Boalt 1Ls taking questions

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Sav
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Sav » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:21 pm

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Last edited by Sav on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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contrapositive1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby contrapositive1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:48 pm

is boalt liberal

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:52 pm

contrapositive1 wrote:is boalt liberal


Not enough.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:10 am

Tanicius wrote:
contrapositive1 wrote:is boalt liberal


Not enough.


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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:19 am

Not budging.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:22 am

The few conservative people I know get eviscerated but their peers in classroom discussions everyday, so I'm not sure how much more liberal the place could be. It's probably the most liberal school in the top ten.

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:28 am

Kronk wrote:The few conservative people I know get eviscerated but their peers in classroom discussions everyday, so I'm not sure how much more liberal the place could be. It's probably the most liberal school in the top ten.


That doesn't mean much. It could be one of the most liberal of all law schools period and that still wouldn't make it that liberal.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:35 am

Tanicius wrote:
Kronk wrote:The few conservative people I know get eviscerated but their peers in classroom discussions everyday, so I'm not sure how much more liberal the place could be. It's probably the most liberal school in the top ten.


That doesn't mean much. It could be one of the most liberal of all law schools period and that still wouldn't make it that liberal.


Okay. Just saying, law schools are generally considered to be fairly liberal, even the conservative ones (e.g. Chicago). Of the people I know at Boalt, I'd say at least 70% are very liberal, and the other 30% are either moderate or I don't know their political beliefs. Unless by "not [liberal] enough" you mean that Boalt isn't 100% liberal, I'm pretty surprised to hear any student here say it isn't liberal enough.

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:42 am

I think there's a lot more to a school's culture than its student body demographic. The curriculum is hardly any different from anywhere else, and our typical career tracks don't exactly encourage liberal policy.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:47 am

Tanicius wrote:I think there's a lot more a school's culture than its student body demographic. The curriculum is hardly any different from anywhere else, and our typical career tracks don't exactly encourage liberal policy.


I see what you're saying. I really disagree though, if you want liberal curriculum, it's more available here than elsewhere. For instance, Professor Frampton's Restorative Justice class (according to her) came about after a group of students demanded it from administration. Restorative Justice is pretty dang liberal. There might be law schools that teach it now, but I think Boalt was one of the very first, nine years ago, to push for that alternative curriculum. We're also have a pretty heavy environmental / energy course load and if you have taken any of them, the liberal slant is very apparent. Our core curriculum isn't necessarily liberal, I guess, but pretty much every semester I've been in classes with extreme liberal angles, from Advanced Civil Rights to Energy Regulation to Restorative Justice, etc. Maybe it depends a bit on whether or not you seek out the courses that would be with professors and students that share those viewpoints.

Boalt is also well-known for public interest and government placement, we have Edley Grants which I think encourage non-profit and government work moreso than most T14s (NYU has a great program too), and the city / area is famously liberal.

matrim
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:37 pm

What about the community around Berkeley? Are all the surrounding areas intensely liberal or are there any more conservative pockets not too far from the school? Do you know of any very conservative classmates…what kind of experience has Boalt been for them? Do they get worse grades on exams for having a more conservative analysis and understanding etc. – or does it have less of an impact then one might think? Thanks!

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:07 pm

matrim wrote:What about the community around Berkeley? Are all the surrounding areas intensely liberal or are there any more conservative pockets not too far from the school? Do you know of any very conservative classmates…what kind of experience has Boalt been for them? Do they get worse grades on exams for having a more conservative analysis and understanding etc. – or does it have less of an impact then one might think? Thanks!


Berkeley and Oakland are famously liberal, going back to the Civil Rights protests in the mid 1900s. San Francisco is pretty liberal as well, obviously. California in general is just a liberal state. But the answer is that no one would give you worse grades for being conservative. Most of the time that kind of thing wouldn't come up on an exam but a professor would never give you a worse grade for it, IMO. I don't know exact pockets of conservatism because I don't seek them out, but there are definitely pockets of students I know that are conservative and I believe their time at Boalt as been very good. They're supported by the faculty, they're supported by the administration, and their viewpoints are respected.

For example, here is a student group: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/5872.htm. They put on lots of events and debates, for example JOHN YOO vs. DA LIBRULS on current SCOTUS issues, etc.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Kronk wrote:
matrim wrote:What about the community around Berkeley? Are all the surrounding areas intensely liberal or are there any more conservative pockets not too far from the school? Do you know of any very conservative classmates…what kind of experience has Boalt been for them? Do they get worse grades on exams for having a more conservative analysis and understanding etc. – or does it have less of an impact then one might think? Thanks!


Berkeley and Oakland are famously liberal, going back to the Civil Rights protests in the mid 1900s. San Francisco is pretty liberal as well, obviously. California in general is just a liberal state. But the answer is that no one would give you worse grades for being conservative. Most of the time that kind of thing wouldn't come up on an exam but a professor would never give you a worse grade for it, IMO. I don't know exact pockets of conservatism because I don't seek them out, but there are definitely pockets of students I know that are conservative and I believe their time at Boalt as been very good. They're supported by the faculty, they're supported by the administration, and their viewpoints are respected.

For example, here is a student group: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/5872.htm. They put on lots of events and debates, for example JOHN YOO vs. DA LIBRULS on current SCOTUS issues, etc.


Thanks Kronk! I really appreciate (and the link to Boalt Fed. Site) As I get closer to making final decisions on where to attend , this type of question seems important. I understand law school in general is a more liberal crowd, but I don’t want to immerse myself and family (older applicant) in a place where we will be miserable for three years because of heavy liberal community. Additionally, I don’t want to have profs who hate me either, and the whole protesting marine recruiters etc. just doesn’t sit well with me. But you seem to shed a different light that suggests maybe conservatives can find a home at Boalt…thanks again.

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Redamon1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Redamon1 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:55 pm

matrim wrote:
Kronk wrote:
matrim wrote:What about the community around Berkeley? Are all the surrounding areas intensely liberal or are there any more conservative pockets not too far from the school? Do you know of any very conservative classmates…what kind of experience has Boalt been for them? Do they get worse grades on exams for having a more conservative analysis and understanding etc. – or does it have less of an impact then one might think? Thanks!


Berkeley and Oakland are famously liberal, going back to the Civil Rights protests in the mid 1900s. San Francisco is pretty liberal as well, obviously. California in general is just a liberal state. But the answer is that no one would give you worse grades for being conservative. Most of the time that kind of thing wouldn't come up on an exam but a professor would never give you a worse grade for it, IMO. I don't know exact pockets of conservatism because I don't seek them out, but there are definitely pockets of students I know that are conservative and I believe their time at Boalt as been very good. They're supported by the faculty, they're supported by the administration, and their viewpoints are respected.

For example, here is a student group: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/5872.htm. They put on lots of events and debates, for example JOHN YOO vs. DA LIBRULS on current SCOTUS issues, etc.


Thanks Kronk! I really appreciate (and the link to Boalt Fed. Site) As I get closer to making final decisions on where to attend , this type of question seems important. I understand law school in general is a more liberal crowd, but I don’t want to immerse myself and family (older applicant) in a place where we will be miserable for three years because of heavy liberal community. Additionally, I don’t want to have profs who hate me either, and the whole protesting marine recruiters etc. just doesn’t sit well with me. But you seem to shed a different light that suggests maybe conservatives can find a home at Boalt…thanks again.


I agree with Kronk. I'm personally on the moderate/liberal side. I haven't specifically sought out the conservative groups, though I attend the events they sponsor when I can. I know some students that are more conservative and they seem to be doing fine. Importantly, in my mind Boalt is less of a liberal bastion than it is a place of mutual respect. Faculty and staff put an emphasis on appreciating and respecting a diversity of perspectives, and the school brings in students that understand that. That means of course trying to bring in the voices of marginalized communities and more liberal voices, but also reflecting and respecting the conservative viewpoint. My experience so far has been that you can make your law school experience what you want it to be. Engage heavily in the student groups of various leanings/affiliations, or not. Air your political views, or not. I also agree that there usually isn't much room to showcase your political leanings in an exam anyway, but to the extent there is, it is not my impression that Professors would give you a hard time for it. On the contrary, you're taught to understand that there are always several sides to a story -- and you'll get more credit if you can put forward a perspective that other students missed.

matrim
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby matrim » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:08 pm

Redamon, appreciate your take on it. Its good to get insider perspective on Boalt versus what I have heard. No doubt it is one of the best schools out there - just trying to get a "real" understanding before making my choice. Thanks.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:27 pm

matrim wrote:Redamon, appreciate your take on it. Its good to get insider perspective on Boalt versus what I have heard. No doubt it is one of the best schools out there - just trying to get a "real" understanding before making my choice. Thanks.

Just sent you a PM. But I wanted to provide a briefer reply for others who may have similar questions. In short, Kronk and Redamom are 100% correct. I am former military and started when the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were much more contentious. However, everyone--to a person--treated me with nothing but respect. There are some townies still living the 60s/70s but in general as you move away from campus and Shattuck, it's just like any other town.

There are good reasons to go elsewhere. This is simply not one of them.

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sinfiery
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sinfiery » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:39 pm

Anyone here know what you can expect to get as far as the boalt grant is concerned if your EFC on FAFSA is 0?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:51 pm

sinfiery wrote:Anyone here know what you can expect to get as far as the boalt grant is concerned if your EFC on FAFSA is 0?



I got zero.

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sinfiery
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sinfiery » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:04 am

Ahh, thanks. They really don't care at all.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:09 am

Are there a lot of students at Boalt that went to Cal for UG? My friend was actually saying that going to Cal for UG will actually will hurt my chances for LS. Is this true or is he bullshitting me? He said they like to get "new" students from different regions, which does kinda make sense.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:57 am

BerkeleyBear wrote:Are there a lot of students at Boalt that went to Cal for UG? My friend was actually saying that going to Cal for UG will actually will hurt my chances for LS. Is this true or is he bullshitting me? He said they like to get "new" students from different regions, which does kinda make sense.


There are a lot, but I have no idea how it affects admissions.

DreamShake
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby DreamShake » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:04 am

sinfiery wrote:Anyone here know what you can expect to get as far as the boalt grant is concerned if your EFC on FAFSA is 0?


I think I got a few thousand ($<5k) for 1L and zero for 2L. I think the discrepancy is explained by when I applied for financial aid (very early in the first case and somewhat late in the second).

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canon
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby canon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:46 am

Redamon1 wrote:
matrim wrote:
Kronk wrote:
matrim wrote:What about the community around Berkeley? Are all the surrounding areas intensely liberal or are there any more conservative pockets not too far from the school? Do you know of any very conservative classmates…what kind of experience has Boalt been for them? Do they get worse grades on exams for having a more conservative analysis and understanding etc. – or does it have less of an impact then one might think? Thanks!


Berkeley and Oakland are famously liberal, going back to the Civil Rights protests in the mid 1900s. San Francisco is pretty liberal as well, obviously. California in general is just a liberal state. But the answer is that no one would give you worse grades for being conservative. Most of the time that kind of thing wouldn't come up on an exam but a professor would never give you a worse grade for it, IMO. I don't know exact pockets of conservatism because I don't seek them out, but there are definitely pockets of students I know that are conservative and I believe their time at Boalt as been very good. They're supported by the faculty, they're supported by the administration, and their viewpoints are respected.

For example, here is a student group: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/5872.htm. They put on lots of events and debates, for example JOHN YOO vs. DA LIBRULS on current SCOTUS issues, etc.


Thanks Kronk! I really appreciate (and the link to Boalt Fed. Site) As I get closer to making final decisions on where to attend , this type of question seems important. I understand law school in general is a more liberal crowd, but I don’t want to immerse myself and family (older applicant) in a place where we will be miserable for three years because of heavy liberal community. Additionally, I don’t want to have profs who hate me either, and the whole protesting marine recruiters etc. just doesn’t sit well with me. But you seem to shed a different light that suggests maybe conservatives can find a home at Boalt…thanks again.


I agree with Kronk. I'm personally on the moderate/liberal side. I haven't specifically sought out the conservative groups, though I attend the events they sponsor when I can. I know some students that are more conservative and they seem to be doing fine. Importantly, in my mind Boalt is less of a liberal bastion than it is a place of mutual respect. Faculty and staff put an emphasis on appreciating and respecting a diversity of perspectives, and the school brings in students that understand that. That means of course trying to bring in the voices of marginalized communities and more liberal voices, but also reflecting and respecting the conservative viewpoint. My experience so far has been that you can make your law school experience what you want it to be. Engage heavily in the student groups of various leanings/affiliations, or not. Air your political views, or not. I also agree that there usually isn't much room to showcase your political leanings in an exam anyway, but to the extent there is, it is not my impression that Professors would give you a hard time for it. On the contrary, you're taught to understand that there are always several sides to a story -- and you'll get more credit if you can put forward a perspective that other students missed.


All of this talk about mutual respect is smoke and mirrors. Know this: if you're going to Berkeley, you are going to be surrounded by the most liberal people you've met in your life. You are going to school 20 minutes from one of the most liberal cities on the West Coast, let alone the fact that you'll likely be living in Berkeley itself -- we're talking gushing heart liberals. You will not be vilified (at least to your face), but there is unmistakably a dearth of conservative scholarship here. Yoo (who is an absolute treasure of a professor) and maybe Cooter (idk much), at least to my knowledge, are the sole exceptions. With Dean Edley at the helm and the Boalt student community's undying commitment to "progressive" issues -- you will be hard-pressed to find a rich dialogue here with professors or your peers. Boalt breeds blue lawyers because there is nothing red about this place.

The problem: conservatives are too scared to speak up. I can count on one hand how many people I know personally who hold conservative views -- and I'm "conservative." I'm not even really conservative -- I'm a moderate, but compared to everyone else I'm probably Sean Hannity. I don't doubt that there are many others who think like me, but they just don't speak up in class.

THAT SAID, I am seriously so happy I go to Boalt because politics aside, the people are amazing and I am having (another) time of my life here. I cannot imagine going anywhere else, sitting on the steps reading or having a picnic during the middle of the day with friends in January and February with a light jacket because it's 60+ and not a cloud in the sky. 2L feels like undergrad to me, and I'm not even a "slacker" student by any standard in my class. There are more things to life than politics anyway ...

Weather, grade system, job prospects, community, atmosphere, food >>>>>>> hyper-liberal atmosphere.

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canon
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby canon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:56 am

Kronk wrote:
BerkeleyBear wrote:Are there a lot of students at Boalt that went to Cal for UG? My friend was actually saying that going to Cal for UG will actually will hurt my chances for LS. Is this true or is he bullshitting me? He said they like to get "new" students from different regions, which does kinda make sense.


There are a lot, but I have no idea how it affects admissions.


Myth. You'll be fine.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:05 pm

canon wrote:All of this talk about mutual respect is smoke and mirrors. Know this: if you're going to Berkeley, you are going to be surrounded by the most liberal people you've met in your life. You are going to school 20 minutes from one of the most liberal cities on the West Coast, let alone the fact that you'll likely be living in Berkeley itself -- we're talking gushing heart liberals. You will not be vilified (at least to your face), but there is unmistakably a dearth of conservative scholarship here. Yoo (who is an absolute treasure of a professor) and maybe Cooter (idk much), at least to my knowledge, are the sole exceptions. With Dean Edley at the helm and the Boalt student community's undying commitment to "progressive" issues -- you will be hard-pressed to find a rich dialogue here with professors or your peers. Boalt breeds blue lawyers because there is nothing red about this place.

The problem: conservatives are too scared to speak up. I can count on one hand how many people I know personally who hold conservative views -- and I'm "conservative." I'm not even really conservative -- I'm a moderate, but compared to everyone else I'm probably Sean Hannity. I don't doubt that there are many others who think like me, but they just don't speak up in class.

THAT SAID, I am seriously so happy I go to Boalt because politics aside, the people are amazing and I am having (another) time of my life here. I cannot imagine going anywhere else, sitting on the steps reading or having a picnic during the middle of the day with friends in January and February with a light jacket because it's 60+ and not a cloud in the sky. 2L feels like undergrad to me, and I'm not even a "slacker" student by any standard in my class. There are more things to life than politics anyway ...

Weather, grade system, job prospects, community, atmosphere, food >>>>>>> hyper-liberal atmosphere.
Just because your experience is different doesn't mean others' advice is "smoke and mirrors". Yes it is liberal. What law school worth the tuition isn't? Are there people with extreme views? Sure. But some of them became my best LS friends.

And don't make it out like Berkeley is some sort of mega-liberal amusement park! Get 3-4 blocks from campus and downtown/Shattuck and the town is just a town. If you don't want to support the co-op vegetarian-only pizza place (Cheeseboard) because they are communist, don't. But you'll be missing out on a fabulous pie. There are plenty of other places to go.

To my knowledge, no one has said that there is a wealth of conservative scholarship there. I'm sorry you and your handful of conservative friends are afraid to speak up. Dean Tom brings in people with diverse views for a reason. They want people to engage. They want different views expressed in class. If you perceive a lack of "rich dialogue" perhaps it's your hesitance and not the school.




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