HYP plus Stanford, then GTFO. Even Cornell gets shit on as the "not-a-real-Ivy" by the other Ivy's. There will ALWAYS be a more prestigious school.

Here in Michigan I know that at least among the academic community WashU has an incredible reputation. It's gotten to the point where I get a little weirded out when people ask me where I'm going to law school because they act like I won the lottery. Depending on the situation I usually just say, "I dunno, still juggling options." Which I guess isn't necessarily incorrect.