Boalt 1Ls taking questions

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sokomofo
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sokomofo » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:46 am

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Last edited by sokomofo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tyler.durden
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby tyler.durden » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Great info kronk, kiwi, and dreamshake thanks a lot!

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SemperLegal
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby SemperLegal » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:58 pm

Facebook wrote:Hi, sorry if the question doesn't fit well here, but this forum is the closest I can find in terms of appropriateness.

I'm a 1L from your beloved rival school across the bay, and this quarter I'm taking a class taught by a visiting professor from Boalt. Is anybody willing to help me find previous outlines and past exams for this professor's class? If so, PM me. I would greatly appreciate it. And needless to say, I will gladly reciprocate the favor in the future should such a chance arise.


Sure, PM me and I will do what I can.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:24 pm

sokomofo wrote:
Kronk wrote:It's not like you guys can't get New York from Berkeley. In fact, California jobs are so much fewer than those in NY that I think even Boalt students are probably more likely to get a job in NYC than SF.

But yes, there are certainly people who wanted firm jobs and didn't get anything. I don't know if it's worse than @ NYU. I thought the employment stats were pretty similar. I would say that most of those people probably didn't bid NYC, and most people that did bid NYC got at least something. But there are a lot of people that wanted CA and struck out in CA and a lot of people that struck out totally. IDK, it's just the state of things these days. I am guessing there are a handful of people at both schools that struck out.


wow there is "a lot of people"? i knew that the market was in the shitter but damn.. do you know roughly what percentage of your class struck out completely?


DreamShake is correct IMO so you should refer to his / her post. A handful of people. I know about 8 or so personally, and I figure that I am only really familiar with about 1/3 of our class, so I roughly would guess there were probably three times that or a little more that didn't get it and did OCI.

I do think there are usually reasons, even if they are dumb reasons. Just dumb stuff like, don't wear flashy ties and vests to OCI interviews, don't bid entirely on small, 3-5 person SA classes, don't bid all in SF and LA because the markets are small, etc. I think that even people with all Ps or almost all Ps can definitely find work if they approach it correctly. I don't think people strike out here without at least making a couple missteps, at least for the most part. I would consider employment prospects here very good.

sokomofo
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sokomofo » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:32 pm

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Last edited by sokomofo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 pm

sokomofo wrote:i see. thanks kronk! :)

forgive my 0L ignorance, but how does "bidding" work? is it just sending your grades/resume/cover letter? if so, is there a limit to how many you can bid? cuz im wondering why people wouldnt just send out resumes to every law firm in every region theyre interested in (to maximize their employment chances). i see the word "mass mailing" thrown out here and there on these forums, but maybe thats different from OCI bidding?


People do mass mail law firms, definitely. But for OCI, 300 or so firms come specifically to the school. So when I talk about OCI I am just talking about that one week interview period. Generally if a firm is going to come to OCI a student's school, people don't include them in their mass mailings. Bidding during OCI means each firm has 20-40 interview slots or so, and everyone "bids" on the interview slots to get one. You list preferences, basically. The system tries to give all students their first choice, but those that don't get their first choice get their second choice, and on down the line. Essentially, the higher you have a firm ranked on your bid list, the more likely you are to get a screening interview with them. In mass mailing, you aren't guaranteed a screening interview at all. So OCI is a good way to already have your foot in the door. Certain firms (like MoFo SF) are very popular, and you would need to bid them in your top three or so to get an interview, probably. Others are in less demand and might even have open slots after the process is through. However, even if you don't get an interview through the normal OCI process, many firms have receptions where you can meet attorneys and recruiters and give them your resume--sometimes they will schedule and impromtu screener that way. I got two or three extra interviews that way. Some people got even more.

You can generally sign up for 20 (I think) interviews at first, and once they see if there are openings left, you can get more. Some people had over thirty that week. Also, some schools don't do bidding this way so this is Boalt-specific. Lower-ranked schools let employers decide who to interview, and other schools have other systems for determining interviews.

sokomofo
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sokomofo » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:09 pm

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Kiwi917
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kiwi917 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:18 pm

sokomofo wrote:wow i see. thanks kiwi and dreamshake! these are all very helpful.

this is probably a stupid question, but how hard is it get H's? working hard probably doesnt always translate to good grades in law school.. do people end up with median-ish/below median grades from slacking off?

and those who strike out for biglaw - are they still able to get *some* firm jobs? meaning mid/small law firms


No problem! This thread was helpful to me when I was deciding.

As for your question about H's, it's probably one of the hardest things to predict, especially about first semester 1L. I know a few people who said they worked much harder than they ever had to in undergrad (including at top schools in tough fields) and ended up with most or all P's, but that seems to be the exception rather than the norm. I don't know as much about those on the other end of the spectrum - people are obviously more likely to commiserate with friends about working hard and still getting a P than they are to admit they slacked off and deserved it, or brag about how easy it was to get an HH (and most don't talk about grades at all). Some also see a big difference between first and second semester, since a lot of first semester is figuring out how to study and take exams, which really clicks for some people in the spring. Personally, I took the approach that I would treat school like a full-time job (with some overtime), since I worked for a few years before school and wanted to make the transition as smoothly as possible. I keep a pretty consistent schedule of going to every class and doing all the reading, combined with not pulling a lot of all-nighters or going out much during the week, and it has worked out fine so far. Everyone has their own style, though, and it just takes a little while to figure out what routine works best for you.

One helpful suggestion I got from a 2L is that if you are worried about grades, really try to take it easy with extracurriculars first semester. You can always join more later, but it's easy to fall into the trap of signing up for every interesting thing that Boalt offers (there are a ton) and ending up overwhelmed mid-semester. Being on one journal or doing a SLIP (1L clinic) is good, but doing multiple journals plus SLIPs and/or other clubs isn't going to make you a more attractive applicant if your grades suffer as a result. Especially if you are shooting for firm jobs, your grades are more important. Also talk to 2Ls and 3Ls about how much work different activities involve, since it can vary a lot. If you find out you are a superstar and can do it all, that's what second semester is for...

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venus
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby venus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:56 am

Wow you guys are pretty helpful! Thanks for all the info!

DreamShake
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby DreamShake » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:32 am

sokomofo wrote:wow i see. thanks kiwi and dreamshake! these are all very helpful.

this is probably a stupid question, but how hard is it get H's? working hard probably doesnt always translate to good grades in law school.. do people end up with median-ish/below median grades from slacking off?

and those who strike out for biglaw - are they still able to get *some* firm jobs? meaning mid/small law firms


It's really hard to predict. As kiwi said, some people bust their asses and still end up with P's. Others are substantially less committed but still end up with some H's/HH's. And as you asked, some do indeed get P's from slacking. Generally, you need to pay enough attention/read enough to at least have some understanding of the black letter law; without that, you can't identify the relevant issues and argue them. If you're at B, you are quite capable of learning the BLL. But that alone will probably only get you to a P. Getting an H/HH hinges on how well you apply the BLL by identifying issues & arguing positions. I guess the best way to have some idea of how well you do this is by having a prof go over a practice exam with you, but this obviously isn't possible ahead of time. GPA/LSAT has some predictive value, but it's certainly doesn't preordain anything.

Ultimately, if you're accepted to B, I'd wager you're capable of attaining at least H's, because you have the capacity to learn BLL and the capacity to learn the requisite exam-taking skills, assuming you're not a natural issue spotting whiz. Of course, learning those skills can take time & practice, so you might not start nailing H's till later in law school.

I'm not sure about mid/small firms--their hiring season is just starting, so I'm not sure how classmates are faring on that front.

EvelynS
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby EvelynS » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:21 pm

Hi current 2Ls and 3Ls,

I am a 1L trying to figure out the whole summer internship application process. Does anyone have suggestions on how to write a follow-up cover letter with an unofficial transcript? Most judges prefer it to be sent via regular mail, so I need to enclose a some kind of cover letter along with the transcript.

Thank you in advance!

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:48 am

I'D LIKE TO REMIND EVERYONE READING WHO HASN'T ALREADY TO JOIN THE BALES INTRAMURAL MOCK TRIAL COMPETITION. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED EMAIL BALESCOMPETITION2013@GMAIL.COM.

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helix23
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby helix23 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:50 am

Starting to lean towards B right now.

Sorry if this has been addressed in this thread, but have we gotten any solid answers on how the matching scholarship mechanism works? Seems simple but the feeling I've gotten from reading on here is that they are pretty stingy. Is it more expedient to try to get them to match a higher dollar amount from a lower T14 or a lower dollar amount from a peer?

Kiwi917
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kiwi917 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:54 pm

helix23 wrote:Starting to lean towards B right now.

Sorry if this has been addressed in this thread, but have we gotten any solid answers on how the matching scholarship mechanism works? Seems simple but the feeling I've gotten from reading on here is that they are pretty stingy. Is it more expedient to try to get them to match a higher dollar amount from a lower T14 or a lower dollar amount from a peer?


I think people are only going to have anecdotal advice on this, aside from the info on the FAQ site (which is fairly helpful), since most people don't talk much about financial stuff. Personally, I found the program to be very generous, and it allowed me to pick Boalt (my first choice) over another offer that I would have had a very hard time refusing. I submitted a fairly high amount from a lower T14 because it was the only eligible offer I received, and it worked out fine. If I had to guess, I would say that what you write in the short statement about why you want to go to Boalt matters much more than which other offer you submit for them to match. I think they want to be convinced that you have really good reasons you want to be at Boalt, and that the scholarship from the other school is the only thing standing in your way. You don't have to say you will attend if you get the match, but if that is true, it's probably worth mentioning. My other guess would be that the strength of the rest of your application matters a fair amount - if you have something unique that they really want to be a part of the incoming class, that would probably help. Feel free to PM me with questions.

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helix23
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby helix23 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:51 pm

Kiwi917 wrote:
helix23 wrote:Starting to lean towards B right now.

Sorry if this has been addressed in this thread, but have we gotten any solid answers on how the matching scholarship mechanism works? Seems simple but the feeling I've gotten from reading on here is that they are pretty stingy. Is it more expedient to try to get them to match a higher dollar amount from a lower T14 or a lower dollar amount from a peer?


I think people are only going to have anecdotal advice on this, aside from the info on the FAQ site (which is fairly helpful), since most people don't talk much about financial stuff. Personally, I found the program to be very generous, and it allowed me to pick Boalt (my first choice) over another offer that I would have had a very hard time refusing. I submitted a fairly high amount from a lower T14 because it was the only eligible offer I received, and it worked out fine. If I had to guess, I would say that what you write in the short statement about why you want to go to Boalt matters much more than which other offer you submit for them to match. I think they want to be convinced that you have really good reasons you want to be at Boalt, and that the scholarship from the other school is the only thing standing in your way. You don't have to say you will attend if you get the match, but if that is true, it's probably worth mentioning. My other guess would be that the strength of the rest of your application matters a fair amount - if you have something unique that they really want to be a part of the incoming class, that would probably help. Feel free to PM me with questions.


That was very helpful. Thank you!

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby twinkletoes16 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:58 pm

Should we wait to submit a matching scholarship offer until we have a few more offers, or submit one that we have right now? I have a decent amount that, if matched, I'd attend berkeley no problem, but if I got more from an even-lower t-14 I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Thoughts?

Kiwi917
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kiwi917 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:07 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:Should we wait to submit a matching scholarship offer until we have a few more offers, or submit one that we have right now? I have a decent amount that, if matched, I'd attend berkeley no problem, but if I got more from an even-lower t-14 I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Thoughts?


My understanding is that awards go out on a rolling basis, so waiting too long would be a bad idea. That said, I don't think you need to rush to submit it on the first day - I'm pretty sure I submitted mine several weeks after the application became available.

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helix23
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby helix23 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:16 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:Should we wait to submit a matching scholarship offer until we have a few more offers, or submit one that we have right now? I have a decent amount that, if matched, I'd attend berkeley no problem, but if I got more from an even-lower t-14 I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Thoughts?


We're not allowed to submit until Feb 1 right?

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:04 am

Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby twinkletoes16 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:31 am

helix23 wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:Should we wait to submit a matching scholarship offer until we have a few more offers, or submit one that we have right now? I have a decent amount that, if matched, I'd attend berkeley no problem, but if I got more from an even-lower t-14 I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Thoughts?


We're not allowed to submit until Feb 1 right?



Yeah you're right I just looked.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:44 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?


Hm, I don't really know. I do know there are a lot of people still looking for jobs, but most of them are, anecdotally, those who didn't even do OCI because they knew they wanted other types of jobs.

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twinkletoes16
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby twinkletoes16 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:56 am

Kronk wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?


Hm, I don't really know. I do know there are a lot of people still looking for jobs, but most of them are, anecdotally, those who didn't even do OCI because they knew they wanted other types of jobs.



Did you do OCI and land what you wanted? Are you above median? Feel free to not answer or PM if too personal. Just trying to get a feel for how it's looking in the Bay.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:19 pm

twinkletoes16 wrote:
Kronk wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?


Hm, I don't really know. I do know there are a lot of people still looking for jobs, but most of them are, anecdotally, those who didn't even do OCI because they knew they wanted other types of jobs.



Did you do OCI and land what you wanted? Are you above median? Feel free to not answer or PM if too personal. Just trying to get a feel for how it's looking in the Bay.


I did do OCI, I got a few offers from it. I ended up taking one, but later reneged for other reasons. I was above median, probably just around the top 33%, but I know plenty of people that were below the median and got jobs at OCI.

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Ramius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Ramius » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:48 am

Kronk wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?


Hm, I don't really know. I do know there are a lot of people still looking for jobs, but most of them are, anecdotally, those who didn't even do OCI because they knew they wanted other types of jobs.


Super excited to get my acceptance and Boalt definitely jumped up on my personal list! I'm really curious what those other people who aren't doing OCI are searching out? Is it a lot of general PI stuff, academia, or clerkships? Seems like there is a huge range of that "other" field often discussed, but I'm curious what that means for most Boalt students.

Thanks for all of your info, it really is enlightening!

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:40 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
Kronk wrote:
twinkletoes16 wrote:Can anyone speak to how the class below median is doing/what jobs they have lined up/how was OCI?


Hm, I don't really know. I do know there are a lot of people still looking for jobs, but most of them are, anecdotally, those who didn't even do OCI because they knew they wanted other types of jobs.


Super excited to get my acceptance and Boalt definitely jumped up on my personal list! I'm really curious what those other people who aren't doing OCI are searching out? Is it a lot of general PI stuff, academia, or clerkships? Seems like there is a huge range of that "other" field often discussed, but I'm curious what that means for most Boalt students.

Thanks for all of your info, it really is enlightening!


All of the above. I think that most people still do OCI if they plan on clerking though. Most of the people that don't do it are looking for government jobs, non-profit jobs, already have a job lined up somehow (connections or something), or just know they don't want to work for corporate clients even if they plan on applying to smaller, more specialized private practice later.




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