WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[AceDeuces]

Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

[AceDeuces]

Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

[hoos89]

Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

Not really weird. It seems reasonable for the top few people to regress to the mean a bit. Higher GPAs are harder to maintain/easier to mess up.

[Fiero85]

Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

Just a flatter curve kinda thing, I think. Relatively more people sliding from the very top than the other brackets.

(scooped)

[AceDeuces]

Also, does it seem a bit strange to any one else that the top 15/20/25 cutoffs went up, but top 5 (and maybe 10? can't remember) went down?

Not really weird. It seems reasonable for the top few people to regress to the mean a bit. Higher GPAs are harder to maintain/easier to mess up.

Word. It just seems looking back historically that 3.76 for instance is relatively high for the 20% cutoff, but it might be because the class is larger.

[chuckbass]

Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).

[hoos89]

Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).

.02 is actually a fairly significant difference (a few cutoffs moved .03 for c/o 2015). That's a pretty significant difference for a lot of people; it's pretty much like moving up a cutoff. You have to realize that part of the idea behind the current grading system is to make the differences between people a lot smaller. On the old scale, .03 was .50.

[chuckbass]

Some have mentioned that the GPA cutoffs are recalculated once people transfer. Can some upperclassman speak to this, and has it had effect on the GPA cutoffs substantially (or at all)? Purely anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people in the top 15-20 are trying to transfer is up, which would lower the cutoffs, but that is rumor/conjecture; obviously I have no stats.

Edit: Clarity.

I used to have the separate cutoffs but can't find them. iirc the differences were minuscule (like .01-.02).

.02 is actually a fairly significant difference (a few cutoffs moved .03 for c/o 2015). That's a pretty significant difference for a lot of people; it's pretty much like moving up a cutoff. You have to realize that part of the idea behind the current grading system is to make the differences between people a lot smaller. On the old scale, .03 was .50.

Yeah fair I forget how tight it is. Well there will be quite a few of us taken off the curve, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. Me leaving personally won't really help anyone though unfortunately.

[bluedolphin]

What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.

[hoos89]

What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.

Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.

[LET'S GET IT]

What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.

Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.

If you are diverse, you may have better luck getting screeners with not as great grades too.

[Georges_Valere_Roux]

Tough to say for sure. My impression as been that things get pretty tough for just getting screeners outside about the top 20%, but if you have a great resume or IP or something that may get you interviews with worse grades. Don't let that discourage you from applying if you have lower grades, though; you never know what will happen.

Any upperclassmen/graduates care to comment on their biglaw IP job search? Or second-hand if you have IP friends/acquaintances?

[nachosrgood]

Are all RA positions paid? Anyone apply for one before? What would you include in the cover letter if you have had the professor in a couple classes, one of which is a seminar which is the area of research you would be doing?

[WheatThins]

What grade rankings are dead in the water? For say NY interview program for getting interviews.

Top 20-25% should get you a decent number of interviews. Good work experience should get you more. Under top third, without any diversity or anything interesting on your resume and you're pretty SOL.

Chicago interview program is much harder to get interviews. DC is about the same as NY in terms of screeners.

Note: This was for previous year's classes. Might be tougher with larger class sizes.

[mme182]

What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?

[chuckbass]

What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?

Rising 2L but sounds like you should be good to get NYC biglaw if you know how to interview based on last year's results.

[hoos89]

What are your odds of actually getting a job if you're just outside of the top ten percent and you apply for almost all of the on and off campus interviewing sessions?

Strong, but regardless of where you are in the class take nothing for granted. Mass-maill starting in early to mid July.

[sublime]

..

[hoos89]

Yeah we do the Chicago walkaround with a lot of other schools. To give you an idea: there was someone who was top 10% at Iowa in that thread last year who got ZERO screeners. In DC there are just fewer firms that go to the programs (compared to NYC) so volume is harder to get, but I think the grade range is comparable.

Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls)


And anecdotally, your mileage will vary. Last year I had a ton of trouble in NYC for whatever reason but ended up doing better in other cities. Your best bet is to be geographically flexible, apply anywhere you think you can convince a firm you want to be, and mass-mail early and often (and follow-up every few weeks). NYC and DC are generally no-brainers (they really don't care that much about ties), and just about everyone should be applying to St. Louis firms even knowing how much crap they'll give you if you're not from there.

[chuckbass]

Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls).

It looks bleak to me tbh. Are we allowed to post the lists?

[WheatThins]

Also, any rising 2L mind telling us how the lists of firms coming to EIW and off-campus are looking? (3Ls can only see people hiring 3Ls).

It looks bleak to me tbh. Are we allowed to post the lists?

Why wouldn't you new allowed to post the lists?

[chuckbass]

2015 2L Fall Recruiting:

LA Walk Around:
-DLA Piper
-Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Mitchell (Resume Collect)
-Kirkland & Ellis
-Raines Feldman (Orange County Only)
-Rutan & Tucker (Resume Collect)

EIW:
-Allen & Overy (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Andrews Kurth (Houston, Dallas) (Resume Collect)
-Armstrong Teasdale (STL)
-Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz (multiple offices)
-Baker Hostetler (multiple offices)
-Bickel & Brewer (Dallas, NY) (Resume Collect)
-Briggs & Morgan (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Brinks Gilson & Leone (multiple offices)
-Bryan Cave (STL)
-Burr & Forman (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Charlotte)
-Calfee, Halter & Griswold (Cleveland) (Resume Collect)
-Carmody MacDonald (STL)
-Chapman & Cutler (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-Cole Schotz (NJ) (Resume Collect)
-Dinsmore & Shohl (multiple offices)
-Epstein Becker & Green (NY, DC) (Resume Collect)
-Faegre Baker Daniels (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Fennemore Craig (multiple offices)
-Fish & Richardson (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Foley & Lardner (multiple offices)
-Frost, Brown Todd (multiple offices)
-Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Gilmore & Bell (STL, KC)
-Godfrey & Kahn (Milwaukee) (Resume Collect)
-Greenberg Traurig (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Greensfelder, Hemker & Gale (STL)
-hall estill Hardwick Gable Golden & Nelson (Tulsa, Oklahoma City) (Resume Collect)
-Hunton & Williams (multiple offices)
-Husch Blackwell (STL)
-Ice Miller (Columbus)
-Kenyon & Kenyon (NY) (Resume Collect)
-Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
-Knobbe, Martens, Olson & Bear (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Latham & Watkins (multiple offices)
-Lathrop & Gage (KC)
-Lewis Rice & Fingersh (STL)
-Lewis Roca Rothgerber (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Locke Lord (Dallas)
-lowndes Drosdick Doster Kantor & Reed (Orlando) (Resume Collect)
-Maslon Edelman Borman & Brand (Minneapolis) (Resume Collect)
-Mayer Brown (DC) (Resume Collect)
-McAndrews, Held & Malloy (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-mcguirewoods (multiple offices)
-Monsanto (STL)
-Morris, Nichols, Arsht & Tunnell (Wilmington) (Resume Collect)
-Morrison & Foerster (multiple offices)
-Norton Rose Fulbright (STL) (Dallas, Houston - Resume Collect)
-Perkins Coie (Chicago)
-Polsinelli (STL)
-Proskauer Rose (LA) (Resume Collect)
-Ropes & Gray (multiple offices)
-Sandberg, Phoenix & von Gontard (STL)
-Schiff Hardin (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Seigfreid Bingham (KC)
-Senniger, Powers (STL)
-Shook, Hardy & Bacon (KC)
-Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (multiple offices)
-Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, & Flom (Hong Kong, Tokyo) (Resume Collect)
-Snell & Wilmer (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Spencer, Fane, Britt & Brown (KC)
-Stinson Leonard Street (multiple offices)
-Taft, Stettinius & Hollister (multiple offices)
-The Procter & Gamble Company (Cincinnati) (Resume Collect)
-Thompson & Knight (Dallas)
-Thompson Coburn (multiple offices)
-Thompson Hine (multiple offices)
-Vedder Price (Chicago) (Resume Collect)
-Vinson & Elkins (multiple offices)
-Vorys, Sater, Seymour & Pease (Columbus) (Resume Collect)
-Whyte Hirschboeck Dudek (Milwaukee, Madison) (Resume Collect)
-Wiggin & Dana (New Haven) (Resume Collect)
-Willkie Farr & Gallagher (DC) (Resume Collect)
-WilmerHale (DC) (Resume Collect)
-Winston & Strawn (Chicago)

TX Walk Around:
-Arnold & Porter (Houston)
-Baker Botts (Houston)
-Beck Redden (Houston, Austin) (Resume Collect)
-Hogan Lovells (multiple offices)
-Jackson Walker (multiple offices) (Resume Collect)
-Jones Day (Dallas, Houston)
-Kirkland & Ellis (Houston)
-Norton Rose Fulbright (Houston, Dallas)
-Paul Hastings (Houston)
-Sidley Austin (Dallas)
-Winstead (Dallas)

Seattle Walk Around:
-Davis Wright Tremaine (Seattle, Portland)
-Miller Nash Graham & Dunn (Portland)
-Perkin Coie (Seattle)

OCI Session 1:
-Dykema Cox Smith (San Antonio, Dallas) (Resume Collect)
-HeplerBroom (STL, Edwardsville)
-KPMG (STL)
-Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe (DC) (Resume Collect)
-Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia (DC)

OCI Session 2:
-Deloitte (STL)
-Mathis, Marifian & Richter (Belleville)

[hoos89]

That's more or less on par with previous years (~40 coming on campus). I also wouldn't be surprised to see a few late adds. MoFo and Ropes coming is interesting. Haven't seen that before.

[chuckbass]

That's more or less on par with previous years (~40 coming on campus). I also wouldn't be surprised to see a few late adds. MoFo and Ropes coming is interesting. Haven't seen that before.

The NYC list isn't up yet, but to me it just looks like there are way too many resume collections and not enough actual interviews.

[hoos89]

That's how it always is. Also the NYC list will be on two separate simplicity websites (SEMW and Midwest-Cali).